Liverpool FC Forum

[Playr]

Sorry but we can make excuses until we are blue in the faces, the fact is we are not good enough.  Rafa isnt good enough.  The players are not good enough.  Even the fans are quiet now.  It was like a funeral at times last night I have never witnessed such a quiet kop for a derby before.

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[Roger Red Hat]

...and we'll um and arr throughout the close season then try to sign someone and it'll be too late. But all is not lost cos at least we'll have probably signed 2 or 3 15/16 year olds from sweden.

1-1 against the bluenosed bitters is a fair result anytime. but last night we needed to hang on to that 1-0 lead to get the all important 3 points. But thanks to that bum box 'bennynoon' character we fuk'd it.

move on.

[devaney]

Rafa has spent the same as Ferguson over 4 seasons up to the beginning of this season which was £24.5m a year

Does it not occur to you that they were miles ahead of us when Rafa came in? Our squad had so much dross it was embarassing. If over that time the two squads have spent roughly the same how exactly are we supposed to significantly close the gap? They spend £15m+ on players who aren't even first team regulars (Hargreaves, Nani, Anderson, Carrick). They'll have to stump up £32m for Tevez who can't get in the team. Hell they've just brought two teenagers for £16m ffs.

We on the other hand have spent a lot but have had to recoup a lot of this money through selling players. If we wanted Barry we would have had to sell Alonso. The Mancs don't have this problem. The likelihood is they'll cough up another £25m or so for Benzema next summer. Ok they may lose Ronaldo but it's not as if they desperately need the money. You just don't turn down £70m for a guy who's already made i pretty clear that he doesn't want to be there.

Sorry your argument is seriously flawed. You make it sound as if Houllier spent nothing and that certainly was not the case. My question was, what have we got to show for Rafa's massive spending spree?

You also suggest that United are in a better financial position than LFC - the reality is over the last few years they have lost over £200m and have debts of over £800m. Some of their borrowing at one stage, and may still be, were from a Hedge Fund at an interest rate of over 14% - you don't do that if everything is a bed of roses and you simply want to manipulate the figures!

You are right on one thing the squad was full of dross when Rafa took over but what has changed other than the names? If we had a change of manager just how many of the present squad do you think would survive?

[Fowler_E7]

Cant be bothered ready through the post mortem.

There are a couple of things that really bothered me last night.
I'll get the one about the manager out the way first.
Firstly just to say i was happy with the team, i think its close to the best we can put out, what he possibly should of done though is played the same team against Stoke last weekend considering Keane hasnt been selected at all the previous week and when he has been selected it has mostly been in a different formation - not the managers fault that Torres has been injured but it would of helped to have given them a start together away at Stoke last week.
Anyways like i say i was happy with the starting line up it was positive.
What i am fuming about is the substitutions.
To be fair to Rafa it was difficult who to take off first between Keane and Riera as they were both woeful, so am not bothered about Keane being dragged off this time around - he was poor whether thats due to the way he has been treated previously is another matter, he deserved to come off last night.
The one that bothered me most was Torres for Lucas, i know there was only about 6 minutes left but it just smacks of us hanging on for dear life when we were not before the change.
Now Torres did look shattered, he has just come back from a long injury and worked his erse off. So it wasnt the taking him off, it was who it was for. He should of at least brought on Babel for Torres and asked him to stay up top and keep them pegged back a bit.
What he effectively did in taking Keane and Torres off leaving just Kuyt as the only recognised striker on the pitch is surrendered territory, as Kuyt drops too deep most of the time.
So the last 6 minutes we invited them on, now we are a good side usually backs against the wall defending for dear life, but did we need to be ?
I dont think so, he should of trusted the players more, he should of brought an attacker on for an attacker and been positive, we allowed them to put pressure on us when they didnt really seem to have any more ideas left.

The goal itself though was all our own fault, firstly the stupid challenge from Benayoun to give away the free kick, it was clear that we were not comfortable with crosses into the box so giving away a free kick in a dangerous area right at the death was clumsy to put it mild.
Then the defending ?? if you can call it that, i know we mark zonally but whoever is in Cahills zone surely needs to be awake. He had threatened a few times in the air earlier so it was no great surprise that he would get on the end of something.

On a positive side apart from his miss was made up with Torres, he looked really lively and there were signs of him getting back to form.
Negatives - Keane, was abysmal and its a real concern the lack of striking options.
It doesnt look great on the transfer front but if we have any money in this window we need to be looking to bring in a striking option.
Not going into names, its been done to death but we clearly need further options/possibilities - rafa's favourite word in the past.

agree about that substitutions, they were poor again, and have been pretty daft all season and it is becoming a serious concern IMO, Rafa's decisions have just been down right cowardly

[stmichael]

Another thing is I think we're really miss Arbeloa as he plays an important role getting up and down the right flank allowing Kuyt to move infield. With him out we're left with a right back who holds his position for most of the game and a right midfielder who wants to cut inside. It's really limited our attacking play.

[Roger Red Hat]

thats not even funny you fuking freak.

[Leonmc0708]

I hate to criticise a man who made May 2005 great !! But Rafa has spent the same as Ferguson over 4 seasons up to the beginning of this season which was  £24.5m a year and that is taking into account what he has sold. Just what have we got apart from Torres, Alonso,Rierra and Skrtel. Masch - is he worth £20m - certainly not the player he was last year. Keane - just awful and a complete waste of money. Kuyt - works hard but now that the goals have dried up just what have we got? Pennant, Babel, Dossena, Cav,Lucas and Benayoun are just not worth of the red shirt.

Does this look like the transfer record of a title winning manager?

Josemi Rey Malaga £2,000,000 26.07.2004
Antonio Nunez Real Madrid £1,500,000* 17.08.2004
Luis Garcia Barcelona £6,000,000 20.08.2004
Xabi Alonso Real Sociedad £10,700,000 20.08.2004
Mauricio Pellegrino Valencia Free 05.01.2005
Fernando Morientes Real Madrid £6,300,000 13.01.2005
Scott Carson Leeds United £1,000,000 21.01.2005
Antonio Barragan Sevilla £240,000 04.07.2005
Boudewijn Zenden Free Transfer Free* 04.07.2005
Jose Reina Villareal £6,000,000 04.07.2005
Mohamed Sissoko Valencia £5,600,000 14.07.2005
Peter Crouch Southampton £7,000,000 20.07.2005
Godwin Antwi Real Zaragoza Unknown 15.08.2005
Miki Roque Lleida Unknown 15.08.2005
Jack Hobbs Lincoln City £150,000* 18.08.2005
Besian Idrizaj LASK Linz £190,000* 22.08.2005
Mark Gonzalez Albacete £1,500,000* 20.10.2005
Paul Anderson Hull City Player Exchange* 01.01.2006
Jan Kromkamp Villareal Player Exchange* 04.01.2006
Daniel Agger Brøndby £5,800,000 12.01.2006
David Martin MK Dons £250,000* 12.01.2006
Robbie Fowler Man City Free 27.01.2006
Craig Bellamy Blackburn £6,000,000 01.07.2006
Gabriel Paletta Club Atlético Banfield £2,000,000 04.07.2006
Fábio Aurélio Valencia Free 05.07.2006
Jermaine Pennant Birmingham £6,700,000 26.07.2006
Dirk Kuyt Feyenoord £9,000,000 18.08.2006
Nabil El Zhar St Etienne £200,000 21.08.2006
Astrit  Ajdarevic Falkenberg £750,000* 11.01.2007
Daniele Padelli Sampdoria On Loan* 12.01.2007
Jordy Brouwer Ajax Undisclosed* 24.01.2007
Francisco Durán Malaga £66,000* 30.01.2007
Ronald Huth Tacuary FC Undisclosed 31.01.2007
Álvaro Arbeloa Deportivo £2,500,000 31.01.2007
Javier Mascherano West Ham On Loan 20.02.2007
Lucas Leiva Gremio £5,000,000 11.05.2007
Mikel San José Domínguez Athletic Bilbao £270,000 28.06.2007
Sebastian Leto Club Atlético Lanús £1,800,000 01.07.2007
Fernando Torres Atletico Madrid £20,200,000 04.07.2007
Andriy Voronin Leverkusen Free* 06.07.2007
Yossi Benayoun West Ham £5,000,000 12.07.2007
Ryan Babel Ajax £11,500,000 13.07.2007
Charles Itandje Lens Undisclosed 09.08.2007
Emiliano Insúa Boca Juniors £1,300,000* 26.08.2007
Martin Skrtel Zenit St Petersburg £6,500,000 11.01.2008
Javier Mascherano Media Sports Investment £17,000,000 29.02.2008
Philipp Degen Dortmund Free* 03.07.2008
Andrea Dossena Udinese £7,000,000 04.07.2008
Diego Cavalieri Palmeiras £3,500,000 11.07.2008
David Ngog Paris St Germain £1,500,000 24.07.2008
Robbie Keane Tottenham £19,000,000* 28.07.2008
Albert Riera Espanyol £8,000,000 31.08.2008

Rafael Benítez bought 52 players for £190,616,000



Markus Babbel VfB Stuttgart Free 16.07.2004
Danny Murphy Charlton £2,500,000 10.08.2004
Michael Owen Real Madrid £8,500,000* 14.08.2004
Stephane Henchoz Celtic Free 28.01.2005
Vladimir Smicer Bordeaux Free 13.06.2005
El Hadji Diouf Bolton £3,500,000 15.06.2005
Mauricio Pellegrino Alaves Free* 17.06.2005
Alou Diarra Lens £2,000,000 23.06.2005
Mark Smyth Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Paul Harrison Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Richie Partridge Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Patrice Luzi Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Gregory Vignal Portsmouth Free* 01.07.2005
Igor Biscan Panathinaikos Free* 01.07.2005
Jon Otsemobor Rotherham United Free* 01.07.2005
Antonio Nunez Celta Vigo £2,000,000* 29.07.2005
Milan Baros Aston Villa £6,500,000 23.08.2005
John Welsh Hull City Player Exchange* 01.01.2006
Josemi Rey Villareal Player Exchange* 02.01.2006
Zak Whitbread Millwall £200,000 13.06.2006
Bruno Cheyrou Rennes Undisclosed 29.06.2006
Robbie Foy Unknown Free* 01.07.2006
David Raven Carlisle £0* 03.07.2006
Fernando Morientes Valencia £3,000,000 05.07.2006
Dietmar Hamann Bolton Free 11.07.2006
Antonio Barragan Deportivo £675,000 03.08.2006
Djimi Traore Charlton £2,000,000 09.08.2006
Carl Medjani Lorient Free 12.08.2006
Neil Mellor Preston £500,000 30.08.2006
Jan Kromkamp PSV Eindhoven £1,750,000 31.08.2006
Chris Kirkland Wigan Ath. £3,500,000* 27.10.2006
Darren Potter Wolves £250,000* 18.01.2007
Stephen Warnock Blackburn £1,500,000 22.01.2007
Salif Diao Stoke Free 25.01.2007
Florent S.-Pongolle Recreativo de Huelva £2,700,000 04.05.2007
Daniele Padelli Sampdoria Returns from loan 08.06.2007
Danny O' Donnell Crewe £100,000 13.06.2007
Jerzy Dudek Real Madrid Free* 01.07.2007
Boudewijn Zenden Marseille Free* 01.07.2007
Robbie Fowler Cardiff Free* 01.07.2007
Luis Garcia Atletico Madrid £4,000,000 03.07.2007
Djibril Cissé Marseille £6,000,000 09.07.2007
Craig Bellamy West Ham £7,500,000 10.07.2007
Mark Gonzalez Real Betis £3,500,000 17.07.2007
Gabriel Paletta Boca Juniors £1,200,000* 26.08.2007
James Smith Stockport Cou. Free 28.12.2007
Mohamed Sissoko Juventus £8,200,000 28.01.2008
Lee Peltier Yeovil Free* 31.01.2008
John Arne Riise AS Roma £4,000,000 01.07.2008
Harry Kewell Free Transfer Free 01.07.2008
Anthony Le Tallec Le Mans Undisclosed 02.07.2008
Peter Crouch Portsmouth £11,000,000* 11.07.2008
Danny Guthrie Newcastle £2,250,000 14.07.2008
Scott Carson WBA £3,250,000* 18.07.2008
Steve Finnan Espanyol Undisclosed* 31.08.2008

Rafael Benítez sold 55 players for £92,075,000

This season how many times have we looked convincing - very very few in my opinion and it is down to resources - NO WONDER Rafa TAKES A CAUTIOUS APPROACH WITH THAT LOT! I DISPAIR! And to think we blame the Yanks for everything and just look what we have spent ffs. No other clubs other than Chelsea have spent more and for what. I know we are second but where will we be in May?

Adding to a title winnign squad with £30m players is TOTALLY different to trying to build a squad though.

[devaney]

Leon - I am glad you used the words TRYING to build a squad !!  Houllier also spent £14m a year which also includes the players he sold. With Houllier and Rafa that is over ten years and just what have we got and where are we going? Virtually no strength in depth and some very unconvincing football.

[Owzat]

In fairness it still doesn't make some of the signings and fees any better. I've said before, it says a lot of Rafa's signings that he's spent £190m on players and Gerrard and Carragher are still in our top three players (maybe top five, depends on your opinion)

And while it is true the mancs mainly only add players to their squad, Rafa has had a complete clearout and even some of his signings are gone. While he may not have inherited a title winning squad, he did inherit some good players like Gerrard, Carragher, Finnan, Hyypia, Gerrard, Hamann and Owen - I'd say some of those would be welcome at any Premiership club, others welcome at most. Point being it isn't like he took over a side lingering in the bottom half, he took over a squad that finished top four (or five), cleared all but two or three players out and turned it into a squad that finished top four................................ and that took £190m!

If someone took a £500k car apart, replaced bits and pieces (new parts etc), pimped it up a bit, put it back together for £200k and it was still only worth £500k we'd all p1ss ourselves laughing at how you could invest a lot of money and end up with the same end result

[devaney]

In fairness it still doesn't make some of the signings and fees any better. I've said before, it says a lot of Rafa's signings that he's spent £190m on players and Gerrard and Carragher are still in our top three players (maybe top five, depends on your opinion)

And while it is true the mancs mainly only add players to their squad, Rafa has had a complete clearout and even some of his signings are gone. While he may not have inherited a title winning squad, he did inherit some good players like Gerrard, Carragher, Finnan, Hyypia, Gerrard, Hamann and Owen - I'd say some of those would be welcome at any Premiership club, others welcome at most. Point being it isn't like he took over a side lingering in the bottom half, he took over a squad that finished top four (or five), cleared all but two or three players out and turned it into a squad that finished top four................................ and that took £190m!

If someone took a £500k car apart, replaced bits and pieces (new parts etc), pimped it up a bit, put it back together for £200k and it was still only worth £500k we'd all p1ss ourselves laughing at how you could invest a lot of money and end up with the same end result

Thanks Owzat for making that a little clearer - I think we are on the same page.

Really enjoy your posts - KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK

[SuperK]

IT. IS. OVER.

[Ciggy]

IT. IS. OVER.

What is over? BTW last night you said babel had left 

[tonyeh]

statement from the gaffer ... "It is too soon [to write us off],” Benitez told Liverpool’s official website. “We are in a very good position".

“It could be better, but we have to look at the positives. We are level on points at the top with Man Utd and it's January. We are also through in the Champions League and the Cup".   ...............

I laughed at that. He repeats the same rubbish. Wake up, we've just blown the title pretty much after 5 home draws that should have been wins, because of your rubbish defensive football.

Yeh...it's bollox talk. It doesn't matter feck all, being level on points with Utd, the same way it didn't matter feck all being "joint top" with Chelsea. The fact is, is that we are second place...and for that you get nothing.

I still see Utd moving ahead in their next two games, WBA and Sunderland they're almost certain to win, but judging on our recent form, we may have a tough job at Wigan and an even harder one at Chelsea.

Presumably then, you expect a title challenge to be a walk in the park?

No, I expect a manager with Premiership title ambitions not to make ridiculous decisions.

I simply cannot imagine Fergie playing against Stoke and leaving Berbatov and Rooney on the bench and then in the next game substituting BOTH of them and leaving Utd toothless, even if it was only for a few minutes.

Our form this season has been rubbish to slightly above average, with no real stride reached. So Benitez talking nonsense about "being in a good position" does nothing for me at the moment.

Be quiet you tart.

1. Keane is not as good as either Berbatov or Rooney.

2. Torres is comign back from a serious injury.

3. Keane has done nothing to merit his inclusion.

4. We were WINNING when they came off, you crow's foot. Taking off your star striker and an underachiever in that situation isn't a lack of ambition, it's common sense!

Missed the point completely again.

[heimdall]

As soon as i saw lando's name in this thread....i knew this thread will decend into bickerings

Lando contributes nothing to this forum. All he does is insults fellow LFC fans when they say something remotely negative about the manager and certain LFC players.

He of course can say anything he wants about players "not signed" by beneitz (Keane....Pennant) ... He of course can insult the current CEO of this club. But if anyone dares to say anything of beneitz (Benitez and Parry are both employees of the club)....then he comes out with all knives.

You guys don't believe me....why don't you check on all of lando's previous posts ... he constantly name calls fellow members...he even challenges to to ban me (is he smoking crack or something..... hehe.... :P)

I haven't really complained to the mods about a fellow poster here... (you can check with them if you want).  But lando is really pushing it here.

Now its up to you guys, the mods.... (yeah....i am putting a formal complaint against lando here ) 

Now as for the match....(some of you guys can call it a Kuyt rant)...what do you think will happen when you have kuyt in the team ? Kuyt as a RW is still Kuyt.... He does not suddenly become christiano ronaldo if he plays there.

I admit...kuyt does some job against the more stronger teams (harassing the fullbacks..and stuff). But if u constantly plays him against decent teams who can "park a bus" (ie....the other 17 teams in this league)...he will be found out sooner. The team can only carry him so far.

I once said Kuyt will be the downfall of benitez....hey if benitez wants to prove me right.....well....i have no complaints...

Your talking recently. Have you read the rest of his replies? im guessing no. He offers more than you do by a very long shot, it grows tiresome listening to tirades of "im tired of Liverpool", "im tired of rafa", "im tired of posting tripe". Guess the difference between you and lando. Of one I can accept, the other grows tiresome.

Kharhaz you a fecking hyporcitical disgrace, in one post you berate Ace for saying a few harsh things, without being violent or especially vulgar and in the next moment you applaud Lando for suggesting other forum members go and kill themselves which technically is illegal isn't it or could certainly be construed as a form of harassment.

I say again you and other people who back Lando on this are bang out of order!! There is no place for vulgarities on either side, we have differing opinions, that's certainly obvious and normal, lets discuss them in a rational manner without resorting to threats of violence etc.

[Leonmc0708]

Leon - I am glad you used the words TRYING to build a squad !!  Houllier also spent £14m a year which also includes the players he sold. With Houllier and Rafa that is over ten years and just what have we got and where are we going? Virtually no strength in depth and some very unconvincing football.

No strength in depth ?

Dont let a recent slump in form, injuries and recent results cloud your judgement.

Keeper - one of the best in the business.

Centre back - Carra, Skrtel, Hyypia and Agger.

Left back - Aurelio, Dossena (Italian first choice despite form here) and Insua.

Right back - only Arbeloa.

Central midfield - Gerrad, Alonso and Mascherano

Wings - Riera only.

Strikers - Kuyt, Torres and KEane.

Point being - apart from down hte right, we have some excellent stregth in depth.