Liverpool FC Forum

[Benny The Noon]

British culture has changed in the last 20 years, we're incredibly fickle and impatient, we expect to go from a standing start to CL/premiership winners in 2 seasons. And Chelsea and Citeh's money throwing owners show its doable. And PSG, shortly to be followed by Monaco. 'Normal' clubs cant compete. Can't afford the glamour players, can't afford their wages nor the club structure that's needed to go with it.

Football cycles are too short. 4-5 years max? Most managers can't arrive then buy and develop a team in that timeframe before players start to wane or like Suarez, want to move on because they believe they deserve better.

German football has more patience, however the Chav's and Citeh's of this world have created a 'must have' attitude that has destroyed the reality of building a squad from the bottom up, as opposed to top down.

Rafa came close to achieving a 5 year plan, but Rodgers will fail because of losing 2 years playing with kids and go into a second cycle by which time his best players will have moved on - as we're seeing already.

Its a 2 speed highway, mega bucks = glory, prudence = frustration.

++  Does anyone honestly think we can win the league in the next 5 years? I don't.

I think we will struggle to get CL footy within the next 5 years Reg.

And that's not because of a lack of paitence. More down to a lack of ability within the whole management structure.

[dundreamin]

Well for a start we in the 60,s  when we started to win things we started to become a rich club. In the 70,s to the early 90,s we bought titles and the top players and became the powerhouse and top dogs in European football. The end began with Hysel and Hillsbrough. I don't think any club in the world could keep the standards we had reached after them tragedies. As for todays English clubs and you see the money spent/invested apart from the mange. Since 2004 to 2013. Cheatski one CL win. Citeh one prem win. Hardly mass success. In fact it,s a joke. Another thing since I became seriously ill in March I have become a right miserable f.ooker!!

[Benny The Noon]

Since the Russian took over Chelsea they have won 11 trophies

At City in the 4 years they have won two and gone from relegation candidates to CL regulars

Money has turned both clubs around.

[redno7]

and neither Chelsea or City have anything worth talking about in terms of sustained success.

[Benny The Noon]

So 11 trophies in 9 seasons isn't sustained success ? Two European Trophies in two seasons ? More than anyone else - if that isn't sustained success what is ?

In that same period Man Utd have won 9 trophies !

City have been going for 4 years with their money - go into the CL , won the FA , then the title.

[redno7]

I'm talking about club history like Liverpool, Man utd etc etc a pedigree for football success, until recently and until they got multi billionaire owners splashing the cash they were both clubs that loomed around the bottom half and except for Man city winning the league umpteen years ago neither had much to talk about.

Although you knew thats what I meant you still had to contest me didn't you?  wind up man.

[Benny The Noon]

Well if you are talking about history and going back years then that's a bit different to current sustained success.

Chelsea have been winning non stop for ten years now - they are current and it's been made possible by their owners.

In previous decades our owners and purchases enabled us to keep success going. It's just on a bigger scale now

History is great but all clubs have history - us winning lots of trophies decades ago doesn't mean much to the current status.

[Homebooby]

[quote="dundreamin » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:59 am"]Well for a start we in the 60,s  when we started to win things we started to become a rich club. In the 70,s to the early 90,s we bought titles and the top pla!yers and became the powerhouse and top dogs in European football.quote]


This was a point I was going to raise. I think that this is something we tend to forget now the shoe is on the other foot. The key to hold on to is that others took it from us, we always have the power to take it back too.

I agree with most of the comments about times and players attitudes changing, but I find it hard to believe that there are only around 100 (top 4 club squads) players worth having and paying top dollar for. Arguably football has never been more popular across the world with all the media coverage it gets and there must be youth out there al over the place that will serve us well...the key is getting ahead of that game and setting a different type of culture at the club. Whilst it was noted that Gerrard being the last post 100K player on the books was perhaps a bad thing, it can also be the opposite. It may not attract a certain type of player, but at the same time, how many 18/19/20 yr olds would complain about earning 20K a week and playing at Anfield.....I have to keep faith that the majority of the world still thinks this way, they just don't get the publicity in the way the glory hunters do. Catch the talent early, brainwash them with the club and tradition and the old ways can still apply. You'll lose some, but not all.

To comment on us not being attractive, given the fickle nature of the world described on here, it won't take much for us to be in the 'dream team' position again. We just need to catch a few breaks with our signings and we'll be desirable again. Am convinced of that.

After years of being optimistic about all the situations, I am genuinely feeling that way about this new regime. Even the way the Suarez ultimatum seems to be transpiring, we seem to be reclaiming what was once ours and I think the owners and the manager are on the right track. I hope I am not eating my words in 6 months time and I really hope the transfers build on what we managed in January as well. I hope that Suarez stays after his bluff is called as that type of flair and talent is few and far between and with the world stage opening up next summer he'll definitely be doing his utmost to shine at the peak of his career. End of the day, attitude is everything and we have spent 20 odd years chasing players (starting with the spice boys) who put money at least equally alongside playing for us and the reality check of 4 yrs ago has had an impact. LFC remains a giant in the football world and very few others come even close. Have faith. This time next season will be a different story (if it isn't I shall pick my bum and eat it)

[mart]

, how many 18/19/20 yr olds would complain about earning 20K a week and playing at Anfield.

Most of them will as soon as they are first team regulars. Sterling got 40k(?) after a few games.

We keep whining about greedy players but its the top clubs in europe that have made the game what it is today. This club didnt complain about rising ticket prices, expensive TV-deals and a "champions league" made to make more money for the richest clubs. The big clubs have made it practically impossible for smaller clubs to rise to the top unless they get a super rich owner willing to spend whatever it takes to win. I cant say that I like the way money rules football, but Liverpool are one of the clubs responsible for the importance of money and rich owners in the modern game. We cant complain when the players want a share of the profits.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

, how many 18/19/20 yr olds would complain about earning 20K a week and playing at Anfield.

Most of them will as soon as they are first team regulars. Sterling got 40k(?) after a few games.

We keep whining about greedy players but its the top clubs in europe that have made the game what it is today. This club didnt complain about rising ticket prices, expensive TV-deals and a "champions league" made to make more money for the richest clubs. The big clubs have made it practically impossible for smaller clubs to rise to the top unless they get a super rich owner willing to spend whatever it takes to win. I cant say that I like the way money rules football, but Liverpool are one of the clubs responsible for the importance of money and rich owners in the modern game. We cant complain when the players want a share of the profits.

true, liverpool, everton and spurs were the 3 clubs really pushing for the creation of the premier league, arsenal and uniteds owners back then werent keen on breaking away from the football league umbrella.
infact evertons chairman phil carter was the `face` of the rebel clubs.
back then though in the mid to late 80`s when this was all being proposed us and everton were the top clubs, infact we had been on top for 25 years and with a young successful manager like kenny in charge and the likes of john barnes and peter beardsley in our side our dominance didnt look like ending anytime soon.
we wanted all the money to go to the top clubs and looking back with fergusons united finishing 13th and 11th in successive seasons and them not winning the league for 20 years it`s no wonder united werent keen on the idea of the top clubs getting all the money.
funny how things turn out isnt it? be careful for what you wish for is the phrase that springs to mind