Liverpool FC Forum

[andy_g]

My prediction - this DNA will turn out to be non-functional.

what do you base that prediction on? its already been seen to be functional...

[Igor Zidane]

The most important question has to be . Does it have a fanny ?

[dawson99]

The most important question has to be . Does it have a fanny ?

Finally someone else on my level 

[fivecups]

My prediction - this DNA will turn out to be non-functional.

what do you base that prediction on? its already been seen to be functional...

No it hasn't. They haven't even demonstrated that arsenate replaces phosphate in the DNA backbone yet. In fact the more I think about that the more improbable (or amazing) it sounds.

Can an element of atomic number 15 simply be replaced by an element of atomic number 33 in a structure as complex as DNA?

What would be truly staggeringly unbelievable would be if the arsenate DNA was functional ie. it could proceed through the cell cycle leading to cell division and normal cellular production of genes which can lead to the production of proteins etc. etc. It seems almost impossible on a chemical, physical or biological level to me.

This one group have shown in one study that the bacteria will grow in a phosphorous environment, but not in an medium deficient in phosphorous and arsenic. The compelling finding is that if you add arsenic the cells grow, albeit slower than under normal conditions. Why? Who knows. They have shown arsenic in the cell cytoplasm and cell nucleus (where the DNA is) and suggested it is bound to oxygen and carbon but as far as I can see much more work is needed to show that it is incorporated in DNA and even more to show that DNA is functional.

This preliminary work needs confirmatory studies and more in depth experiments - with the level of exposure it's received they'll be available very soon.

[Sabre]

So, it's a kind of extremophile?

Andy G knows a lot about this stuff, but it seems it goes beyond that because P was an element that could be founf in any known living thing and other living things not using it and including in it's biochemistry means live could be achieved in so many other ways.

It seems very important news to me!

[andy_g]

the experiments have shown that the cells are able to grow in a culture environment in which they replace phosphorous with arsenic - meaning that the cells divide which means the DNA functions enough to reliably copy itself. of course, we don't know if the organism would remain viable if the phosphorous was completely replaced with arsenic - i guess there are experiments going on now to determine this - but we do know that at the very least a temporarily functional DNA that uses arsenic in part of its structure is functional.

the relative positions of phosphorous and arsenic on the periodic table are exactly why this can work - but paradoxically why it is also deadly for other organisms. arsenic is very very similar to phosphorous and will carry out most of the same reactions. the big difference is that arsenic based reactions are a lot less stable - and that's what makes it such an effective poison. DNA will readily take up arsenic instead of phosphorous but it will cease to function as it will become increasingly unstable. what this organism has somehow managed to do is to counter the instability of the arsenic chemistry and use it.

[Igor Zidane]

Still waiting !!!!!

[andy_g]

sorry igor. lack of fanny has been confirmed.... i repeat, confirmed.

[Bad Bob]

what this organism has somehow managed to do is to counter the instability of the arsenic chemistry and use it.

How long before it evolves sentience and destroys us all, Andy? Not looking forward to becoming some arsenic merchant's bitch.

[Igor Zidane]

sorry igor. lack of fanny has been confirmed.... i repeat, confirmed.

I shall depart this thread then ,as it is goes way over my head . Good luck chaps , i hope it's everything you wished for .

[dawson99]

sorry igor. lack of fanny has been confirmed.... i repeat, confirmed.

I shall depart this thread then ,as it is goes way over my head . Good luck chaps , i hope it's everything you wished for .

Igor, I'll take you to some pubs, I've seen some very bizarre oranisms where fanny is involved if you search hard enough

[fivecups]

but we do know that at the very least a temporarily functional DNA that uses arsenic in part of its structure is functional.

Andy!!

Did you read my post above dude?

That is exactly what we don't know - and what, if proven, would be nothing short of a physical, chemical and biological miracle. This study hasn't even proven that arsenic replaces phosphorous in the DNA backbone nevermind that the arsenic DNA is functional. More in-depth studies and confirmatory studies are required and until then these findings should not be over-interpreted.

[andy_g]

but we do know that at the very least a temporarily functional DNA that uses arsenic in part of its structure is functional.

Andy!!

Did you read my post above dude?

That is exactly what we don't know - and what, if proven, would be nothing short of a physical, chemical and biological miracle. This study hasn't even proven that arsenic replaces phosphorous in the DNA backbone nevermind that the arsenic DNA is functional. More in-depth studies and confirmatory studies are required and until then these findings should not be over-interpreted.

fivecups!!

i did, man 

maybe i'm taking the 'pro' stance here and you the 'anti'... or something . my biochemistry is slightly shakey, i have to admit - but the impression i am getting is that the organism is able to use arsenic to carry out the phosphorous functions in the absence of phosphorous. to me that suggests a DNA that functions using arsenic when necessary. i agree with you that a lot more study is necessary to confirm whether or not this is viable in the long term but i think its fairly certain that we are seeing something that in biological terms - or as far as contemporary biological understanding is concerned - is revolutionary.

[fivecups]

I certainly wouldn't conclude as much as that, but it will be interesting to watch the story unfold.....

[Judge]

sorry igor. lack of fanny has been confirmed.... i repeat, confirmed.

I shall depart this thread then ,as it is goes way over my head . Good luck chaps , i hope it's everything you wished for .

Igor, I'll take you to some pubs, I've seen some very bizarre oranisms where fanny is involved if you search hard enough

lol