Liverpool FC Forum

[Kukilon]

I think Rafa has handled this matter horrible. Alonso has been a pro and behaved himself like he should and Rafa shouldn't him in the face as thanks.

[Bad Bob]

The sad FACT is though Bob that Masch and Alonso didn't play together for most of those games mate.

  Right you, are, mate.  I didn't have time to check all the line-ups this morning and I forgot that Rafa had his usual give-the-kids-a-go down the stretch.  So, no, they didn't play together as often as I thought.

That said, they did play a few key matches together during that period when we turned it around in March, with the 3-1 win over Bolton and the 4-0 win over West Ham as the highlights.  Maybe not the definitive evidence that they can play together that some require but something that suggests that, at least in a 4-2-3-1, they don't cause the team's play to "severely suffer" (the CL ties against Arsenal and Chelsea, of course, provide further evidence that they can work nicely together as well).

I checked the last 8 league games of the season and Masch and Alonso only started together once ...... we lost 

This bit made me laugh, though, mate.  You make it sound like Rafa had abandoned the partnership because it wasn't working, with the loss as damning proof.  The FACT is, of course, that Masch went and got himself sent off at OT in the first of those 8 games (BTW, is it any wonder that that was the one we lost? ).  As such, he was suspended for the next 3 games while Alonso was helping us see off the Bitters and Blackburn (not to mention Arsenal in the CL).  By the time Masch returned, we were squaring up to Chelsea in the CL with fourth place virtually locked up.  Not surprisingly, Rafa started ringing the changes in the league and Masch and Alonso were rested for many of the remaining fixtures.  I know you acknowledged Masch's suspension in another post, mate, but I couldn't help but notice it's absence in your analysis here.

[Bad Bob]

I find a bit surprising this Alonso-Mascherano incompatibility one, but at least it's a new one.

Listen, I havent said there "incompatible" try not to put words into peoples mouths please, your twisting the arguement by doing that.

Nah, you just said the team "severely suffered" when they played together!

If your playing AC or Chelsea in a cup match and want to keep it tight and solid play them. If your playing run of the meal Prem teams, and are pressing the oppo looking for goals then dont (not in 442/ 4231 Yes 442 NO, cannot make it any clearer).

This I agree with--they wouldn't be my first choice CM pairing in a 4-4-2 against the lesser lights of the Prem either.  Not unless--as Mick keeps suggesting--Xabi pushes further up the pitch and looks to get more directly involved in the attack.

[account deleted by request]

The sad FACT is though Bob that Masch and Alonso didn't play together for most of those games mate.

  Right you, are, mate.  I didn't have time to check all the line-ups this morning and I forgot that Rafa had his usual give-the-kids-a-go down the stretch.  So, no, they didn't play together as often as I thought.

That said, they did play a few key matches together during that period when we turned it around in March, with the 3-1 win over Bolton and the 4-0 win over West Ham as the highlights.  Maybe not the definitive evidence that they can play together that some require but something that suggests that, at least in a 4-2-3-1, they don't cause the team's play to "severely suffer" (the CL ties against Arsenal and Chelsea, of course, provide further evidence that they can work nicely together as well).

I checked the last 8 league games of the season and Masch and Alonso only started together once ...... we lost 

This bit made me laugh, though, mate.  You make it sound like Rafa had abandoned the partnership because it wasn't working, with the loss as damning proof.  The FACT is, of course, that Masch went and got himself sent off at OT in the first of those 8 games (BTW, is it any wonder that that was the one we lost? ).  As such, he was suspended for the next 3 games while Alonso was helping us see off the Bitters and Blackburn (not to mention Arsenal in the CL).  By the time Masch returned, we were squaring up to Chelsea in the CL with fourth place virtually locked up.  Not surprisingly, Rafa started ringing the changes in the league and Masch and Alonso were rested for many of the remaining fixtures.  I know you acknowledged Masch's suspension in another post, mate, but I couldn't help but notice it's absence in your analysis here.

Of course you are right mate, it just seems that a lot of people think we had that good run with Alonso and Masch as the nailed down midfield partnership, when in fact Lucas played there most, with both Gerrard and Plessis featuring there as well.

So much for the no rotation and a settled team being the answer to all our problems  In fact we changed formation, changed players with great frequency, and played without both Gerrard AND Torres during that run. (all frequently used excuses for our earlier problems)

No doubt it was due to CL matches again taking priority in the latter part of the season , but it didn't seem to affect our league form or results too much!

[Bad Bob]

The sad FACT is though Bob that Masch and Alonso didn't play together for most of those games mate.

  Right you, are, mate.  I didn't have time to check all the line-ups this morning and I forgot that Rafa had his usual give-the-kids-a-go down the stretch.  So, no, they didn't play together as often as I thought.

That said, they did play a few key matches together during that period when we turned it around in March, with the 3-1 win over Bolton and the 4-0 win over West Ham as the highlights.  Maybe not the definitive evidence that they can play together that some require but something that suggests that, at least in a 4-2-3-1, they don't cause the team's play to "severely suffer" (the CL ties against Arsenal and Chelsea, of course, provide further evidence that they can work nicely together as well).

I checked the last 8 league games of the season and Masch and Alonso only started together once ...... we lost 

This bit made me laugh, though, mate.  You make it sound like Rafa had abandoned the partnership because it wasn't working, with the loss as damning proof.  The FACT is, of course, that Masch went and got himself sent off at OT in the first of those 8 games (BTW, is it any wonder that that was the one we lost? ).  As such, he was suspended for the next 3 games while Alonso was helping us see off the Bitters and Blackburn (not to mention Arsenal in the CL).  By the time Masch returned, we were squaring up to Chelsea in the CL with fourth place virtually locked up.  Not surprisingly, Rafa started ringing the changes in the league and Masch and Alonso were rested for many of the remaining fixtures.  I know you acknowledged Masch's suspension in another post, mate, but I couldn't help but notice it's absence in your analysis here.

Of course you are right mate, it just seems that a lot of people think we had that good run with Alonso and Masch as the nailed down midfield partnership, when in fact Lucas played there most, with both Gerrard and Plessis featuring there as well.

So much for the no rotation and a settled team being the answer to all our problems  In fact we changed formation, changed players with great frequency, and played without both Gerrard AND Torres during that run. (all frequently used excuses for our earlier problems)

No doubt it was due to CL matches again taking priority in the latter part of the season , but it didn't seem to affect our league form or results too much!

That's put the cat amongst the pigeons!

[sgs]

I think we fans need to trust our manager well enough to support him if he says, from his perspective, that he NEEDS Barry. Afterall he is the one who gets to carry the can! For me, as with many others, I do not understand it, but you gotta trust your manager or make the call for his sack..Its that simple...
Alonso's quality has never been in doubt. Every player of quality brings something different to the team. Right now, Barry's strategic value is greater than the need for Alonso, as the manager sees it!
We need to support him rather than undermine him, and in the process influence the Board not to give him what he wants...

Its very sad....

[zarababe]

Sky reporting that Rafa has not ruled out the sale of Xabi - wonder what is going on ?

[Sabre]

"For me it is not a problem if he stays or not.

Not exactly a vote of confidence for Alonso.  Alonso supposedly wanted to know where he stands....... I guess now he does!

Hardly anything new right?

I mean there's an elite group of players, like Torres or Gerrard, that, no matter what the price is they won't be sold.

Alonso isn't on this category, but Rafa (again) has stated it has to be a very, very good offer in order he goes. We know that offer must be superior to the 14M offered by Juventus. Otherwise, he'll stay. So in my book, no problem, he'll stay, and he'll play, as I struggle to think many players in the squad that have a value superior to those 14M bar Torres, Mascherano, or Gerrard.

If he doesn't go for 14M, and even if he's not under Torres' or Gerrard status, that doesn't mean he won't play regularly or at the same rate he has played so far. I can't read an "Alonso is unwanted" message. That's the message I'd get if he actually sold Alonso on the cheap!

[account deleted by request]

Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez has made it clear Yossi Benayoun and Dirk Kuyt will not be leaving Anfield this summer.

Benitez said on Thursday: "Neither of them will be leaving."
About Yossi :- "I have talked to him and told him I want to keep him. He is a player with quality and has shown that during pre-season.
"I have no more news about Yossi - he will be staying with us. I also talked with Dirk Kuyt this morning. I am really pleased with him and he will be staying with us."

About Alonso :-"For me it is not a problem if he stays or not.


I think you are trying too hard Sabre

[Sabre]

I think I don't have to try hard at all. For instance, what, you highlight "I am really pleased with him", Rafa said something like that the other day, he said he was very happy with him. As Rafa said back then the situation has not changed.

And unless someone comes with a much better offer than 14M (possibly the value of Yossi+Kuyt?) he'll stay with us. He's a true red, and it seems the crowd is happy about he stays, so no problem.

I don't think Alonso needs hugs and praises to live. Just let the season start and let him talk in the pitch.

[puroresu]

I think I don't have to try hard at all. For instance, what, you highlight "I am really pleased with him", Rafa said something like that the other day, he said he was very happy with him. As Rafa said back then the situation has not changed.

And unless someone comes with a much better offer than 14M (possibly the value of Yossi+Kuyt?) he'll stay with us. He's a true red, and it seems the crowd is happy about he stays, so no problem.

I don't think Alonso needs hugs and praises to live. Just let the season start and let him talk in the pitch.

Knowing whether he is coming or going would help?

[account deleted by request]

I think I don't have to try hard at all. For instance, what, you highlight "I am really pleased with him", Rafa said something like that the other day, he said he was very happy with him. As Rafa said back then the situation has not changed.

And unless someone comes with a much better offer than 14M (possibly the value of Yossi+Kuyt?) he'll stay with us. He's a true red, and it seems the crowd is happy about he stays, so no problem.

I don't think Alonso needs hugs and praises to live. Just let the season start and let him talk in the pitch.

I would doubt that very much mate, he supposedly valued Kuyt at £16million (don't laugh!) and Benni has a value of at least £6million, while we seemed to be placing a value on Alonso of around £15-16million (£12million if you believe our Turkish friends    )

I don't doubt he doesn't need hugs an kisses, but its always nice to know you are needed, not just being kept because no one will pay the asking price.

Rafa may as well have echoed the words of a British politician to Neville Chamberlain........“ You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go. ” 

[Toffeehater]

We'll know if xabi does not play next week in the qualifer if he stays or goes , if there is no official word on it than . If he plays than he's here to stay i reckon and if he does not rafa does not want to cup tied him and he's most likely gone

[Number 9]

Seems like a lot on here have a lot of respect and admiration for Xabi,whether its down to sentiment because of how good he has been for us in his first year or two or because hes from San Sebastian(sorry Sabre mate)!
Anyway i feel the respect is justified and can fully understand the applause and showing of respect the other night at Anfield,the crowd showed Xabi they respect him too!

BUT....
I feel he has become too comfortable at LFC over the last couple of years.Its almost as if he has taken the fact he will play often as granted and as a result has lost a bit of hunger and ambition.It may be a little too harsh to say he lacks effort but i would forgive someone for saying it...that may not be too far off the mark.

Im not saying his dip in form has been only down to his mindset.I feel that all managers have caught on to the fact that if you give Xabi space he punishes you and opens teams up.Its no coincedence that he gets hardly any space on the ball anymore and we see very few of his defence splitting long balls.
Thats where I have a problem when he gets closed down quickly i feel he gets rid of the ball to quick,plays a simple pass as opposed to taking players on and making room to do what he does best....spray the ball about.There lies the question,does he have the ability to do this?

Anyway with all due respect and all excuses aside we all know that he is a better player than he has shown regardless of where he has been played it is irrelevant.His performances have not been good enough on a consistant basis and i fail to see how anyone can argue with that!
There is nothing I would like to see more than Xabi staying at LFC and finding his old form.I think now this is possible as the whole Gareth Barry circus has made him realise that nothing is taken for granted in football...least of all at LFC!
Hopefully the fact he was to be sold may have just have been the kick up the @rse he needed to bring him back to form and we can get back the Xabi of old with passion and fire in his belly....lets face it,it would be like signing a new player!
Bottom line is this is LFC and we cant afford passengers if we are to improve as a unit,I feel Xabi has been coasting along in second gear for too long.more effort is needed from him and the whole team in fact.
Some players need to remember who they are playing for and how lucky they are to be here!

[Toffeehater]

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez has refused to rule out the possibility of selling Xabi Alonso.

The Spain international appears to have become the victim of the Reds' continued pursuit of Aston Villa midfielder Gareth Barry.

He has the full support of the Anfield faithful, though, who backed him throughout Friday's friendly against Lazio, while also displaying their opposition towards any move for Barry.

However, Benitez appears to have turned a deaf ear to the views from the terraces, admitting that a suitable offer could yet see him part with a popular member of his squad.
Price

"We knew Alonso was a very good player and as a result he had a good price (on his head). We had offers, but they were not enough so we decided he needed to stay with us," said the Spanish coach.

"It could be that he does stay with us.

"For me it is not a problem if he stays or not. He can stay, we always have felt he is a good player.

"We are only talking about a very, very good price. He is a good player, if he is not going to bring a good price then it is very simple, easy to understand.

"I heard the crowd, obviously. We know now, as we knew before, that he could stay with us."

Possibilities

Benitez needs to sell in order to fund any potential bid for Barry and admits that there are likely to be changes within the Reds camp before the new season gets underway.

"It is not positive that we may not have the players we want here before the Champions League game," he said.

"But the transfer window closes at the end of August, we will try to do our best to bring in the players to improve us by then.

"I try to do the best for my club with the possibilities that you have, I have done this every year since I have been here. And I am trying to do the same for this coming season.

"I do not feel any more pressure, every season is the same. We have a good squad, better than before, but we can improve a little bit more."

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_3955304,00.html