Liverpool FC Forum

[Octsky]

well the league is a run of 38 games. An acid test of our chances is the question of who can replace Torres when he is injured. Voronin? Babel? Ngog?
Can we win the league with just a recognized striker? and betting big on him being fit all season? factoring in cup games.

What is Rafa thinking? I thought his decision not to bring in Owen was due to the fact that he will bring in the young striker formerly from RM. Now we are playing a dangerous game.

[aCe']

Chelsea:
Despite their excellent start, i still think they'll come unstuck sooner or later... the style they play is brilliant to watch.. 5 or 6 down the middle in close proximity, all excellent top class players who can keep possession for long periods and can change the tempo at any point... The 2 fullbacks who seem to have enough energy to play 200mins a game... All looks great for now... But i dont think it will last.. Against the likes of Tottenham, Everton, Villa, City and the other big 3, i think they'll struggle quite a bit... The only width they have comes from the 2 fullbacks who only push up after their midfielders keep possession for quite some time allowing them the time and space to push up... Against the better sides, they wont be able to do that effectively, i dont think... To sum it up, they have the best squad, on paper they look the best side, not too sure about how theyll go about their harder games... Still many people's favourites by quite some distance though..

Verdict: Second

Man Utd:
Rooney. If they continue to build everything about their play around him, they'll continue to win games... Defensively, theyre as good as theyve always been.. Not too sure about Foster, but VDS to me is one of the best around and theyll look even better at the back once hes back.. Add Ferdinand, Brown and Carrick to the equation and its fairly obvious to me that their title hopes for this season depend on two players performing to exceptionally high standards: Rooney and Valencia..  Like us, its hard to assess what Fergie has done to their side until everyone is fit and playing for  few games together... As things stand, they seem a strong side, but they certainly seem to have lost that huge advantage they had on everyone when they had Ronaldo and Teves...They had countless options and styles of play going forward, they just dont anymore, and it could very well cost them.. Hard to decide how well/bad they'll do until they have everyone (Ferdinand, Brown, Carrick) ready and playing consistently together..

Verdict: 3rd

Arsenal:
Excellent start, not much to say about the side... Adebayor is a huge loss, but the new system seems to be working okay for now.. Will they keep it though ? im not so sure... Their main problem this season will be rotation.. They have an excellent squad, going forward theyr pretty much unstoppable more often than not but their same problems remain... Will they be able to keep enough clean sheets. Will they be able to hold on to victories and not concede silly goals late on? Do they know how to sit back and not crack under pressure ? im not sure, but im inclined to say no...

Verdict: 4th

ManCity, Tottenham, Villa:
Mancity, great to watch at times, but still dont look like a top side to me.. Ireland isnt playing where he should be, and they seem to be trying their hardest to get the system to fit their players rather than come up with a solid system and pick the players to fit in... The only worry is that they have the squad to do so if they realize it.. Oh and Adebayor, definitely the signing of the season so far
Verdict: 5th

Tottenham, Modric is out for a couple of months i hear. For them, its a case of having a great manager who knows how to get the best out of what he has... Defoe is having a great season so far, so are Huddlestone and Lennon.. Dont expect those players to maintain their form consistently though.. They have strength in depth in many positions which is good, but still lack that extra bit of quality needed to disturb the top 4 i think...
Verdict: 6th

Villa, not for me. For starters they look terrible at the back. Down the middle they lack a bit of quality. Think they need a few signings if they are to get into Europe for next season..
Verdict: top 10


Liverpool:
Its hard to assess where we'll be come end of the season... Hell its hard to assess how we'll be performing a couple of months from now with everyone fit and playing together... We have a good side and despite a shaky start the potential is still there to improve drastically in terms of performances and results.. Our 2 big players are producing the goods and when everyone else is fit and ready around them i think we can go on to win many games and get right back in it.. I think we have the 2 best players in the league, and i think we have a side built around them. As things stand, the rest arent doing quite enough to supplement that fact, and therein lies our problem. As i said, to me, its all because we've failed to deal with the injuries and lack of fitess in the side early on. I think we'll improve though. Hopefully enough to go out and win it.

Verdict: 1st

[Owzat]

CHELSEA : points = 12/12, position = 1st.

They've beaten Hull (17th last season), Sunderland (16th last season), Fulham and Burnley (promoted) so the only really convincing win was at Craven Cottage as the rest finished outside the top 15 in England.

VERDICT : yet to be seriously tested, but a win is a win and three points. Beating the rest is all the mancs did well last season

Chelsea : points = 9/12, position = 3rd.

Less than convincing in all their games this season, lost at newly promoted Burnley and scraped a home wni over Arsenal despite being second best. Their win against Wigan was convincing in scoreline, but two goals in the last five minutes and their usual 'fortune' of two or three quick goals before Rafa's normally made his first substitution to soften up their favourite opposition - the mancs have a 100% record over Wigan P10 W10 D0 L0 F30 A4

VERDICT : not playing well but picking up wins and a good booster to their GD. I think they will be more vulnerable than last season, but still have enough attacking options in their locker to beat most of the weaker teams

ARSENAL : points = 6/9, position = 6th.

Stuffed the bitters at their's, not many can boast as convincing a win away to that lot. They beat pompey convincingly too, then put out a convincing performance against the mancs only to lose to a penalty and own goal.

VERDICT : playing the best football of the big four, but still showing a tendancy not to make most of dominance in games like at old twatford

LIVERPOOL : points = 6/12, position = 7th.

Lose, win, lose, win sums it up. Conceded too many goals from set pieces, zonal marking back in the spotlight and just not convincing performances all-round, even in winning. Nine goals scored in four games sounds good, but seven in two wins and two in two defeats doesn't read so good, neither does one clean sheet and seven conceded in the other three games. Losing at spudz was not unacceptable, but the performance seems to have set the tone for the season. Losing at home to villa was poor and that one result puts as much doubt in my mind as the other performances combined

VERDICT : need to improve and maintain some kind of levels of performance or it will be a struggle to finish top four let alone win the league

MAN CITY : points = 9/9, position = 4th.

Have to throw them in as they've a 100% record and spent a few countries' national debts this summer on players, but so far they've beaten Blackburn (15th last season), Wolves (newly promoted) and pompey (14th last season, rock bottom this without a point) so even less to write home about than Chelsea

TOTTENHAM : points = 12/12, position = 2nd.

After a poor start last season noone expected them to hit the ground running this season, they've beaten us (2nd last season), Hull 5-1 away, West Ham away and Brum at home. Maybe Hull were 17th last season, but 5-1 is a hammering away and Brum were newly promoted so not a big credit for only just beating them, but they've been more convincing than the big four sides bar Arsenal and compensate the less convincing performances with maximum points having beaten one of the big four already

VERDICT : excellent start, more convincing overall than the other five mentioned but will they be found out? Their defence is full of crocks, maybe they should spend less on flair attacking players who seem to be squeezing onto the bench, and more on a fit CB or two. 'arry's reported desperation to sign James suggests he thinks the GK is the problem, but I'd worry more about King, Woodgate and Dawson in terms of fitness and injury.


If I were able to swap our position/results/performances with one of the others, I'd pick spudz. Came out with three points from their 'big four' test, have won all their games and put GD on the board. Unlike Chelsea, the only team above them, they've won two potentially tricky games in Liverpool home and West Ham away.

[Owzat]

well the league is a run of 38 games. An acid test of our chances is the question of who can replace Torres when he is injured. Voronin? Babel? Ngog?
Can we win the league with just a recognized striker? and betting big on him being fit all season? factoring in cup games.

What is Rafa thinking? I thought his decision not to bring in Owen was due to the fact that he will bring in the young striker formerly from RM. Now we are playing a dangerous game.

While I share concerns over Torrs and a lack of replacement, I'm more worried about getting the ball forward for players to score. We do have Kuyt, Voronin, Babel and N'Gog as possible alternatives to Torres, with Benayoun also a possible option, but we've so far looked unconvincing elsewhere in the pitch. One scoreline convincing win this season, 2-1 down at Bolton until the red card and scoring only once in each defeat so basically in three games we've score three goals against 11 men and two against 10.

If we could tidy up the marking 'crisis', perhaps concede a few less set-pieces as I have said for quite some time now, then we could focus on the attack. But for me, at the moment, that is probably only third in my list of concerns (at best) as the others are here and now issues, the one you mention is one for the future

[JC_81]

Am I less optimistic about our title chances given what I've seen?  Of course, we all must be if we're honest.  Our defence looks a shambles, our central midfield pairing is completely dysfunctional, we haven't been able to defend set pieces properly, Alonso's replacement is some way off fitness and may take extra time to adapt to this league, we didn't sign the extra attacking player(s) over the summer that we desperately needed imo, our best players haven't been at their best yet and we've lost two out of four games.  No doubts there will be a few Paul Tomkins-esque responses to this about how it's early days, don't worry, this isn't actually a bad start etc etc etc...  The fact is is isn't looking good for a title challenge even this early on.

Of our rivals, United look weaker, they were lucky against Arsenal having been completely outplayed on their own patch.  They have better depth than us, but I'd argue our first eleven is stronger these days.  They'll always be up there though with their ability to grind out results.  You do feel though that they are perhaps more reliant on Rooney than we are on Torres or Gerrard now.  If he gets a bad injury they'll struggle.

Arsenal look class this season if I'm honest.  Lovely football, but crucially with a bit more end product and a defence that looks quite solid with Vermaelen looking good and Gallas rolling back the years to produce some quality performances.  Song and Denilson look to have matured nicely as midfielders and Arshavin is perhaps my favourite player in the league to watch.  They also have Nasri and Walcott to come back and there is still talk they may sign one or two more players.  They are a big threat this season.

Chelsea have ground out wins without playing anyone decent.  They're awful to watch and seem to bore teams into submission.  For me the difference has been restoring Carvalho in place of Alex, they look rock solid at the back now.  Drogba looks in the mood and a good partnership is developing with Anelka.  I'm reserving judgement until they play better teams, who I think might be able to exploit this diamond formation of theirs.  Then we'll see how good a manager Ancelotti really is.  They are looking strong at the moment though.  Does that squad have the hunger to maintain it though? - a lot of old legs in that team and you still sense it's the CL they really want.

Man City - could they be a threat?  They look good to be honest but like Chelsea haven't really played anyone decent yet.  They will push the top 4 but I still reckon they'll come up short.

Spurs/ Villa - won't make top 5, not going to bother discussing them.  Villa are weaker without Barry and Laursen and Spurs still have too soft a centre to be a threat longterm imo.

As for us, I do genuinely believe a lot will depend on...

1) How good Aquilani is and how quickly he'll settle.

2) How many games we can keep Gerrard and Torres fit for.

3)  How quickly we can sort out our defending of set pieces.

Like Mick says, it might be too many variables for us to go all the way, but I can see it being open with the top teams taking points off each other, so we still have a decent chance.

[Scottbot]

Some cracking posts in this thread lads plus not a single insult or niggle  Here's my take on it:

the mancs - Out of the blocks slowly as usual but still the team to beat as far as i'm concerned. They are still VERY solid defensively and i think we'll see them eke out a lot of 1-0 victories. Obviously Rooney is the key player for them now but I think Owen (it's like being kicked in the nuts every time i mention him) staying fit is crucial to their chances. They have a ridiculous amount of quality on the bench able to call on the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Neville, Owen and young lads like Gibson, Nani and Anderson. And don't forget Fergie has the best part of £80 mill burning a hole in his pocket, if he needs to spend in January he will.

VERDICT - 1st

Chelsea - New manager at the helm, off to a flyer, playing well, looking VERY strong at the top of the table and seemingly the pundits favourites for the title. Deja Vu anyone? Everyone was saying the same things about them this time last season until we beat them at their place and it all fell apart. I'm not saying they won't/can't win the league but lets see where they stand in 10 games time. They are a very powerful side, big, strong, physical and they can keep the ball all day although they aren't particularly pretty on the eye. They will continue to win a lot of games 1 and 2 nil. Good shout on the African Nations Cup, how they deal with the loss of Drogba and to a lesser extent Kalou and Essien is key for them. Again, we're led to believe there is money for Ancelotti if he needs it, i'm not so sure though. I think they can be got to down the flanks, particularly the right side.

VERDICT - 2nd

Arsenal - Off to flyer and suddenly the attention switches from 'can they keep 4th place' to 'can they win the league'! They're playing some fantastic stuff and it was important for them to get off to a good start after last year. I think Wenger's stubbornness will cost them again this year. I read a quote last year where the Arsenal chairman said he had asked Wenger what he would do if he was given a £50 million transfer war chest, Wenger replied "i'd give it back". Crazy, this is a side crying out for a couple of additions to put them right up there, I still can't believe they didn't buy Alonso from us last season when he was available for peanuts. some of their so called young lads are developing into fine players now, Song is playing well and Diaby is starting to realise his excellent potential but they are brittle up-front with Van-Persie and Eduardo both injury prone. Arshavin will be key for them this season, how i wish we had signed him, we would be having any of the debates currently raging on the forum.

VERDICT: 4th

Man City - I really hoped they'd get off to a shoddy start, if that had happened the pressure would have built VERY quickly but the opposite has been true and they must be feeling very confident. They are a very REAL threat to our position in the top 4. I hope they get smashed by the first top 4 side they face, even if it's united because to finish outside of the top 4 would be catastrophic for this club. Huges has bought well and they have an excellent spine with Given, Toure, Barry, Ireland and Adebayor. Throw in the trickery of Robinho and Wright-Phillips, two solid full-backs and you have a balanced side full of quality. Much depends on how they (Hughes in particular) deal with their first dip in form. They could finish as high as 3rd but for the moment i'm gonna say.

VERDICT: 5th

Liverpool - Doesn't look too good at the moment does it? But there are still positives, Johnson has been nothing short of outstanding, Stevie is still Roy of the Rovers and Torres has scored 3 goals despite looking a little off the pace. Still it's pretty early doors, we need to scrap and fight our way to results as was the case on Saturday and hop the lads kick into some form. The talk is all about the midfield at the moment but i'm far more worried about the defence. We desperately need to get back to being tough to beat, it's not just on set-pieces, with Johnson playing so high up the pitch it has completely changed our shape when we don't have the ball. After 5 years of defending a certain way, Rafa has changed things up, Carra is spending time on the right, Skrtel is playing in space (more space then usual) and Insua (a player with some potential) looks short of confidence. If we can get back to being tough to score against (as we usually are) then we have enough firepower to get the winning goal on a regular basis. I agree there are a lot of variables that need to go our way, Gerrard and Torres must stay fit, Aqualani has to be the player we hope he'll become, Masch needs to regain the form he showed at the back end of last season. At the moment i don't think we can win it but that can all change, if Lucas or Masch got a knock we could see the 4-4-2 so many would like and bang! we win ten on the trot!

VERDICT: 3rd

[tubby]

All that has changed is that we have a slightly stronger 1st team although one of our main players is still injured. We have no strength in depth and this will eventually hurt us as you cannot win a league with 11 men.

I think we will finish 5th. We needed to spend big this summer just to keep City back but we haven't. They are going places thats for sure.

[heimdall]

I think it will end up

Chelsea,
Manure,
Arsenal,
Liverpool,
Man City,
Tottenham.

But who knows, things can change fast in football.

[Nando26]

I havent got time to write a novel so heres my predictions

1 Chelsea
2 Liverpool
3 Arsenal
4 Scum
5 Spurs
6 Man City
7 Villa
8 Everton

[Scottbot]

Agger's importance can be summed up saying that if he was fit, he would probably get the nod ahead of everyone else bar Carra at CB right now. We know he's a really good player when he's fit and in-form. A more intelligent defender than Skrtel and comfortable coming out of defence - two elements we've sorely missed at the back so far this season.

Good point mate.

[Scottbot]

Liverpool:
Its hard to assess where we'll be come end of the season... Hell its hard to assess how we'll be performing a couple of months from now with everyone fit and playing together... We have a good side and despite a shaky start the potential is still there to improve drastically in terms of performances and results.. Our 2 big players are producing the goods and when everyone else is fit and ready around them i think we can go on to win many games and get right back in it.. I think we have the 2 best players in the league, and i think we have a side built around them. As things stand, the rest arent doing quite enough to supplement that fact, and therein lies our problem. As i said, to me, its all because we've failed to deal with the injuries and lack of fitess in the side early on. I think we'll improve though. Hopefully enough to go out and win it.

Verdict: 1st

While i don't share your optimism on where we're going to finish, it's a decent assessment of where we are. I deffo agree on Gerrard and Torres (on their day) being the two best players in the league.

[TheLad]

Chelsea - best squad, absolutely motivated players, that are feeling that this is their year.
1th place

Man City - that might be a huge surprise, but i think they have the right squad
and the will to prove that they are a top team. 
2th place

Liverpool - scrappy start, we are still warming up for the season, key players coming back soon,
will get much better, might be too late then for a serious title challenge.
3th place

Manchester - seriously weakened imao, will struggle in quite a few games to get the 3 points.
4th place

Arsenal - despite the good start (just like last year), Wenger will not be able to hold his squad together (injuries),
still not enough experience, will feel the absence of their two ex-key players
5th place.

But it can be otherwise, I still hope we can do better than the 3. place.

[dawson99]

its all ours. We wont draw any games and once we click we'll win a lot more and end up with a lot more points

[heimdall]

its all ours. We wont draw any games and once we click we'll win a lot more and end up with a lot more points

I'm never sure whether to admire or pity such optimism. 

[JoeTerp]

Would have loved to see what this thread would have looked like last year after 4 games by the time the season ended.  Plenty of time for wheels to fall off on anybody's train (including ours)

How many points do you think the other main competitors will get from Villa @ home and SPurs away?  Although I am sure all of them will get more than 0, I am not sure if any will get all 6.

ALso, I think our challenge was ALWAYS going to have a lot to do with 2 things: maintaining the kind of form we had last season against the big teams 14/18, and eliminating the home draws against teams like Stoke