Liverpool FC Forum

[maguskwt]

i think your all missing the point. the team that roy inherited is simply not good enough when you compare other top teams to ours. we have 3 great players and the rest are just mediocre. so stop blaming roy. you can put ayrton senna in a ford fiesta he aint gona win a grand prix.

The squad Roy inherited is the same as the one who challenged the mancs all the way to the title, minus Alonso + your favourite Aquilani.

Since then Roy sold Riera, Benayoun, Mascherano, sent your favourite Aquilani on loan, and brought in Cole, Miereles, Konchesky and Poulesn. Yes his hands might have been tied by the board but he didn't have to sell Riera, the best winger we had for quite some time and loan out Aquilani, which obviously you would agree, but he did what he did. At the end of the day this team should have never been in the relegation zone and for that Roy and his tactics are to blame...

feckme give the guy a chance he hasnt been in the job 2minutes.

Wrong again... he's in the job for 4 months now...

Wow 16 weeks he should be challenging for the title in all that time.

Wrong again... read my edited post above... we shouldn't be losing to Blackpool and Northampton, and we shouldn't be where we are right now... At the end of the season we should be challenging for the top 4 spot which is what he's here for, to improve on last season's performance... if he can't do that, he's out...

In the mean time people have the right to be critical of Roy when the performances are as dire as they are now...

[devaney]

Fk me Mick - did you have to start another futile RH thread and why in the name of common sense did the moderators allow it? Give the bloke a blee.din chance and get behind him. ISN'T THAT THE LIVERPOOL WAY? Some people want to stop behaving like a bunch of spoilt brats. If he won fk all and came 6th in the league it would be an improvement on the absolute sh.ite we had to put up with last season! We needed a change and it isn't going to take five ,minutes to sort out what Benitez left behind.

[maypaxvobiscum]

Fk me Mick - did you have to start another futile RH thread and why in the name of common sense did the moderators allow it? Give the bloke a blee.din chance and get behind him. ISN'T THAT THE LIVERPOOL WAY? Some people want to stop behaving like a bunch of spoilt brats. If he won fk all and came 6th in the league it would be an improvement on the absolute sh.ite we had to put up with last season! We needed a change and it isn't going to take five ,minutes to sort out what Benitez left behind.

i think you will notice that Bigmick has always been one of the few who are still supporting the manager. the reason why another thread like this was possibly needed is because if Roy thread has been swamped with too much insults and many good posts in there have gone unnoticed because arguments take up at least 65% of the space. as we know, there is a divide within the forum with regards to Roy. all he is asking in a nutshell is what can Roy do to win the support of some posters. im sure you should know that the 3 of us share the same sentiments of support and respect 

[devaney]

Fk me Mick - did you have to start another futile RH thread and why in the name of common sense did the moderators allow it? Give the bloke a blee.din chance and get behind him. ISN'T THAT THE LIVERPOOL WAY? Some people want to stop behaving like a bunch of spoilt brats. If he won fk all and came 6th in the league it would be an improvement on the absolute sh.ite we had to put up with last season! We needed a change and it isn't going to take five ,minutes to sort out what Benitez left behind.

i think you will notice that Bigmick has always been one of the few who are still supporting the manager. the reason why another thread like this was possibly needed is because if Roy thread has been swamped with too much insults and many good posts in there have gone unnoticed because arguments take up at least 65% of the space. as we know, there is a divide within the forum with regards to Roy. all he is asking in a nutshell is what can Roy do to win the support of some posters. im sure you should know that the 3 of us share the same sentiments of support and respect 

Take your point but surely this thread will suffer the same fate and turn into another support/sack RH debate. That is my only concern.

[maypaxvobiscum]

i certainly hope it doesnt Devaney. if it does, then it will inevitably be locked.

[SouthCoastShankly]

And there is no excuses for Roy now, he had the team long enough to indoctrinate them with his own philsophy and a holistic approach and system... Rafa did not complain about the squad he inherited from Houllier, he jus took it made the best out of what he could in the league (played neil mellor against the invincible Arsenal and beat them) and won the CL.

I think that is where our opinions differ. I don't think Roy is the right man but in no way has he had enough time to impose his methods.

He barely had a preseason with senior players due to the world cup. In fact preseason was essentially youth development. For senior players like Gerrard, Torres, Carragher, etc the start of the season was preseason, hence the shaky results IMO.

I think bad luck plays a small role as well. Reina's mistake at Arsenal cost more than two points. The effect psychologically was profound. If we had beaten Arsenal I am pretty sure you could add 5-6 more points to our tally.

P.S. Playing Mellor against Arsenal was imposed on Rafa due to injuries, from memory Mellor did bugger all in that game (all season actually) apart from one fortunate ball dropping at his feet to hit and hope in the last minute. You can hardly credit Rafa!

[Igor Zidane]

Fk me Mick - did you have to start another futile RH thread and why in the name of common sense did the moderators allow it? Give the bloke a blee.din chance and get behind him. ISN'T THAT THE LIVERPOOL WAY? Some people want to stop behaving like a bunch of spoilt brats. If he won fk all and came 6th in the league it would be an improvement on the absolute sh.ite we had to put up with last season! We needed a change and it isn't going to take five ,minutes to sort out what Benitez left behind.

i think you will notice that Bigmick has always been one of the few who are still supporting the manager. the reason why another thread like this was possibly needed is because if Roy thread has been swamped with too much insults and many good posts in there have gone unnoticed because arguments take up at least 65% of the space. as we know, there is a divide within the forum with regards to Roy. all he is asking in a nutshell is what can Roy do to win the support of some posters. im sure you should know that the 3 of us share the same sentiments of support and respect 

I think you'll find that mick wants the manager changed as he has said on numerous occasions now. Whilst not overly critisizing Roy he has changed his mind on his appointment . I'm sure mick will correct me if i'm wrong .

[bigmick]

I think you'll find that mick wants the manager changed as he has said on numerous occasions now. Whilst not overly critisizing Roy he has changed his mind on his appointment . I'm sure mick will correct me if i'm wrong .

No, Igor is right I think we should change the manager in the interests of unifying the club.

I don't though think we should change the manager because he is sh!t, because he holidays in Llandudno, because he is a long ball merchant, because he looks like an owl, because he had a glass of wine the day before a European game, because he spoilt my holiday, because although he's won numerous titles I don't count any of them, or because he didn't put a full stop at the end of a sentence in a press conference or any of that stuff.

I simply believe that if the club is to prosper after the tumultuous last few years, it must go forward united. Too many fans have let themselves down to such an extent over the current manager that they wouldn't give him a fair go regardless of what he did. THAT is why we should change the manager.




FWIW I don't think we will for a while, I think we'll gradually diminish Roys control (the appointment of Commoli is the start of the process) until his position becomes untenable and he walks. If that doesn't happen before the end of the season, I think he will do better than his predessessor did in his last season and we will finish 6th.

[Thommo's perm]

I think you'll find that mick wants the manager changed as he has said on numerous occasions now. Whilst not overly critisizing Roy he has changed his mind on his appointment . I'm sure mick will correct me if i'm wrong .

No, Igor is right I think we should change the manager in the interests of unifying the club.

I don't though think we should change the manager because he is sh!t, because he holidays in Llandudno, because he is a long ball merchant, because he looks like an owl, because he had a glass of wine the day before a European game, because he spoilt my holiday, because although he's won numerous titles I don't count any of them, or because he didn't put a full stop at the end of a sentence in a press conference or any of that stuff.

I simply believe that if the club is to prosper after the tumultuous last few years, it must go forward united. Too many fans have let themselves down to such an extent over the current manager that they wouldn't give him a fair go regardless of what he did. THAT is why we should change the manager.




FWIW I don't think we will for a while, I think we'll gradually diminish Roys control (the appointment of Commoli is the start of the process) until his position becomes untenable and he walks. If that doesn't happen before the end of the season, I think he will do better than his predessessor did in his last season and we will finish 6th.

For me that isnt a good enough reason for him to go.
I am gutted that the high horse I used on sit on has now had its legs chopped off and I am forced to eat humble pie, all because of our own fans. What irony.
I can no longer look down on bitters and geordies because they will simply say "You lot are no better than us. Look how you treat your manager"
And they will be right. The darkest days of my time as a Kopite and member of the red family.

[Igor Zidane]

Jees, dark day's indeed . I reckon the fans are pretty united on this one i'm afraid . Don't no many that think roy was/is a good appointment . Don't no any that want to keep him tbh . So there we have it , even this board is united in wanting a change of manager (insults aside) . So the majority of fans are not stupid or clueless , the vast majority can see we are not and won't be progressing anytime soon under the current manager . It's there for all to see , so a change has to be made at sometime or things will just be made worse . Put it down to experience ,  a mistake was made in appointing this current manager . The big problem in wanting a change (as some found out last season) is that it's not always for the better , got to get this one right.

[maguskwt]

And there is no excuses for Roy now, he had the team long enough to indoctrinate them with his own philsophy and a holistic approach and system... Rafa did not complain about the squad he inherited from Houllier, he jus took it made the best out of what he could in the league (played neil mellor against the invincible Arsenal and beat them) and won the CL.

I think that is where our opinions differ. I don't think Roy is the right man but in no way has he had enough time to impose his methods.

He barely had a preseason with senior players due to the world cup. In fact preseason was essentially youth development. For senior players like Gerrard, Torres, Carragher, etc the start of the season was preseason, hence the shaky results IMO.

I think bad luck plays a small role as well. Reina's mistake at Arsenal cost more than two points. The effect psychologically was profound. If we had beaten Arsenal I am pretty sure you could add 5-6 more points to our tally.

P.S. Playing Mellor against Arsenal was imposed on Rafa due to injuries, from memory Mellor did bugger all in that game (all season actually) apart from one fortunate ball dropping at his feet to hit and hope in the last minute. You can hardly credit Rafa!

I'm not crediting Rafa with Mellor's goal mate... I'm crediting Rafa for not complaining too much about the squad he inherited, took it and ran with it and won us our number 5. Whereas Roy is starting to make excuses about the squad.

[bigmick]

Whereas Roy is starting to make excuses about the squad.

No he isn't IMHo making excuses, he's simply asking people to be realistic. Funnily enough, everyone who isn't a Liverpool fan can see that our squad is paper thin in places, but on these boards we are brimfull with strikers who have bags of goals in them.

Quite what people think ANY manager would do with a squad which has N'Gog as the second choice striker and Torres playing like he was for the first two months I don't know, but Roy isn't making excuses to say the squad is thin, he's simply stating a fact.

My guess is that fairly soon we are going to be in and around the top eight, and for those who are happy with such things all will be good. If we are serious about having a tilt at the title however, this squad isn't "the same as the one which came within four points of the Mancs", it's palpably weaker and isn't good enough. I'm not going to go into all the various differences, but they are obvious enough to convince me that anyone who claims they can't see them is infact having a "sky isn't blue" moment. I've been around these parts long enough to know that when they get into that mode, you have no chance whatsoever of getting any sense out of them so I'm not even going to bother trying.

[Igor Zidane]

Quite what people think ANY manager would do with a squad which has N'Gog as the second choice striker and Torres playing like he was for the first two months I don't know, but Roy isn't making excuses to say the squad is thin, he's simply stating a fact.

Maybe by a striker in the recent transfer window perhaps.

[Benny The Noon]

Whereas Roy is starting to make excuses about the squad.

No he isn't IMHo making excuses, he's simply asking people to be realistic. Funnily enough, everyone who isn't a Liverpool fan can see that our squad is paper thin in places, but on these boards we are brimfull with strikers who have bags of goals in them.

Quite what people think ANY manager would do with a squad which has N'Gog as the second choice striker and Torres playing like he was for the first two months I don't know, but Roy isn't making excuses to say the squad is thin, he's simply stating a fact.

My guess is that fairly soon we are going to be in and around the top eight, and for those who are happy with such things all will be good. If we are serious about having a tilt at the title however, this squad isn't "the same as the one which came within four points of the Mancs", it's palpably weaker and isn't good enough. I'm not going to go into all the various differences, but they are obvious enough to convince me that anyone who claims they can't see them is infact having a "sky isn't blue" moment. I've been around these parts long enough to know that when they get into that mode, you have no chance whatsoever of getting any sense out of them so I'm not even going to bother trying.

It was Hodgsons choice to spend 10 million on three players that we not needed then send two better players than he bought on loan and not buy a striker .10 million pounds that could easily of gone on a decent back up striker .

[bigmick]

Quite what people think ANY manager would do with a squad which has N'Gog as the second choice striker and Torres playing like he was for the first two months I don't know, but Roy isn't making excuses to say the squad is thin, he's simply stating a fact.

Maybe by a striker in the recent transfer window perhaps.

Perhaps mate.

But having heard for three seasons each time we lost that it was "the owners innit" and that Rafa was managing the club "with his hands tied behind his back" and "shopping at ASDA" because he "didn't have any money to spend", I don't know why those same people haven't yet worked out that until Roy got the Masherano money he couldn't go big for a striker.

Folk law has it that he almost bought some bloke I've never heard of off of Bayern but was denied at the 11th hour. Given  though that he'd been in charge a month whereas his predessessor had been in charge with only Torres as a striker for 20 times as long, it seems a bit silly to be laying the blame at Roys door.