Liverpool FC Forum

[JC_81]

Benitez is a quality manager, unquestionably.  He is the right man for the job in my opinion and we will all be eternally greatful for what he achieved last season.  He is an excellent coach and tactician by all accounts, but I have never once heard a player of his, past or present, come out and say anything along the lines of 'the manager helped me through that spell...', 'I spoke to the manager and he was great about it...' or 'the manager was the reason I signed a new contract...'.  My point is that Benitez comes across as a manager that isn't all that approachable.

I bring this up in light of the Cisse situation.  Undeniably, Cisse is a confidence player, he needs the type of manager who'll put an arm around him and praise him in order to get the best out of him.  Benitez is not that manager, never will be.

Baros last year was in a similar position and I believe he has a similar mentality to Cisse, there are a lot of similarities between the situation of Cisse now and Baros this time last year.  Could a manager who mixes more with the players and is generally a better man-manager get more from players like Cisse and Baros?

I often wonder how much Benitez did behind the scenes to keep Gerrard from going to Chelsea this summer.  Very little I suspect, it seemed to be Parry doing all the chasing.  Could Benitez's stubbornness to sit Gerrard down and tell him how much he was needed at the club almost have resulted in him leaving?  What about the Owen situation a year earlier?  Reports stated that Benitez flew out to the England camp that summer to beg both Owen and Gerrard to stay.  In hindsight I doubt that ever happened, I can't see Benitez doing that, he may have flown out there but he'd beg no one.

In the Houllier and Evans eras it was a fairly regular occurrence that after a goal was scored, players would run over and celebrate with the manager.  I remember Gerrard and Houllier hugging after Gerrard scored on more than one occasion.  I have never seen this happen with Benitez.  A handshake yesterday with Cisse was the absolute closest.  In the supercup Benitez wouldn't even look at Cisse when he ran to the touchline to celebrate.

I don't make all these points to criticise Benitez, but I am just highlighting the fact that his style of management is different to most.  He is not 'one of the lads' like Mourinho, nor does he 'take certain players under his wing' like Ferguson or Wenger.  He seems stubborn and almost unapproachable.  He defends his players in the press (such as Crouch and Kewell recently) but I wonder how he deals with them face-to-face.

Of course a lot of what I have said is speculation, unless you are on the training pitch yourself you'll never actually know what type of a man-manager Benitez is.  And whatever way Benitez does conduct himself with the players it obviously works, his track record, including his first year with us, is fantastic.  Other managers may get more out of players like Cisse or Baros, but overall I believe Benitez's style of management will bring success.

[Ciggy]

Good post John, Rafa doesnt have favourites he treats his job as a boss and the players are his employees, he doesnt get involved in their lives, remember a few months ago Carra said he only talks about football and about nothing else.
I dont know if its good or bad that he's not a man manager, he doesnt think any player is indispensible so your correct on the Gerrard to Chelsea issue and the MO one.
Last season Moyes was really pally with the bitters look whats happened to them this season, he is a man manager, I think Big Fat Sam is also a man manager, also Stuart Pearce.

Some of our players in the past have gotten away with murder when Evans and Houllier where in charge they took the p#ss on there soft natures.
So maybe its better that Rafa treats them just as employees and not his friends.

[RUSHIE#9]

Totally agree with you CGGY that in the past many of the players took the p!ss with Houllier & Evans and in no way is rafa anything like these two. Having followed the spanish footie on Sky for many years, Rafa is very much I am the manager you are my players kind of guy and without going out to alienate them wants to make sure that the only one doing the managing in the dressing room is him.

There was an incident during his last season at Valencia were Aimar had lost some of his form and i'm not sure if he was also stalling over a new contract but Rafa wouldn't bow to his belly aching and his reputation and without a second thought the star of the team was dropped for a substantial period but the team still went on to take the title; to me this says that he is a strong man and if given time and some faith he will get things right.

[76-1115222408]

Great post JC, and as per usual I agree with ya .
Especially on the Owen and Gerrard saga, I said it at the time, it wasnt Benitez who wanted SG to say, but rather Parry and the board. I think Rafa, would have preferred the money in all honesty, he would have looke at it like this I think:  Prime example is Gerrard is out injured at the moment (equivalent to being sold, ie; unavailable to us), now if he had been sold we MAY have had three.four or five players more, and the absence of Gerrard would be a lot easier to deal with. Whereas we did not sell SG, so have no real replacement (well not directly as we have momo/didi).

Man management is key these days, as the media often helps players believe their own hype, and it often takes the manager to get the player/s to keep their perspective etc;
But again, I just think is Rafa's style and has worked in the past and hopefully will continue to be a success in the future.

As for the post being 'speculation' I dont give a s.hit, in all honesty I prefer these types of posts, where someone actually has thought about things themselves and then made a post. It doesnt always have to be based on facts, we are able to get our own feelings on situations and air them, something that hasnt happened frequently on the forum lately, probably apart from some of Bigmicks posts!!!

[Liverpool 4 EVA]

Good post John Craig mate.

Spot on RUSHIE#9, I actually mentioned this before in another thread. Rafa is absolutely RUTHLESS, and has fallen out with many players....Aimar, Baros, Cissé are just a few....His interviews make him come accross as a Mr nice guy, but from following Spanish football very closely, you get the impression that behind the scenes he has almost always been a no nonsense manager, and it works for him, no doubt about it, a young manager and an awesome track record.

[darwisigila]

which come first? his stubborn and ruthless nature or his track record? i doubt it people will follow his style of management if he don won anything before. we know he's not just a good manager but world class, thats why people seem don want to say anything. Any kind of management got it own good or bad, it depend on person ( boss ) personality and environment that he control.

[66-1112520797]

Good post John , and with all your speculation regarding Benitez and his man management skills i'd say you were probably right.
But if I were to put myself in Cisses shoes or any other Liverpool players for that matter . I would like the manager from time to time reasure me with a bit of confidence . Or maybe socialise with the players a little bit more , talk about something other than football. Relax there mindset a bit ,but of course still keeping there proffesionalism and discipline intact.
Again if I were a player and was going through a rough patch with my performances etc, it would be nice to know that the manager is approachable , and you can go to him for advice. Im not saying Rafa isnt unaproachable ,not at all , but it may seem harder for the players to open up to him and get a more understanding view from time to time from him.You wouldnt want the players to be on tenderhooks around him and maybe if he was a little more understanding he could get the likes of Cisse to put in better performances.

Im not saying Rafa is a bad manager or has bad management skills , because I do not know . But looking in on it from outside it does appear he takes the hard line approach with his players and lets them know who the boss is ,Thats fine all managers have there methods and as you say it seems to of served him well in the past.

[bigmick]

It's a really good post John and probably you've called the relationship between Benitez and the players about right. The only player in the squad who seems to enjoy a father/son type relationship with Rafa is Alonso. I truly think it's an area of his management that Rafa could work on. Nobody knows everything and I feel that given his undoubted stature within the game and his record, Rafa probably underestimates how much it would mean to somebody like Gerrard if he went public and said "Stevie is the best midfield player I have ever worked with. Infact in my opinion he is the best in the World". Similarly the much maligned Cisse strikes me as a bloke who needs praising up and filling with belief and confidence.
Love him or loathe him Mourinho is a master at this. He seems to be able to convince a bloke that isn't even figuring in the first team that infact he loves him and is just keeping him back for the really big games. It doesn't matter if you're managing your local Kentucky, football club or dare I say it, boozer, everyone from the cleaner up to the most important person on the staff needs to feel loved and appreciated. It makes the world go round.

[rafasredmen]

I also wonder if his style of man management had a bearing on some of our summer targets either saying where they were our going to another club ie Milito etc etc

[JC_81]

Had another thought on this issue,

If we are in agreement that Benitez himself is not the man to put an arm around the player when things aren't going well and is not the man to take a player aside and praise him, then is this possibly left to someone else on the coaching staff, such as Alex Miller or Paco?  I don't know what these guys are like personality-wise as I haven't seen them interviewed very often.  Or is the role left to Gerrard himself as club captain?

In my opinion someone has to take on this responsivility, because players are not machines, as Bigmick stated - every player wants to feel wanted - and this will more than likely bring the best out of them on the pitch.  Is someone else the go-between between Benitez and the players?

If there is no go-between, then I can't help but think that Benitez's approach and the way he treats the players is all well and good when things are going well (although we've had a ropey start to the season the club is still on a relative high after last season), but what happens if, and this is a big if, disaster strikes and we don't qualify for the champions league this year.  I'm not being negative, just hypothetical.  Will the players still respond to Benitez's 'I am the boss and you are my employees' approach?  I just think Benitez has to be careful not to go too far with this approach.  But then again you never know what things are like behind closed doors, maybe I have got him all wrong, but it's something to think about.

[hawkmoon269]

Had another thought on this issue,

If we are in agreement that Benitez himself is not the man to put an arm around the player when things aren't going well and is not the man to take a player aside and praise him, then is this possibly left to someone else on the coaching staff, such as Alex Miller or Paco?  I don't know what these guys are like personality-wise as I haven't seen them interviewed very often.  Or is the role left to Gerrard himself as club captain?

In my opinion someone has to take on this responsivility, because players are not machines, as Bigmick stated - every player wants to feel wanted - and this will more than likely bring the best out of them on the pitch.  Is someone else the go-between between Benitez and the players?

If there is no go-between, then I can't help but think that Benitez's approach and the way he treats the players is all well and good when things are going well (although we've had a ropey start to the season the club is still on a relative high after last season), but what happens if, and this is a big if, disaster strikes and we don't qualify for the champions league this year.  I'm not being negative, just hypothetical.  Will the players still respond to Benitez's 'I am the boss and you are my employees' approach?  I just think Benitez has to be careful not to go too far with this approach.  But then again you never know what things are like behind closed doors, maybe I have got him all wrong, but it's something to think about.

John,  I think your point about Stevie being a go-between is spot on.  I suppose it's a bit like a normal job.  If you have a problem, you go to your team leader.  If they can't sort it out, they kick it up to the line manager.

Even if Rafa was a "Man" manager, then I still think Stevie, as the team captain, has a part to play in the harmony of the team.  It is his place to go to Rafa, and explain the general feeling of the team.