Liverpool FC Forum

[A.B.]

How can any true liverpool fan say that kuyt is not a good player? Do people know what a workrate is? what skill vision and touch are?

and this Alves malarkey. We didnt sign him, get over it. Pennant is doing fine. he is  little over his head at the moment but he'll come good. Pennant is one of our most skillfull players and will shine for us

Whether or not Pennant will prove his worth remains to be seen. He's been poor it has to be said.

But for the life of me I don't understad why people think that Alves would had done any better. I'm not doubting what he's done in Spain, but it was in Spain. We all know what happened with Morientes.

Benitez payed 14.5 million for Alonso [that is including appearance fee's] and he payed that because he was worth every single penny. If Alves was worth 15 million, Benitez would had payed the money for him.

[puroresu]

Alves would not of cost £15 mil.  £10 - £12 mil would of got him.  He can actually play at RB or RW.  he isnt a typical rb.  The guy has tons of ability.  You can ask would he of settled?  Well Pennant knows English football inside out yet has been useless for us.  If his the mot skilful player at Anfield then we really are short on flair players!!!  How many times has pennant beaten a man with this so called skill?

[66-1120597113]

Decent post young Raffa D!

I agree with a lot of what you say but i think you were a bit harsh a few times.

Pennant at the moment is in a stage were he is finding it hard to adapt.At Birmingham it was simple for him if he was fit he played.Now hes finding himself in and out of the team from one week to the next and i think its safe to say the poor fella doesnt know if his a.rsehole is punched or bored!
Hes quite a young player and still needs game experience in a season to reach the top of his game,this he is not getting.I dont think ts any coincedence that at Brum when playing every game he showed a lot more of what he was about and can do...he was able to reach the top of his game!
The way things are at present if Gerrard is going to be our 1st choice R/M basically it was a waste of time to sign Pennant.If hes gonna play as sub or 1 0ut of 3/4 games we will never see the best of him.
Players with more experience,Hamman for example last season can sit on the bench,come on and play consistantly when asked,they are at the top of their trade.Players like Pennant in the twighlight of their careers struggle doing this.
In fairness he has been dissapointing but its unfair to judge in my eyes until he gets a consistant start in the team.

Craig Bellamy on the other hand i think was a mistake,i never liked him at any other club,but since hes a red now thats forgotten!Still though i dont think his style of play does now or ever will be Liverpool FC.
LFC have always been a footballing team that pride themselves on slick passing at high tempo!Bellamys best trick is to run onto a long ball from over his shoulder...do we really want to be a predictable long ball team?
Another thing is he will never get enough goals for a c/f!Yes i know people will argue that he was not really bought to score 20 a season,fu.ck that.Call me old fashioned but a centre forwards main job is and always has been to bury the ball in the net as many times as they can and still what they are judged on primarilly!
Another thing.you'd think at his age he could grasp the offside rule!

Gonzalez...i really dont know what to make of him,like Pennant i feel he needs games!One thing i have noticed about him is that his ball control is not the best!If a ball is passed to him with pace or in an awkward way he seems to struggle a bit!He's still young though and i feel he should be given a couple of seasons to see how it goes! One things for sure hes got pace but too often the final product of his  dissapoints!Give me a fit Harry Kewell anyday!
Time will tell..

Dirk Kuyt has had a great start to his career and really won the fans over! LFC fans always do appreciate a player with a good work ethic...this fella works his balls off,its refreshing to see!
I think hes gonna be a huge success for us and along with Agger im excited about his future.
The Crouch/Kuyt partnership would work given time,unfortunately Bellamy gets the nod ahead here and i dont feel thet compliment eachother atal.
When we start to play well again and hes getting a better supply im sure he will show us all what he can do...in the meantime the way he keeps his chin up and gives 100% every time is great to see..maybe a few otheres around him should take a leaf from his book!

Aurellio...mmmmmn dodgy what to say here! Where exactly does he fit in?
Where should he play?Left back...left midfield?
Probably the type of player that would fit better into a 4/5/1 formation with wingbacks that we seldom play.
I suppose though hes still young and deserves time.I struggle to see were he will get the games to make his mark unfortunately.He'll probably go to Wigan or someone in a season or 2!!

[Lando_Griffin]

How can any true liverpool fan say that kuyt is not a good player? Do people know what a workrate is? what skill vision and touch are?

and this Alves malarkey. We didnt sign him, get over it. Pennant is doing fine. he is  little over his head at the moment but he'll come good. Pennant is one of our most skillfull players and will shine for us

Whether or not Pennant will prove his worth remains to be seen. He's been poor it has to be said.

But for the life of me I don't understad why people think that Alves would had done any better. I'm not doubting what he's done in Spain, but it was in Spain. We all know what happened with Morientes.

Benitez payed 14.5 million for Alonso [that is including appearance fee's] and he payed that because he was worth every single penny. If Alves was worth 15 million, Benitez would had payed the money for him.

Not to mention the fact that we simply could not afford £15m for the lad.

I'd love to see Alves here, as he IS quality.

But that, as you say, doesn't mean he would settle.

Aurelio in Spain was a cut above the rest - why do the doubters not see that? (Oh, that's right - they never WATCHED him.) The guy turned down Real Madrid to come here and work with Benitez again. Same as Xabi.

That alone shoves the cretins' words right up their a*ses.

[108-1163930576]

I dont understand why Rafa buckled at paying for Alves yet had no problem giving Birmigham the price they wanted for pennant.  He had no problem paying 7.5 for crouch either. Yet Rafa wouldnt even come close to the price Seville wanted.  The Fowler siging baffles me in the sense he hardly plays.  What was the point?

Maybe hes just doing it for the craic.Bit of a laugh like.

[A.B.]

Alves would not of cost £15 mil.  £10 - £12 mil would of got him.  He can actually play at RB or RW.  he isnt a typical rb.  The guy has tons of ability.  You can ask would he of settled?  Well Pennant knows English football inside out yet has been useless for us.  If his the mot skilful player at Anfield then we really are short on flair players!!!  How many times has pennant beaten a man with this so called skill?

Wtf are you on about?

Sevilla first wanted 8 million pounds for him, and we matched that offer. They declined it and wanted more. So we offere 10 million pounds and they turn it down.

We offer them 11 million plus appearance fee's that would reach about 12 million and they turn them down.

The fact that Barca didn't want to sign a fullback for 15 million says it all.

I'm sorry but we aren't Chelsea, we can't afford to be milked dry. Parry and Moores already spent the money from the CL qualification before we even qualified.

It wasn't too long ago when we were losing money. Since Rafa's arrival we've improved financaly and recooped quite a lot of money from transfer fees and wages.

[Lando_Griffin]

Alves would not of cost £15 mil.  £10 - £12 mil would of got him.  He can actually play at RB or RW.  he isnt a typical rb.  The guy has tons of ability.  You can ask would he of settled?  Well Pennant knows English football inside out yet has been useless for us.  If his the mot skilful player at Anfield then we really are short on flair players!!!  How many times has pennant beaten a man with this so called skill?

Wtf are you on about?

Sevilla first wanted 8 million pounds for him, and we matched that offer. They declined it and wanted more. So we offere 10 million pounds and they turn it down.

We offer them 11 million plus appearance fee's that would reach about 12 million and they turn them down.

The fact that Barca didn't want to sign a fullback for 15 million says it all.

I'm sorry but we aren't Chelsea, we can't afford to be milked dry. Parry and Moores already spent the money from the CL qualification before we even qualified.

It wasn't too long ago when we were losing money. Since Rafa's arrival we've improved financaly and recooped quite a lot of money from transfer fees and wages.

Oh, no - AB - you're wrong.

You're talking absolute sense, using accuracies and intelligence to convey the facts.

It has no place on this forum.

You tw*t.   

[A.B.]

Alves would not of cost £15 mil.  £10 - £12 mil would of got him.  He can actually play at RB or RW.  he isnt a typical rb.  The guy has tons of ability.  You can ask would he of settled?  Well Pennant knows English football inside out yet has been useless for us.  If his the mot skilful player at Anfield then we really are short on flair players!!!  How many times has pennant beaten a man with this so called skill?

Wtf are you on about?

Sevilla first wanted 8 million pounds for him, and we matched that offer. They declined it and wanted more. So we offere 10 million pounds and they turn it down.

We offer them 11 million plus appearance fee's that would reach about 12 million and they turn them down.

The fact that Barca didn't want to sign a fullback for 15 million says it all.

I'm sorry but we aren't Chelsea, we can't afford to be milked dry. Parry and Moores already spent the money from the CL qualification before we even qualified.

It wasn't too long ago when we were losing money. Since Rafa's arrival we've improved financaly and recooped quite a lot of money from transfer fees and wages.

Oh, no - AB - you're wrong.

You're talking absolute sense, using facts and intelligence to convey the facts.

It has no place on this forum.

You tw*t.   

Ban me then   

[67-1161385641]

Alves would not of cost £15 mil.  £10 - £12 mil would of got him.  He can actually play at RB or RW.  he isnt a typical rb.  The guy has tons of ability.  You can ask would he of settled?  Well Pennant knows English football inside out yet has been useless for us.  If his the mot skilful player at Anfield then we really are short on flair players!!!  How many times has pennant beaten a man with this so called skill?

The thing is mate, if you allow a club to force your hand into paying more than the original worth of the player, you'll find yourself being ripped off much like Chelsea are at the moment. Then there is the fact that we don't know if Rafa had the £12,000,000 that Sevilla wanted, I'm not going to lie, I don't know much about Daniel Alves, I watched him in the UEFA Cup last season and in the final and he does look like a good player, he caused Boro havoc and the other teams I watched him face. I don't watch much La Liga, so I will believe what you're saying about him being a class player, for me to judge if he was class I would have to see how he fairs in the Champions League.

[weringo]

Decent post young Raffa D!

I agree with a lot of what you say but i think you were a bit harsh a few times.

Pennant at the moment is in a stage were he is finding it hard to adapt.At Birmingham it was simple for him if he was fit he played.Now hes finding himself in and out of the team from one week to the next and i think its safe to say the poor fella doesnt know if his a.rsehole is punched or bored!
Hes quite a young player and still needs game experience in a season to reach the top of his game,this he is not getting.I dont think ts any coincedence that at Brum when playing every game he showed a lot more of what he was about and can do...he was able to reach the top of his game!
The way things are at present if Gerrard is going to be our 1st choice R/M basically it was a waste of time to sign Pennant.If hes gonna play as sub or 1 0ut of 3/4 games we will never see the best of him.
Players with more experience,Hamman for example last season can sit on the bench,come on and play consistantly when asked,they are at the top of their trade.Players like Pennant in the twighlight of their careers struggle doing this.
In fairness he has been dissapointing but its unfair to judge in my eyes until he gets a consistant start in the team.

Craig Bellamy on the other hand i think was a mistake,i never liked him at any other club,but since hes a red now thats forgotten!Still though i dont think his style of play does now or ever will be Liverpool FC.
LFC have always been a footballing team that pride themselves on slick passing at high tempo!Bellamys best trick is to run onto a long ball from over his shoulder...do we really want to be a predictable long ball team?
Another thing is he will never get enough goals for a c/f!Yes i know people will argue that he was not really bought to score 20 a season,fu.ck that.Call me old fashioned but a centre forwards main job is and always has been to bury the ball in the net as many times as they can and still what they are judged on primarilly!
Another thing.you'd think at his age he could grasp the offside rule!

Gonzalez...i really dont know what to make of him,like Pennant i feel he needs games!One thing i have noticed about him is that his ball control is not the best!If a ball is passed to him with pace or in an awkward way he seems to struggle a bit!He's still young though and i feel he should be given a couple of seasons to see how it goes! One things for sure hes got pace but too often the final product of his  dissapoints!Give me a fit Harry Kewell anyday!
Time will tell..

Dirk Kuyt has had a great start to his career and really won the fans over! LFC fans always do appreciate a player with a good work ethic...this fella works his balls off,its refreshing to see!
I think hes gonna be a huge success for us and along with Agger im excited about his future.
The Crouch/Kuyt partnership would work given time,unfortunately Bellamy gets the nod ahead here and i dont feel thet compliment eachother atal.
When we start to play well again and hes getting a better supply im sure he will show us all what he can do...in the meantime the way he keeps his chin up and gives 100% every time is great to see..maybe a few otheres around him should take a leaf from his book!

Aurellio...mmmmmn dodgy what to say here! Where exactly does he fit in?
Where should he play?Left back...left midfield?
Probably the type of player that would fit better into a 4/5/1 formation with wingbacks that we seldom play.
I suppose though hes still young and deserves time.I struggle to see were he will get the games to make his mark unfortunately.He'll probably go to Wigan or someone in a season or 2!!

Aurelio isnt exactly young, hes 27 now I think, and should be near the peak of his powers. So far he as failed to impress defensively but looks like hes a decent passer and has some skill (how many Brazillians don't?). If you remember last season the mancs bought Evra who was absolute shite the first few games he played in, but now hes looking like a quality player and is even keeping Heinze out of the team. Aurelio should be given a significant chance to prove himself before judgement is made.

When we bought Bellamy I was worried he wouldn't peform as well as he did last season for Blackburn. Hes always been a good striker but until last season he was only getting 10 or so league goals a year. The reason we needed new strikers was because ours were failing to score, instead of buying 1 20-goal-a-season striker (Kuyt), I think we should have bought 2.

Ive said all I have to say about Pennant, I dont think he will improve and we paid way over the top for him.

[vlady16.1]

what interests me is that we have zero production from the all the new players except dirk and danial. now we all expected great things this year and are mystified about what happened. we aren't alone-- look at spurs and try to explain why they are even worse than us. they improved their team and went backwards too.

i am concerned that the amount of games played by stevie, xabi, sammi and carra in the last 3 seasons is catching up to us. it just seems that all 4 are not playing how they can.

can the poor play of the big 4 + pepe cause our new people to be relative impotent.

pennent is a good player-- i was very happy when we got him and thought he could solve the rm position -- he has been awful

gonzo -- boy he looks awful too like he shouldn't be there

aurellio-- why isn't he playing??? ain't worse than gonzo

bellamy-- awfull

why??? i contend that our standard of play from the big 4 players is 10-15% poorer than last year due to the games played.

how to fix-- jar to lm-- warnock to lb -- worked before and we will have attack on the left

             -- move carra to rb insert aggar as cb :2 reasons -- get aggar ready too replace sammi and then move finnan to rm -- at least he can cross the ball

this is of course if one wants to play 4-4-2 (i prefer going to a 3-5-2)but i think this could stabilize the team and get some production from the wings as we aren't getting any now

i don't think its time to give up on our new imports but we have to win some games

[66-1120597113]

Not a very good post in general!!

The bit that really annoys me is the fact that you are keen to blame too many games for our big players lack of performance!
Thats wrong...all big players in every team play a boatload of games,Gerrard at LFC,Rooney at scum and Lampard at Chelsea!
The only games we played more last season were the qualifying for the c/l...our fault as we finished 5th the year prior!
To blame games is a huge cop out...and a very thin excuse to try and paper over the fact that our players are lacking confidence,desire and passion at present!

Open your eyes!

[66-1112520797]

The Class of 2006-2007

Last year was our best and most consistent season in English football for over 16 years. The team was balanced, the defence was immense and records were broken. It was the brightest time for Liverpool Football Club since the formation of the "Premiership Years" and we were back to our best. The consistency missing for so many years was back and we went into every game knowing we would win.

  A big part of it was the balance of the midfield and the defence. Our 4 man midfield was up their with the best in the world in Stevie, Xabi, Momo and Harry. Stevie was immense, Momo owned midfields up and down the country, Xabi was a joy to watch and Harry finally got his groove back. The defence was excellent with JC and Sami steady as ever and Finnan performing exceptionally well week in week out. The only criticism with last season was we lacked a cutting edge in attack.

  Peter has been and will continue to be excellent for us. Him playing brings Gerrard so much more into games and his holding onto the ball is superb, but he was never going to score 20 goals in his first season. Morientes could not adapt to our game and our style of play and Cisse was just not cut out to be a top striker. His touch and reading of the game was no better than mine!.

  Well this year Rafa set out to put things right and he brought in 2 strikers who scored over 20+goals last year in their respective leagues  in Kuyt and Bellamy. He brought in extra pace and width in the form of Pennant and Gonzalez. Aurelio was brought in on a free for cover and push Riise for the LB role. So with these and the squad from last year Rafa had his "Class of 2006-07".

  We have not had the best starts, but then again the fixture list has not been kind to us. Some players have not lived up to the hype though. Some haven't even got out of second gear.

Pennant  -  I will never slate a Liverpool player who is new as some need time to settle in BUT from what I have seen so far I have not been impressed. He looks scared when he is on the pitch and shows no signs of trying to beat a man or take a risk. He is meant to be a right winger but he doesn't stay wide enough and his short passing game is attrocious. However Birmingham got £6.7m out of us for this drivel is beyond me. A bad signing - you can tell he was easliy a panic buy.

Bellamy - I feel for the lad, I do. He is a tryer and is willing to run his socks off, its just not happening for him at the moment. But it will. Today I thought Xabi should of played him in when we broke but for some reason he played a harder pass to Kuyt   He is a horrible cnut buts he is our horrible cnut!

Gonzo -  I have aired my views on him before. He came with a wave of fanfare making him out to be the best player in the world. People on here were saying that he would be starting LM and ease Kewell out the way. I know Kewell is injured but if he was fit he would be starting no problem. It spoke volumes when Gerrard was moved out there instead of Gonzo. He has impressed me a little but not enough but he is only young and can learn and get to grips with our game. He has been Ok, not but not great.


Kuyt  -  The A+ goes to the flying Dutchman. He is a very intelligent footballer and seems to have adapted well to our game and our system. He has played well and will get better and better as time goes by. He will score goals and I think we have a cracking player on our hands in him.

Aurelio  - He is not a LB for sure , either a WB or a LM, not a defender. His positional sense is unbelievably bad but he is Brazilian. His passing is superb though and I will reserve judgement for now.

Good post Rafa . D

With regards to Pennant being a panic buy you could possibly be right there. But I think people should cut him slack a little, he hasnt set the world alight but I reckon he has more in his locker that is yet to come.

The thing that baffles me is, Gonzalez came here with this big reputation. And I know it will take him a season or two to adjust, but he's not getting the same treatment that Pennants been getting from some posters and has been equally poor. But Pennant didnt join us with a big rep unlike the Chilean yet he's getting the worse critisim, Pennant at the moment seems an average run of the meal type player, I think he can push his game up another level. We all knew he was no Joaquin or SWP when he joined so why slate the guy whos only been at the club as long as Gonzalez has, Pennant wasnt overhyped ( well maybe by Stu he was ) but Gonzalez was.

Come the end of the season, if Pennant hasnt improved on his form I may agree. Like you said in another post a manager and player should be judged on a seasons work. Once we've judged, we can also take into consideration Rafa's "panic" signing on him.

[Bad Bob]

Okay, about these new lads...

1) Kuyt's class...end of.

2) Ditto Agger.

3) Aurelio needs more time but I think he'll come good and he's not nearly the defensive liability people make him out to be.

Which leaves us with the boys worth discussing at the moment...

4) Bellamy has the quality to succeed at a big club like Liverpool and I'm still backing him to come good.  The trouble is that we don't play his preferred game: our build up is too slow and the space up top for him to operate in gets squeezed.  He's not a box poacher or a link man...he's most comfortable playing on the shoulder of the last man and running onto through balls/balls over the top.  So, he's not had much of the service he thrives on and has looked average as a result.  I won't bother posting in the Cisse vs. Bellamy thread cause I'm cheesed off enough with these ridiculous 'stick the boot in' threads but there is a major reason why Bellamy is better than Cisse: he works hard for the team in the way that Djibril never did.

5) Pennant and 6) Gonzales...
Sadly, both are some way short of the required quality and I'm honestly starting to have my doubts that either will step up.  Of the two, Pennant has the better touch and the more consistent cross, while Gonzales is pacier, more direct and carries a greater goal threat.  Both, however, lose the ball far too much for my taste and neither consistently put quality balls into the box.  How many times did they miskick or fail to beat the first defender yesterday?  More worrying, neither make particularly incisive runs off the ball, making themselves available for defense-stretching passes or opening space for others.  Both seemed to come short for the ball, receive it and hold it before passing back to Alonso or Gerrard countless times yesterday.  And, when the fullbacks overlapped, they rarely picked them out.  They're just too static off the ball and they haven't shown enough quality with the ball to suggest that they can help create chances.  And, don't get me started about switching wings--they're both WAY too one-footed to switch wings effectively.  That moment in the first half where Gonzales was away down the right, running onto a diagonal ball was a key opportunity to cross it into the box first time and get the ball between the defenders and the keepers for Kuyt to steer home.  But, because he's only really comfortable on his left foot, he stopped and tried to turn back onto his left, effectively killing the momentum of the move.  Bottom line: both are going to have to improve significantly if they want to get anywhere near the first team on a more-than-cameo basis, once everyone's fit.