Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

Who is the biggest threat to our title chances? Easy....






Fecking Parry

[Reg]

What is the biggest threat to our title chances? Easy....

'Reality'.

[bigmick]

Harsh Reginald, harsh. If we don't start winning consistently soon though, I'll definately be dusting off my "golden opportunity" theory you can be sure of that.

[mistyred]

That fact that we have no flipping strikers except for Toress

[Reg]

Harsh Reginald, harsh. If we don't start winning consistently soon though, I'll definately be dusting off my "golden opportunity" theory you can be sure of that.

Hi Mick,

What is 'reality'?

Reality is the damage these ownership/receivership renewed rumours create within the club structure which subdue enthusiasm both on and off the pitch.
That damage our until recent clean image as a sustainable business with our banks. 
Reality is the lack of credibility the owners have as being financially sound, of being able to take the business forward.
The implication that funds are not available for the new stadium, nor for Rafa to bring in quality players to create a PL winning squad with strength in depth should 2-3 key players get injured.

Reality is an image, and our image is tarnished, we have been the laughing stock of the media for 2 years. Any outrageous comment can be made now and our absent owners do not respond.
Rafa has worked miracles on the pitch on the whole, without those successes and say we´d come in a consistent 5-6 place, where would the club be today as a business?

Reality is our team is 3rd-4th place material on a par with Citech, Arsenal etc.. however it will be the 'Liverpool spirit' and the 'Rafa factor' that we hope will lift us to first or second. The fans will be disappointed once again if our 3rd-4th place skills value squad dont win the league and they´ll blame the manager.

I´m not trying to be negative or slip into the manic depressive state of some on this forum mate, but the commercial side of our club is sick and has started to dominate the front end, the pitch.

The commercial side is there to support the pitch but at present, the pitch is keeping the commercial side solvent... and the owners, the guardians of the club, are paralysed on all fronts unable to act.

That is reality.

[LFC2007]

Rafa seemingly being refused any funds over and above that which he's recouped in the sales of Alonso & Arbeloa (and possibly Keane), is the most direct evidence yet of the ownership issue having adverse consequences on the playing side of things. To have relatively limited funds is one thing, but to have zero funds is absolutely shocking for a club in our position. Whatever criticisms you may have of Rafa's spending record, he's still signed some excellent players and it's not unreasonable given how close we came last season to expect to have some funds available to absorb and compensate for the loss of Alonso. Whether this will have any effect on our title challenge remains to be seen (in full) but this lack of funding shouldn't have figured as a threat in the first place.

[heimdall]

Reality is also Rafa playing Lucas alongside Mascha, NOT playing Riera, scheduling a series of warm up matches which didn't get us ready.

But hey, Feck Parry   

[heimdall]

Rafa seemingly being refused any funds over and above that which he's recouped in the sales of Alonso & Arbeloa (and possibly Keane), is the most direct evidence yet of the ownership issue having adverse consequences on the playing side of things. To have relatively limited funds is one thing, but to have zero funds is absolutely shocking for a club in our position. Whatever criticisms you may have of Rafa's spending record, he's still signed some excellent players and it's not unreasonable given how close we came last season to expect to have some funds available to absorb and compensate for the loss of Alonso. Whether this will have any effect on our title challenge remains to be seen (in full) but this lack of funding shouldn't have figured as a threat in the first place.

I'm sorry but actually IT IS completely unreasonable to expect funds when the club is so far in the red and we are in the middle of a huge world financial crises, I am very glad they didn't cave in to pressure and take out extra further loans.

FFS the club has no money, where was the transfer pot supposed to come from? Where was Manure's transfer pot, or the chavs, or Arsenal or almost all the premiership clubs with the exception of citeh?

For what it's worth I actually think Rafa spent the money well, and think both Johnson and Aquaman will prove to be very good buys. I just hope we're not out of the running by the time he gets to kick a ball.

[GYBS]

Umm maybe just maybe Reira is still not fully fit after his ankle injury he got during pre season ?!

And no its the wrong warm up matches he arranged ?!? what the hell shall we blame Rafa for next ??

I know lets blame him for Parry being at the club as well and ruining the whole world .


Feckin Rafa

[LFC2007]

FFS the club has no money, where was the transfer pot supposed to come from? Where was Manure's transfer pot, or the chavs, or Arsenal or almost all the premiership clubs with the exception of citeh?

For what it's worth I actually think Rafa spent the money well, and think both Johnson and Aquaman will prove to be very good buys. I just hope we're not out of the running by the time he gets to kick a ball.

I'm sorry but actually IT IS completely unreasonable to expect funds when the club is so far in the red and we are in the middle of a huge world financial crises, I am very glad they didn't cave in to pressure and take out extra further loans.

That's an argument to say they shouldn't have taken over the club in the first place, just as mine was, which is why it's unreasonable to enter a season of such promise without any transfer funds over and above the sale of Alonso (and others). Let's not go down the route of claiming that they're acting reasonably in providing no significant capital themselves - they made commitments and they didn't honour those commitments.

I think it's very likely Ferguson has money at his disposal - they were in for Benzema after all. He doesn't want to spend it either because he's almost entirely happy with what he's already got, or far more likely, because the market's gone haywire and he doesn't like paying well over the odds. Chelsea spent £18m on Zhirkov and have probably signed someone else I can't think of, suffice to say they have had good money to spend over and above what they've sold. Arsenal are the exception and have been for a while. This, in a season when Sunderland and Hull City can afford to pay £10m+ on strikers.

[bigmick]

I think the key visa vis transfer money is if we haven't got any funds, when did we know? It's not quite true to say we haven't spent, we've shelled out 18 million quid on Johnson, 20 million quid on Aquilani and a set of training tops on the Greek bloke. Yes it's money we pulled in for winning the big willy contest, but there's still 40 million quids worth of outlay there.

Now we've lost Alonso and Arbeloa out of the team which came very close to winning the Premiership, which although being a bit of a blow shouldn't mean we're fecked. 40 million quid ought to have been a reasonable sum to repair the damage, leaving a little bit left over for a cover centre half and even a cover striker.

See, I really like the signing of Johnson. I said before we signed him that he's potentially World Class (to hoots of derision obviously) and I haven't seen a thing from him so far which has made me change my mind. The thing is though and this is the crux for me, if we knew that we only had 40 million quid to spend (only ) then we quite possibly couldn't afford him.

Also, almost regardles of how good Aquilani is, given our "cover" it's now looking like a mistake to go with a bloke who'll miss the fist 8 or 9 games of the season. Someone said earlier that nobody mentioned Lucas before the season started, and that's not quite accurate. I did, and I certainly wasn't on my own either.

Equally, some people were banging on about the need for four centre halves before the season started (and you DO need four), it didn't need the injury to Skyrtel to confirm it, nor will it need an injury to Torres to confirm we are short up top.   

So if you were told you only had 40 million quid, you probably wouldn't sign Johnson. If you thought about Lucas as cover, you probably wouldn't sign Aquilani. You'd probably go with a 13 million quid Wesley Sniijderish sort of attacking midfielder, a decentish right back, a Sylvain Distin type centre half and a Tuncayish/Darren Bentish type striker cover. I'm by no means set on the names, but I guess that's where you'd go.

The thing is though I suspect it wasn't like that, and contrary to what the blanket throwers try and tell you I have got sympathy with Rafa on this point. My guess is that the transfer rug was pulled from under him without warning, meaning that the squad ends up looking unbalanced. I think someone who has the owners ear (Purslow perhaps) needs to sit them down and talk to them about the potential disaster financially if we finish outside of the top four. It may sound a bit sensationalist to be talking in those terms, but if we persist with Lucas/Masherano in the centre and/or Torres or Gerrard gets injured, it's a very real possibility I think.

[heimdall]

FFS the club has no money, where was the transfer pot supposed to come from? Where was Manure's transfer pot, or the chavs, or Arsenal or almost all the premiership clubs with the exception of citeh?

For what it's worth I actually think Rafa spent the money well, and think both Johnson and Aquaman will prove to be very good buys. I just hope we're not out of the running by the time he gets to kick a ball.

I'm sorry but actually IT IS completely unreasonable to expect funds when the club is so far in the red and we are in the middle of a huge world financial crises, I am very glad they didn't cave in to pressure and take out extra further loans.

That's an argument to say they shouldn't have taken over the club in the first place, just as mine was, which is why it's unreasonable to enter a season of such promise without any transfer funds over and above the sale of Alonso (and others). Let's not go down the route of claiming that they're acting reasonably in providing no significant capital themselves - they made commitments and they didn't honour those commitments.

I think it's very likely Ferguson has money at his disposal - they were in for Benzema after all. He doesn't want to spend it either because he's almost entirely happy with what he's already got, or far more likely, because the market's gone haywire and he doesn't like paying well over the odds. Chelsea spent £18m on Zhirkov and have probably signed someone else I can't think of, suffice to say they have had good money to spend over and above what they've sold. Arsenal are the exception and have been for a while. This, in a season when Sunderland and Hull City can afford to pay £10m+ on strikers.

Why do you think it is likely that Ferguson has money to spend but chooses not to spend it, that makes no sense and is a complete guess from you.

I don't like tw1t and tw@t any more than anybody else but I am relieved that they didn't put the club into even more debt by giving Rafa a transfer pot. Whether they are fit owners is a separate argument and one where I think we would all agree that they aren't, they are liars and cheats who haven't invested a penny but there is no point whining about it all the time. Rafa has in previous season been given a adequate funds, perhaps not quite enough, but a good sum all the same. This year no teams had any transfer funds so no point just singling our owners out for criticism for that.

[LFC2007]

Why do you think it is likely that Ferguson has money to spend but chooses not to spend it, that makes no sense and is a complete guess from you.

It's likely for two reasons. 1) They sold Ronaldo for £80m 2) They were heavily linked with Benzema, I'm fairly certain Ferguson admitted they were in for him, and Benzema has done so himself in the past. Why he chooses not to spend it now, as I've already said; a combination of the difficulty in finding value in the market (Ferguson has himself said this) and the fact he's signed Valencia for £14m and Owen on a free, and he trusts the squad he has. 

I don't like tw1t and tw@t any more than anybody else but I am relieved that they didn't put the club into even more debt by giving Rafa a transfer pot. Whether they are fit owners is a separate argument and one where I think we would all agree that they aren't, they are liars and cheats who haven't invested a penny but there is no point whining about it all the time.

Part of their commitment when taking over the club was to ensure Rafa had all the resources he needed to win trophies, and here we are - or perhaps 'were' - seemingly on the edge of something big, and yet he isn't being backed over and above those he was simply forced to replace. They can't fulfill that commitment because of their financial incompetence, hence they are at fault. To those who say, 'well, Alonso and other sales brought in £36m and he's spent it, therefore that's backing', I say to have to lose your third most important player - perhaps even your best player of the previous season - required at least the amount we recouped from his sale. The money was drawn from existing assets - and one very important one at that, so using those funds cannot constitute 'backing'. Perhaps the contract renewals were, but they're the least a manager should expect for a club of our size - they shouldn't affect the transfer budget, they aint 'transfers'. More to the point, a club with our ambition should be spending more than is simply necessary in order to 'fix' the team post-Alonso; we need some depth and we need to spend to get that depth. This is why I hold the owners responsible.

Rafa has in previous season been given a adequate funds, perhaps not quite enough, but a good sum all the same. This year no teams had any transfer funds so no point just singling our owners out for criticism for that.

Well Sunderland have spent over £20m and are seemingly close to signing Michael Turner. Chelsea spent £18m on Zhirkov and a few million on Sturridge. Spurs spent about £8m on Bassong and about £9m on Crouch, City have spent about £758m. Everton have spent £10m on a new midfielder, and are about to - or already have - signed Distin. They're looking for others, too. Aston Villa have signed Habib Beye, Stephen Warnock, Richard Dunne, Fabian Delph for a combined total of over £15m and are still looking. Stoke City have just shelled out a record £6m on Robert Huth and a further £5m on Tuncay. Hull City almost signed a £12m striker, while Newcastle utd have just spen...  

[aCe']

Well Sunderland have spent over £20m and are seemingly close to signing Michael Turner. Chelsea spent £18m on Zhirkov and a few million on Sturridge. Spurs spent about £8m on Bassong and about £9m on Crouch, City have spent about £758m. Everton have spent £10m on a new midfielder, and are about to - or already have - signed Distin. They're looking for others, too. Aston Villa have signed Habib Beye, Stephen Warnock, Richard Dunne, Fabian Delph for a combined total of over £15m and are still looking. Stoke City have just shelled out a record £6m on Robert Huth and a further £5m on Tuncay. Hull City almost signed a £12m striker, while Newcastle utd have just spen...  

i get your point.. but your argument is a bit incomplete given the fact that WE also spent around 40mill on new players too...

Sunderland.. net spent = 7.5mill
Tottenham.. net spent = 7.5mill
Everton..     net spent = -12mill
Aston Villa.. net spent = 2.0mill

..etc etc

Think Mick makes a good point about us needing to manage what we had to spend a little better if we knew it was all we had to spend...
My take on it is that (like Ferguson in you argument), Rafa thinks what we have is good enough to provide cover... Afterall, the squad today isnt that different to what we had at the end of last season... Major point to me was that we needed to manage what we had a little better..

Knowing that Aquilani wouldnt be fit for a good few months and that we had to play Lucas down the middle, Rafa should have come up with a plan to try and fix that... Perhaps start with Gerrard down the middle or whatever... From the preseason games, it was obvious to many (maybe not Rafa) that the Lucas-Mascherano thing wasnt quite working... As things stand, 3 games into the season and 6 points lost, we find ourselves needing to change things around to try and fix our lack of judgment from earlier on...

Would be like Feguson signing an injured Valencia and asking Park to play the Ronaldo role... Except he didnt do that, he changed the formation and tried to set the side up to match their strengths and not just to fit in his favored formation..

[LFC2007]

i get your point.. but your argument is a bit incomplete given the fact that WE also spent around 40mill on new players too...

Sunderland.. net spent = 7.5mill
Tottenham.. net spent = 7.5mill
Everton..     net spent = -12mill
Aston Villa.. net spent = 2.0mill

..etc etc

Think Mick makes a good point about us needing to manage what we had to spend a little better if we knew it was all we had to spend...
My take on it is that (like Ferguson in you argument), Rafa thinks what we have is good enough to provide cover... Afterall, the squad today isnt that different to what we had at the end of last season... Major point to me was that we needed to manage what we had a little better..

Knowing that Aquilani wouldnt be fit for a good few months and that we had to play Lucas down the middle, Rafa should have come up with a plan to try and fix that... Perhaps start with Gerrard down the middle or whatever... From the preseason games, it was obvious to many (maybe not Rafa) that the Lucas-Mascherano thing wasnt quite working... As things stand, 3 games into the season and 6 points lost, we find ourselves needing to change things around to try and fix our lack of judgment from earlier on...

Would be like Feguson signing an injured Valencia and asking Park to play the Ronaldo role... Except he didnt do that, he changed the formation and tried to set the side up to match their strengths and not just to fit in his favored formation..

I was exaggerating the point, however, those net spend figures don't appear to be correct (tbph, I can't be ersed to look).

I disagree when you say Rafa's happy with what we've got, pleased that he's got Aquilani and Johnson but surely not no so pleased we had to settle for a £1.5m greek bloke, and not so pleased we can't sign another forward player. He would surely have forked out for Turner, or Upson or other instead of Kyrgiakos if indeed further funds were available. That, or we're about to sign someone within the next of 3 days.

The fact that we were in for Tevez (his agent said so, IIRC) suggests that there may be some truth in the suggestions that further money was available, but was at some point removed from the equation. In truth, we're going on scraps, but whatever the case there surely should have been funds over and above the £36m we recouped. I agree about the team setup though.