Liverpool FC Forum

[66-1112520797]

Yep good idea, if Alonso stays sell lucas I reckon.

I'd rather keep Alonso than Lucas, but the Spaniard well bring in more money for the immediate transfer and his form has been poor for two seasons now.

Its a bit of a to$$ up, as Lucas has more of a future ahead of him, but he doesnt look that special to me.

[JoeTerp]

One reason to keep Alonso:
Gerrard         masch           Alonso        Barry
                            Keane
                            Torres

[Owzat]

Id rather keep Lucas and just not sign Barry. Rafa played Lucas on the left of midfield last season but the advantage we have is that Lucas is young and has a lot of talent which will improve with every season. If we sign Barry and flog Lucas then I dont think for a second I will be the only one disappointed.

ditto. Lucas has plenty of potential, we might get twice as long out of him as out of Barny. I'd rather Alonso and Lucas stay, we spend whatever funds are available on wingers and a striker and then maybe we'll challenge for the title. Signing Barny would make little difference in my opinion, with a bit of improvement I think Lucas could be as good a player

[Effes]

To be honest, most people were surprised when we did buy Lucas.
It was out the blue, and not the position that needed strengthening.

And here we are, skint, when maybe that was money that could have been used elsewhere
on a position of higher priority i.e a winger.

[66-1112520797]

He may by then be better than Gerrard or/and Masherano, but then again he may not.

Mick he definately wont be better than Gerrard and I dont think he'll be better than Mascha (in Maschas position DM) and to quote a quote or two around here, you can quote me on that.

[66-1112520797]

Yep good idea, if Alonso stays sell lucas I reckon.

I'd rather keep Alonso than Lucas, but the Spaniard well bring in more money for the immediate transfer and his form has been poor for two seasons now.

Its a bit of a to$$ up, as Lucas has more of a future ahead of him, but he doesnt look that special to me.

Just to add to this.

Our best players are not getting any younger namely Gerrard and Carra. They need players supposedly at their peak to help them win the league, like Torres and Mascha.

I cannot see Lucas if atall turning out in the next year or two to be the "other" dynamic midfielder.

But I do feel that we're more likely to see a better Alonso (if we do keep  him) to help challenge for the league. TBPH he cant really be any worse and can only return to a decent kind of form.

So for the imminent future I'd hold onto Alonso over Lucas, as I think he's more experianced and cultured in his football. And will bring a more immediate imapct in helping the team challenge before it falls apart due to old age.

In saying that though and given the choice I'd rather Barry over Alonso.

[ConnO'var]

I think that Lucas has the ability to be a bloody good player..... To sell him now, IMHO, would be a bad mistake. From what I've seen of the lad, the potential is definitely there. Whether or not he blossoms into a world beater will depend on how much game time he's gonna get under Rafa as it's hard to imagine Rafa breaking up the triumvirate of Gerrard, Mascherano and Xabi/Barry.

If money is the issue, then our most saleable player in central midfield is Stevie who is indispensable for us IMO.
It'll be crazy to sell Mascherano and that leaves Xabi.

Letting Xabi go to bring in Barry for the left wing slot will leave us with a a 4 man midfield looking like this on most days


Babel/Kuyt    Gerrard    Mascherano   Barry


Should one of one central midfielders get hurt than Barry can swing back to cover with Lucas and possibly Plesis as 4th choice.
Not 100% desirable but workable.

On current form, Xabi is not far ahead of Lucas and is worth much more on the open market..... So Rafa has it spot on with the central midfielder he's put in the shop window. If Xabi does stay, sadly then I think Stevies's gonna be shipped out to the right. Else Xabi will either be put on the bench (and slowly devalue with every game he warms it) or he'd better rediscover his form.... something I don't think will happen in the immediate future unless something drastic occurs like a severe reduction in Rotation which will alow him to play back into form and build an understanding with the players around him which will consequently afford him more time on the ball to neutralize the tactic of harrying him.

[Owzat]

To be honest, most people were surprised when we did buy Lucas.
It was out the blue, and not the position that needed strengthening.

And here we are, skint, when maybe that was money that could have been used elsewhere
on a position of higher priority i.e a winger.

Precisely. Rafa does seem to have a fetish for CMs and I fear the worst when I read articles talking about getting width from FBs.

Plenty say we don't have any money, however Rafa has spent plenty in his four seasons in charge

2004/5 : £25.25m
2005/6 : £27.70m
2006/7 : £31.80m
2007/8 : £65.50m

Only in that last season has Rafa bought two or three top quality players, other seasons it is more about quantity than quality. If we'd bought one or two quality players a season for the first three seasons instead of lots of cheapo come mid range priced players, over half of whom have gone already, then we'd maybe have had the title challenge last season or be well set up for it this. As it is we're constantly being disappointed in rumours because Rafa thinks players are out of his price range.

Doesn't signing players at the same sort of prices as villa, bitters, spudz and teams like that say something? We landed Torres and Mascherano for prices more like those of the mancs and Chelsea, it might be unrealistic to expect us to fill a squad with them Tommy Cooper style (just like that), but I'd take one quality player over three maybes any day of the week. That the two most expensive signings are successes and the rest not so should be directing our transfer policies, not worries over fees. Signing a player for too much doesn't count of course

[stmichael]

I think some people were very, very harsh on Lucas last season. He is 20 years old, came from Brazil which is a massive step and on the whole was very solid. To play 30 games in your first season is a great achievement.

I think he has got a very bright future ahead with the club and I fully expect to see him show more of an attacking approach next season.

[Simari]

To be honest, most people were surprised when we did buy Lucas.
It was out the blue, and not the position that needed strengthening.

And here we are, skint, when maybe that was money that could have been used elsewhere
on a position of higher priority i.e a winger.

Precisely. Rafa does seem to have a fetish for CMs and I fear the worst when I read articles talking about getting width from FBs.

Plenty say we don't have any money, however Rafa has spent plenty in his four seasons in charge

2004/5 : £25.25m
2005/6 : £27.70m
2006/7 : £31.80m
2007/8 : £65.50m

Only in that last season has Rafa bought two or three top quality players, other seasons it is more about quantity than quality. If we'd bought one or two quality players a season for the first three seasons instead of lots of cheapo come mid range priced players, over half of whom have gone already, then we'd maybe have had the title challenge last season or be well set up for it this. As it is we're constantly being disappointed in rumours because Rafa thinks players are out of his price range.

Doesn't signing players at the same sort of prices as villa, bitters, spudz and teams like that say something? We landed Torres and Mascherano for prices more like those of the mancs and Chelsea, it might be unrealistic to expect us to fill a squad with them Tommy Cooper style (just like that), but I'd take one quality player over three maybes any day of the week. That the two most expensive signings are successes and the rest not so should be directing our transfer policies, not worries over fees. Signing a player for too much doesn't count of course

Very misleading here mate.

The first 2 seasons were a clearout. If we'd only bought 1-2 top signings, we'd be left with half a team, literally and leaking goals over those seasons.

In this day and age, when people see the likes of Chelsea, Real and Man U splashing out cash to rebuild sides in a year, I can completely sympathise with the sentiment - "why don't we do the same, if we want to challenge?".

Benitez does not have that option. But his approach is sound. He is bound to make mistakes with the smaller signings. However, if they don't make it, it is easier to sell them off with no lasting impact to the team. He wants "the nuts and bolts of the team in place before fitting in the diamonds", so to speak.

In my opinion, Rafa is learning from the dealings that he's made in the transfer market from the previous seasons and that points in one direction only --- Progress.

It may be slow, but it is happening.

[RichardLFC1]

Im more then certain Alonso will stay some of the comments Rafa and Alonso have made make me think Alonso will still be our player next year. I dont think we should sell Lucas as he is Really young. Lucas can be very versatile so i dont think we should consider selling him

[account deleted by request]

Danny Guthrie played better in the prem last season than Lucas. I think he would next season as well even if it was only in a few games. Surely that would make Lucas surplus to requirements and maybe some team on the East coast of Spain would want him   Throw in Aurelio Pennant and Voronin too plus whatever cash is left and maybe we can nick one of the Davids.  ALthough I would be very cautious before I sold an U 20 captain of Brazil and player of the year in the Brazilian league. But at the same time I must admit that nothing blew me away about him. The best bit of skill that he showed all season came against a non-league team. Can't help but say that he went missing in games.

However, Lucas wasn't bought for his impact last season or even this season. He was bought to be a decade long quality player. And if he gets a bit of confidence and used to the prem he very well could become that. I think it might only be worth selling him if we really think that this is the year for the league title and that selling him will allow us to get the player (or keep the player) that will be more essential in helping us win the title.  This happens all the time in baseball where a team in the hunt gives up two or three promising youngsters in exchange for a savvy veteran on a loosing team (typically with few years left on the contract (A luxury bad teams can afford without the threat of relegation)).

Liverpool have supposedly just accepted an offer from Newcastle for Guthrie 


Liverpool have accepted an offer for midfielder Danny Guthrie from Newcastle, while the Reds have two offers on the table from top-flight clubs for keeper Scott Carson. (Liverpool Echo, 1215 BST)

[Simari]

Back to the topic on Alonso v. Lucas ...

A number of the new, young signings have oodles of talent. What I am not convinced about, is the approach taken to develop the talent.

Lucas is an attacking midfielder. He scored freely in Brazil. That doesn't mean he would do the same here - but I would have expected him to chip in with a few more goals last season in the league (for argument sake, let's say 5!). However, he was played as a central / defensive midfielder on most of his substitute appearances. His strengths were subdued. There are 2 schools of thought here:

(1) Learn the tricks of the trade in your GENERAL area of expertise (i.e: midfield) - and you will become a better all-around midfielder. Learn them while still young ....

(2) Sharpen your skills in your core strength (i.e: attacking midfield) and it will start paying dividends sooner - you will have time to develop *other* midfield skills.

Two examples within the current squad spring to mind - Dirk Kuyt and Daniel Agger. There was a point in time, where I was willing to admit that Kuyt was not a good buy, but he's developed his game away from what is supposed core strength was. Now, I feel he is an integral part to Rafa's systems (yes, plural) of football. As for Agger, we had no option but to thrust him into defense as Sami's age crept up on him making it difficult to last a whole season -  and Agger did his part. We need to provide Lucas with similar opportunities.

Xabi, on the other hand - has not been able to adapt and he is still young. With his passing game taken away by opposing sides (pressuring him to release the ball early coupled with his lack of mobility), I do see him as a 3rd choice midfielder. I have always maintained that we needed a creative striker (like some of the other posters here), and as such see a Gerrard / Masch partnership in midfield.  Assuming we get one, I would much rather see Lucas given more of the 3rd choice midfield opportunities than Xabi, if he is to develop and fill his talent.

So here-in lies the problem: Where will Lucas get the opportunities from, to develop his talent, because, IF Xabi stays - Lucas will not get too many.

[Sean]

When did we buy Keane ?.......he seems to be popping up in everyones start of the season team !

[Number 9]

I always liked Alonso and its obvious he wants to remain at Liverpool but even his biggest fans would admit he has not been anywhere near his best in the last while.

Hmm I wouldn't be sure about that if I were you Baz   

Ok well you're probably right I should have said"stubborn feckers aside"!!