Liverpool FC Forum

[Teshie]

Totally agree.

If Kuyt and Lucas is guaranteed to get the f*ck out then Rafa can pack his bags.

The love for Lucas on rawk is sickening ffs. Have they been watching a different player than me this season.

A half fit Aqualiani is making Lucas look poor.

it's disgusting. I refuse to read anything to do with lucas on that forum, calling him the heart and soul of the future made me sick

[Owzat]

Y´know, at the end of the day I'd probably keep The Greek and sell Martin to Wolves or someone like that..  I think he's peaked.

Jaysus, sell Skrtel to a team that might pay more than half what we did if we're lucky?!?!? Better off selling him back to the club/league he came from, more likely to offer a better price and know him for the reasons Rafa bought him in the first place

[Owzat]

- Cavalieri
- Aquilani (if we can get our money back I would take it)
- Riera (only because of his comments in the media a few months back)
- Aurelio (if he doesn't accept a one year extension on reduced terms let him leave)
- Babel (just needs to go ASAP and if we can get anything close to 10 million we should take it)
- Lucas
- Spearing
- Degen
- Plessis
- Nemeth
- Itandje
- El Zhar
- Darby
- Skrtel (he wont develop beyond his current level and selling him will raise funds for a better centre back)

I would probably add Kuyt to this list, as this might be the last chance we have to get "real " money for him. He's not getting any younger and after the World cup we may even get a little more for him.

Lucas would be a toss of the coin decision for me, unless someone was willing to pay £10million when the decision would easy 

If I were to consider selling Kuyt it wouldn't be for a season or two yet. He has experience, Andy_g said he isn't nearly as bad as the Kuyt bashers like to make out, and this can often end up being an exercise in them repeating their views, and we do need back-up and not just XI players which seems to be the mentality of a lot on here.

We moan about lack of depth then talk about selling first XI regulars!?!?!? I know a lot is down to individual pet(ty) hates, but you do need options. The team does need a revamp, Johnson and Aquilani haven't quite worked out (yet) for very different reasons and Rafa needs to adapt. That's 1.5 seasons with him thinking we don't need another striker, people bitch about that yet still call for us to sell one of the few experienced (back-up) strikers we have!

In a slight variation on how to say who to sell or keep, I'm going to do mine in level of retention or reverse order of willingness to sell, with level 1 being sell over everybody's dead body and 5 being looking to sell to the point of taking any acceptable bid - that may not be easy re Babel

1 : Agger, Gerrard, Reina, Torres
2 : Benayoun, Kuyt, Carragher, Pacheco
3 : Johnson, N'Gog, Aquilani, Nemeth
4 : Lucas, Mascherano, Insua, Kyrgiakos, Rodriguez, Darby, Kelly, Ayala, Gulacsi
5 : Babel, Aurelio, Itandje, Cavalieri, Skrtel, Degen, Spearing, El Zhar, Riera, Plessis

And for those not already firing up their toy catapulting system from the safety of their prams I'll explain some of those. There are enough 5s that 4s would only really need to be sold if the money was good/right, or we'd end up with no squad or wholesale changes which neither is good, transitition should have happened already not be regularly recurring. Kyrgiakos is getting on, useful back up but only in a short term sense which is why I don't see much point signing anyone much over 30 if at all. Even S@int has decided to sell Kuyt as he's getting on a bit, so why buy someone when so many talk of 30 like it's the new 40.

Babel - might as well sell if he isn't going to be used up front or at all regularly. He has no real end product, pleases a few with his pace but he's a winger/striker, not a sprinter in athletics

Mascherano - I know some of you would suck his d1ck to keep him here, but I think we need to be more attacking and he is a good player that could bring in more £££ than what he adds to the team (in an attacking sense) I'm not saying we should sell, but certainly if someone makes a £25m-£30m bid I'd rather spend it on a striker or quality play-maker than keep Mascherano

Cavalieri - silly buy for me, we could have used Martin or got one of the free keepers doing the rounds. I don't want to tempt a Reina injury, but he is durable and spending much money on keepers is folly.

Skrtel - I was never as impressed with his thug approach to defending as some on here, we can do better.

Johnson - only in category three because he's here and we mightn't be able to get half what we paid for him, unless Citeh make a bid.............................................

Players like Degen and Spearing might as well go and, in the case of Spearing, further their career elsewhere as they're unlikley to break into the first XI and, in Degen's case, if the back-up full-back isn't going to be used when needed then where is the f in point having him? I've put some of the kids in 4 simply because they're getting to make or break time, they either will make more first XI appearances or may as well go because if they don't start now they never will.



And rather than sell lots of players to scrape together a few million and maybe buy another Dossena, why not sell Mascherano, Babel, Skrtel and Riera plus one or two others and look to fetch £30m to £40m for one player considered by some/many/most as key while the rest are not pivotal by any stretch? We could then get one or two player who could be pivotal, of course someone who could get the right money in and right players in to replace those sold would be a key starter.......................................

[LFC_fan]

This is not a wind up or anything but strange that everyone's only looking from the football point of view. If we dont get new owners / investors pronto, the first name that "has to go" is Torres. not just because we need the funds to pay the debts but also we wont have the monies to get players who would make a difference to the first 11. Throw in the lure of champions league football from other teams, and torres himself might be lured over.

[tonyeh]

Wouldn't sell Johnson. But I'd certainly move forward him onto the wing. Liverpool have been crying out for a decent RM for years and I think there's potential for Johnson in that area.

[SouthCoastShankly]

- Cavalieri
- Aquilani (if we can get our money back I would take it)
- Riera (only because of his comments in the media a few months back)
- Aurelio (if he doesn't accept a one year extension on reduced terms let him leave)
- Babel (just needs to go ASAP and if we can get anything close to 10 million we should take it)
- Lucas
- Spearing
- Degen
- Plessis
- Nemeth
- Itandje
- El Zhar
- Darby
- Skrtel (he wont develop beyond his current level and selling him will raise funds for a better centre back)

I would probably add Kuyt to this list, as this might be the last chance we have to get "real " money for him. He's not getting any younger and after the World cup we may even get a little more for him.

Lucas would be a toss of the coin decision for me, unless someone was willing to pay £10million when the decision would easy 

If I were to consider selling Kuyt it wouldn't be for a season or two yet. He has experience, Andy_g said he isn't nearly as bad as the Kuyt bashers like to make out, and this can often end up being an exercise in them repeating their views, and we do need back-up and not just XI players which seems to be the mentality of a lot on here.

We moan about lack of depth then talk about selling first XI regulars!?!?!? I know a lot is down to individual pet(ty) hates, but you do need options. The team does need a revamp, Johnson and Aquilani haven't quite worked out (yet) for very different reasons and Rafa needs to adapt. That's 1.5 seasons with him thinking we don't need another striker, people bitch about that yet still call for us to sell one of the few experienced (back-up) strikers we have!

In a slight variation on how to say who to sell or keep, I'm going to do mine in level of retention or reverse order of willingness to sell, with level 1 being sell over everybody's dead body and 5 being looking to sell to the point of taking any acceptable bid - that may not be easy re Babel

1 : Agger, Gerrard, Reina, Torres
2 : Benayoun, Kuyt, Carragher, Pacheco
3 : Johnson, N'Gog, Aquilani, Nemeth
4 : Lucas, Mascherano, Insua, Kyrgiakos, Rodriguez, Darby, Kelly, Ayala, Gulacsi
5 : Babel, Aurelio, Itandje, Cavalieri, Skrtel, Degen, Spearing, El Zhar, Riera, Plessis

And for those not already firing up their toy catapulting system from the safety of their prams I'll explain some of those. There are enough 5s that 4s would only really need to be sold if the money was good/right, or we'd end up with no squad or wholesale changes which neither is good, transitition should have happened already not be regularly recurring. Kyrgiakos is getting on, useful back up but only in a short term sense which is why I don't see much point signing anyone much over 30 if at all. Even S@int has decided to sell Kuyt as he's getting on a bit, so why buy someone when so many talk of 30 like it's the new 40.

Babel - might as well sell if he isn't going to be used up front or at all regularly. He has no real end product, pleases a few with his pace but he's a winger/striker, not a sprinter in athletics

Mascherano - I know some of you would suck his d1ck to keep him here, but I think we need to be more attacking and he is a good player that could bring in more £££ than what he adds to the team (in an attacking sense) I'm not saying we should sell, but certainly if someone makes a £25m-£30m bid I'd rather spend it on a striker or quality play-maker than keep Mascherano

Cavalieri - silly buy for me, we could have used Martin or got one of the free keepers doing the rounds. I don't want to tempt a Reina injury, but he is durable and spending much money on keepers is folly.

Skrtel - I was never as impressed with his thug approach to defending as some on here, we can do better.

Johnson - only in category three because he's here and we mightn't be able to get half what we paid for him, unless Citeh make a bid.............................................

Players like Degen and Spearing might as well go and, in the case of Spearing, further their career elsewhere as they're unlikley to break into the first XI and, in Degen's case, if the back-up full-back isn't going to be used when needed then where is the f in point having him? I've put some of the kids in 4 simply because they're getting to make or break time, they either will make more first XI appearances or may as well go because if they don't start now they never will.



And rather than sell lots of players to scrape together a few million and maybe buy another Dossena, why not sell Mascherano, Babel, Skrtel and Riera plus one or two others and look to fetch £30m to £40m for one player considered by some/many/most as key while the rest are not pivotal by any stretch? We could then get one or two player who could be pivotal, of course someone who could get the right money in and right players in to replace those sold would be a key starter.......................................

Last time I checked Mascherano is a defensive midfielder, he holds that is his job. We're not Barcelona FFS! We don't play free flowing attacking football. We, like most others, set out the squad with defensive and attacking elements.

If your issue is our style being too defensive, then the problem is not Mascherano, it's playing too many defensive players. Most would agree that playing Mascherano in a deep lying position and playing 3/4 attacking midfielder's ahead of him - the balance is right.

And the fact that rumours of big clubs such as Barcelona being interested in him surely proves his worth here.

[damjan193]

How about this: We give Torres to City , and they give us Adebayor plus 20 - 25 mil.With those money we get some other 10 mil striker for example and a midfielder.Then we sell Babel and Riera and we get Turan for example and maybu some other guy to play on the left.We should sell Degen and get a right FULL BACK not a right winger like Johnson and Degen.Aurelio seems like to be leaving so we could play Agger on the left and we could buy that kind from CSKA Moscow who's name I cant spell... It's Schenikov or something .The we'll need a central back on Agger's place and Simon Kjaer could do well there.Plus we have Skrtel and the Greek, both are only good enough to be a sub but maybu we could play them if we cant get a good CB.

[damjan193]

Then we can have a line up that would look like this:

                                 Reina

         Johnson   Carragher  Kjaer   Agger

                         Mascherano         

   Rodriguez                                 Turan

                           Gerrard

       Kuyt or that other sriker   Adebayor 


Subs:  Cavalieri
          Skrtel
          Schenikov/Insua
          New midfielder/Lucas
          Aquilani
          Benayoun
          Kuyt/New striker

[LFC2007]

- Cavalieri
- Aquilani (if we can get our money back I would take it)
- Riera (only because of his comments in the media a few months back)
- Aurelio (if he doesn't accept a one year extension on reduced terms let him leave)
- Babel (just needs to go ASAP and if we can get anything close to 10 million we should take it)
- Lucas
- Spearing
- Degen
- Plessis
- Nemeth
- Itandje
- El Zhar
- Darby
- Skrtel (he wont develop beyond his current level and selling him will raise funds for a better centre back)

More or less agree with that. A few things though: I'd definitely have Ngog on the list, Irwin and Threllfall too though they aren't priorities. I'd look to keep Riera but if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. Kuyt is a possible but only if decent money were forthcoming (likewise Insua).

That's about half of our squad isn't it? 

[dawson99]

This would be so much easier if we had a who has to stay one instead, much less to type

[dawson99]

reina.
carragher.
skyrtel.
agger.
kyrgiakos.
johnson.
degen.
gerrard.
aqualani.
masch.
benayoun.
rodriguez.
torres.

(everyone else goes)

[account deleted by request]

reina.
carragher.
skyrtel.
agger.
kyrgiakos.
johnson.
degen.
gerrard.
aqualani.
masch.
benayoun.
rodriguez.
torres.

(everyone else goes)

Degen ? Presumably just to keep the medical staff busy ? 

Or is there some awesomely cunning plan that you have yet to reveal.

[dawson99]

I still rate Degan, when hes match fit he adds something

[andy_g]

I still rate Degan, when hes match fit he adds something

yes, the possibility of getting injured

[LFC_fan]

Most of you guys brand a whole list of 10+ players you would like to see us get rid of. Yes, i know its just personal opinions and what we "hope" but we have to keep in mind certain facts.

1) With no new investment, its a known fact that Rafa (or whoever is manager) has to sell before he can buy.

2) And even if point 1 holds, there is no guarantee that he will have every single penny he got from player sales to spend on new players.

3) Most of you posted a whole list of players to get rid of. for example.:
Cavalieri
- Aquilani (if we can get our money back I would take it)
- Riera (only because of his comments in the media a few months back)
- Aurelio (if he doesn't accept a one year extension on reduced terms let him leave)
- Babel (just needs to go ASAP and if we can get anything close to 10 million we should take it)
- Lucas
- Spearing
- Degen
- Plessis
- Nemeth
- Itandje
- El Zhar
- Darby
- Skrtel

Thats a total of 12 players. True, Spearing is on loan, Plessis and Nemth arnt first team players and Darby can be hardly counted as first team as well, but the rest are. Thats 8 players. If we get rid of the above mentioned 8 players, how much do you think we can get?

For sure, it will not be enough to buy another 8 players to replace them in the first team squad. Even if the manager manages to buy 8 players at today's inflated prices, it would probably be maybe one 20mil player plus 7 freebies like Veronin or nunez or whatnot. And no manager will get rid of 8 squad players and replace them with a supposedly "world class" player and fill up the other 7 spots with whoever's cheap and plays in the positions he needs.

Sure, we can always promote promising youngsters like Pacheco or Ayala into the first team but such a massive change is definitely out of the question.

Before ppl start bashing me, i would like to state that my main point is in all reality, unless we get heavy investment / new owners in time for the coming season, it is more likely to see only maybe 3 or 4 "deadwood" leaving the club. And even if so, it depends on alot of factors. If benitez is still manager, its easy to foresee something like Blackpool or some lower division club offering us 5mil for Ngog but Rafa values him at 10mil. Stuff like that makes getting rid of deadwood even harder.

We are currently trapped in the middle im afraid. I myself would certainly be happy to see most of the names branded in this thread leave this summer and new faces replacing them, but im 200% sure that if we even do manage to replace player for player, the overall quality of the squad will be worse than what it is now. (maybe replace Lucas with Steve Sidwell since hes on Villa's transfer list so hes going to be cheap, and because rafa needs the monies from the lucas sale to buy another striker or what not).

In light of our current situation, these are the 3 players i would rather we sell.

1) Riera - for obvious reasons. Even if we had a new manager, I dont think most liverpool fans want him around. Admittedly, he does bring balance to the team when he plays but hes also one of the more bankable assests we have.

2) El Zhar - seen him play many times but never looked the part. Full Moroccan international though so might fetch something in the region of 3mil-5mil. And we have enough cover in the wings with benayoun, maxi , kuyt and maybe babel.

3) Mascherano - I know this is a very controversial decision and i will only advocate it if we have a like for like replacement lined up. True, Gerrard can play in his position and Mascha always gives his all when he plays ( you can see his passion) and i would hate to lost the captain of Argentina. But mascha would fetch a pretty penny and if we can get someone like yahya toure + cash in a swap deal with barcelona, i dont think its that bad a bit of business. Somehow, i feel that he wants to leave. theres been talk of him signing a new contract for the past few months but nothing has happened yet. Good for him if he signs and if he does, we have a fantastic player, if hes holding out or leaves in the summer, then we would probably have a significant sum of money for him. And depending if we find a like for like replacement for mascha, we can play gerrard in a deeper role and aqualini in front of him, all depending on who else we bring in during the summer.

I didnt bother mentioning some other players like Itanje or what not because they would not bring in significant monies. It will however to get them off the wage bill, but only if it doesnt thin out the squad to what Villa had 2 seasons ago.

I know if i had my way, i would so love to see players like lucas, babel and kuyt leave and replace them with quality (or at least better) players like silva, bent or toure. What i dont want to happen, is to look at the bench and see players like steve sidwell + 4 under 20 players on it.