Liverpool FC Forum

roberto green wrote:

Scottbot wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:

Dundalk wrote:Fair play to the players out there tonight, they did try their best but we were lacking in quality something serious, we offered nothing going forward. Naturally we were missing Torres but the amount of times we played the ball forward and then had to come back with it again because there wasn't another forward pass on was alarming.

Our bench was like something you would see in League 1 and be that the fault of the manager or the owners its nowhere near good enough for a club like ours. Fair play to Atletico Madrid they came and done what they had to do and for me where the better team. Good luck to Fulham I hope they go on to win it

Worst bench I've seen since...well...possibly since I've started supporting this club. Is it coincidence that the quality of our bench started to decline since the vermin took over? I dare say that any manager with a bit of cash to be able to spend would have a better option than Degen. I mean, come on. Bar Pachecho, that bench comprised of dead wood that shouldn't be anywhere near the first team, when we should really have player of much better quality. I mean, I look at United and Chelsea's bench and they've 20 million pound players in most positions for back up. Back ups!

Course we could have had the likes of Bellamy, Crouch and Keane sitting on our bench tonight.

look no further than the owners for that

Really? Be interesting to hear why you say that?

Scottbot wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:

Dundalk wrote:Fair play to the players out there tonight, they did try their best but we were lacking in quality something serious, we offered nothing going forward. Naturally we were missing Torres but the amount of times we played the ball forward and then had to come back with it again because there wasn't another forward pass on was alarming.

Our bench was like something you would see in League 1 and be that the fault of the manager or the owners its nowhere near good enough for a club like ours. Fair play to Atletico Madrid they came and done what they had to do and for me where the better team. Good luck to Fulham I hope they go on to win it

Worst bench I've seen since...well...possibly since I've started supporting this club. Is it coincidence that the quality of our bench started to decline since the vermin took over? I dare say that any manager with a bit of cash to be able to spend would have a better option than Degen. I mean, come on. Bar Pachecho, that bench comprised of dead wood that shouldn't be anywhere near the first team, when we should really have player of much better quality. I mean, I look at United and Chelsea's bench and they've 20 million pound players in most positions for back up. Back ups!

Course we could have had the likes of Bellamy, Crouch and Keane sitting on our bench tonight.

We would still have Riise but noooo, we signed Dossenna for £8mil???

I can't remember if the Bellamy golf accident was that serious or not, but I just remembered why didn't he bring him on against AC Milan in the 2007 final. Pennant was murdering them first half.

s@int wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:And what about when they had to play Carrick at CB. All teams have injuries, ours just came at a bad time.

Yeah, but they still coped, S@int. That's the difference between the two sides IMO. If we get a few injuries to key players, we can't cope. A few more quality players for us this season in the summer would have made a massive difference to our season IMO. The Yanks just didn't invest and cease on the opportunity to strengthen. Instead they seen our squad weaken and sat back and did nothing about it. You have to remember, we were a team on the brink last season. You'd think they'd show some intent and grant the manager the means to bring in several quality personal. I'm more f*cked off with them than I am with Rafa's errors this season, of which he's made quiet a few. Some, however, were no doubt forced.

I agree mate that a little money could have gone a long way this season, but we spent a fortune on a full back and a injured midfield player when we needed strengthening in other areas. £7 million on a overweight fullback who just wasn't good enough last season meant we went into the season with a fullback made of glass and a young player who's just not ready. Allowing Hyypia to leave meant we had to bring in the Greek, who to be fair isn't bad, but is no Sami. Degen was a mistake again from last year. Falling out with Riera has again cost us, selling Keane left us with N'gog as our reserve striker.

So for me we are paying the price for not only his mistakes this year, but for the mistakes he made last year as well.

We have had injuries, but so do all teams, you have to try to overcome them, but allied to Rafa's mistakes they perhaps became unsurmountable.[/quote]
On the last part mate you have to bear in mind Rafa does a decent job most of the time in recouping funds. It's why his net spend each season is something like 25Mil. In order to raise money he has to sell players, that otherwise could be part of the squad. With that 1 in 1 out system we are never going to build strength in depth mate, all we will do is build a decent first 11 but even the balance of our first team is off at the moment.

PabloAimar wrote:How sh!t was kuyt ...again

Didnt seem fit to me.

Emerald Red wrote:

damjan193 wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:

damjan193 wrote:

bavlondon wrote:

Dundalk wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:

Dundalk wrote:Fair play to the players out there tonight, they did try their best but we were lacking in quality something serious, we offered nothing going forward. Naturally we were missing Torres but the amount of times we played the ball forward and then had to come back with it again because there wasn't another forward pass on was alarming.

Our bench was like something you would see in League 1 and be that the fault of the manager or the owners its nowhere near good enough for a club like ours. Fair play to Atletico Madrid they came and done what they had to do and for me where the better team. Good luck to Fulham I hope they go on to win it

Worst bench I've seen since...well...possibly since I've started supporting this club. Is it coincidence that the quality of our bench started to decline since the vermin took over? I dare say that any manager with a bit of cash to be able to spend would have a better option than Degen. I mean, come on. Bar Pachecho, that bench comprised of dead wood that shouldn't be anywhere near the first team, when we should really have player of much better quality. I mean, I look at United and Chelsea's bench and they've 20 million pound players in most positions for back up. Back ups!

Subs:

Cavalieri, Kyrgiakos, Pacheco, Degen, El Zhar, Ayala, Ngog.


Its just pathetic - I know there were a few injuries but even still

Injuries?What should Arsenal say?

What's Arsenal got anything to do with what DD wrote? Arsenal are another side that needs to wake up. Unless Wenger decides to break the bank, they'll be like us only not as bad. They need a Mascherano. How much would Masch cost them? See, people who are saying spending big money on players doesn't matter. It obviously does. The best cost money. We need the best. Simple as that.

Arsenal had Persi, Eduardo, Fabregas, Ramsey, Arshavin and maybu one or two more injured and we're bitching about a sub, one LB and one striker being out.I know that Torres being out is a big thing, but Arsenal had 3 of their strikers out and still had one to replace them.Not to mention United playing with only one LB.

Lat time I checked, this was a Liverpool forum. So why are you banging on about Arsenal's inury list when the fact is ours earlier in the season were a nightmare. If they do have persistent injuries then agaiin that just emphasises my point of them not spending to replace with adequate depth for them to cope. They are like us last season in that they are just short of quality back-ups for them to make the final push for the title, be it due to injuries or not. I recall them p*ssing away a 2 goal lead not so long ago. They need at least a world class centre back, and a holding midfielder a'la Mascherano to protect their back line.

Arsenal has nothing to threaten on the title with, but that wasnt my point.I was just trying to say that our 3 injuries arent an excuse for our bad bench and line up and our bad results when there are teams with more injuries and still are in a better position than us.

Scottbot wrote:

roberto green wrote:

Scottbot wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:

Dundalk wrote:Fair play to the players out there tonight, they did try their best but we were lacking in quality something serious, we offered nothing going forward. Naturally we were missing Torres but the amount of times we played the ball forward and then had to come back with it again because there wasn't another forward pass on was alarming.

Our bench was like something you would see in League 1 and be that the fault of the manager or the owners its nowhere near good enough for a club like ours. Fair play to Atletico Madrid they came and done what they had to do and for me where the better team. Good luck to Fulham I hope they go on to win it

Worst bench I've seen since...well...possibly since I've started supporting this club. Is it coincidence that the quality of our bench started to decline since the vermin took over? I dare say that any manager with a bit of cash to be able to spend would have a better option than Degen. I mean, come on. Bar Pachecho, that bench comprised of dead wood that shouldn't be anywhere near the first team, when we should really have player of much better quality. I mean, I look at United and Chelsea's bench and they've 20 million pound players in most positions for back up. Back ups!

Course we could have had the likes of Bellamy, Crouch and Keane sitting on our bench tonight.

look no further than the owners for that

Really? Be interesting to hear why you say that?

because all had to be sold to raise money or bring money back into the club, I'm not saying rafa gets off scott free but the reason we have have a bench like we do is simple.

Lack of funds

damjan193 wrote:Arsenal has nothing to threaten on the title with, but that wasnt my point.I was just trying to say that our 3 injuries arent an excuse for our bad bench and line up and our bad results when there are teams with more injuries and still are in a better position than us.

Of course injuries isn't the reason for how poor our bench is. I do, however, cite that a big part of the reason our bench is so poor is lack of investment from the Yanks over three seasons by their drip feeding and systematic bleeding of the club's resources. No investment in this squad has been offered by them in three whole seasons. That is bound to have an effect on any sort of business, and I don't care what argument is put against that.  Even the purchase of Torres had to be funded by the sale of Bellamy, who's days were numbered anyway once he started cracking people with golf clubs. Crouch could have stayed, but spat the dummy for having to sit on the bench and was offered bigger wages by Spurs.

Anyway, I think it's fairly universal in view what needs to be done in the summer, and I don't care who it is that has to spend it so long as money is offered up and spent. You'd think a side that reached two CL finals in three seasons would be given the backing to bring in world class, but no. There are 2 star restaraunts in some sh*thole places that are run better than this club is. Our house needs to be in order first, or we are going nowhere soon.

Scottbot wrote:I disagree completely.

- Crouch fell foul of Benitez during his final season and a half at the club. He simply couldn't get a game. The writing was n the wall when Rafa persisted with Kuyt upfront on his own for 80 minutes and us 1-0 down in the 2007 Champions League final. Crouch finally made it on to the pitch when they scored their 2nd goal. The following season he barely played once we signed Torres, not even when Torres was rested. I don't believe the pressures to raise money were at the forefront of his departure from the club.

- Bellamy, yes the golf club incident had to be a factor but there's no getting away from the fact he was a very dangerous player at Blackburn before we bought him and he is a very dangerous at City since we sold him. Rafa didn't know how to use him. I don't believe the pressures to raise money were at the forefront of his departure from the club.

- Keane, The most bizarre transfer Rafa has made in his time at LFC. Sure the player didn't set the place a light but Rafa's handling of the player was way out of left-field for much of the time. Hauling him off after 60-70 mins when the lad was a hatrick at West Brom, benching the player for the following game springs to mind as one example. I don't believe the pressures to raise money were at the forefront of his departure from the club, more likely the embarrassment of spending so much on the lad in the first place.

What he said.

The argument that he had to sell to raise funds. Raise funds for what? players? then keep the talent you have and swallow your own pride and put the club first.

Why cant the adamant rafa followers accept this? Its always somebody elses fault and rafa is having to scrimp and save and make the best out of what little he has got. Well he has had the players, he has had the money and he has made a sham out of the lot. The lack of quality we have in the team is not down to the owners, its down to rafas preference.

The only person who is happy with the players we have is rafa. The other argument on occasions when we havent performed is its the players fault. To a degree I agree, but then look at the formation and the type of players we have playing in it. Yes the players are to blame for underperforming but take tonight for example, they all worked their socks off but it is blatantly obvious we dont have the players.

We could have had, like scott mentioned, crouch, keane, bellamy, but its rafas single minded "im right" attitude that has cost us.

Ben Patrick wrote:

PabloAimar wrote:How sh!t was kuyt ...again

Didnt seem fit to me.

So why was he playing? He's a waste of space when he IS fit and today just broke up so much of OUR play and contributed NOTHING in 2 hours! Yet this fuker is always the first name on the team sheet. I'm sick of people defending him.

I no longer have any faith in rafa's judgement and wish him the best in departing with dignity this summer.

I'd go as far as saying diouf was a better buy at 10m

Scottbot wrote:

roberto green wrote:Really? Be interesting to hear why you say that?

because all had to be sold to raise money or bring money back into the club, I'm not saying rafa gets off scott free but the reason we have have a bench like we do is simple.

Lack of funds

I disagree completely.

- Crouch fell foul of Benitez during his final season and a half at the club. He simply couldn't get a game. The writing was n the wall when Rafa persisted with Kuyt upfront on his own for 80 minutes and us 1-0 down in the 2007 Champions League final. Crouch finally made it on to the pitch when they scored their 2nd goal. The following season he barely played once we signed Torres, not even when Torres was rested. I don't believe the pressures to raise money were at the forefront of his departure from the club.

- Bellamy, yes the golf club incident had to be a factor but there's no getting away from the fact he was a very dangerous player at Blackburn before we bought him and he is a very dangerous at City since we sold him. Rafa didn't know how to use him. I don't believe the pressures to raise money were at the forefront of his departure from the club.

- Keane, The most bizarre transfer Rafa has made in his time at LFC. Sure the player didn't set the place a light but Rafa's handling of the player was way out of left-field for much of the time. Hauling him off after 60-70 mins when the lad was a hatrick at West Brom, benching the player for the following game springs to mind as one example. I don't believe the pressures to raise money were at the forefront of his departure from the club, more likely the embarrassment of spending so much on the lad in the first place.[/quote]
I understood Crouch reasons, cos he was thinking he won't get in the team with Torres. Torres first season he wasn't getting injured every month.

Maybe management skills was pity poor dealing with Bellamy. After the accident he played awsome against Barca then left him out a week following. Bellamy complained bout being an unused sub in champs league final 2007. Mostly every1 was. Bellamy was sold for funding Torres. Maybe? we never know, but it looks clearly as the new yank owners had no money and we thought they did.

Keane was hot and cold... All strikers are hot or cold. Why sell him in Jan when we was on top by 4,5 points??? When sold, we didn't sign a replacement.

PabloAimar wrote:I'd go as far as saying diouf was a better buy at 10m

You might not be a Kuyt fan but that's dumb comment.