Liverpool FC Forum

[JoeTerp]

One of the reasons that was originally given for the 4-3-3 idea was that it kept Gerrard in the slightly right of centre role, which is prefered to RM or  a CAM, but with our HUGE investment in Torres, I see him rarely being the one "rotated" out of the first XI similar to but not to the extent that Gerrard is undroppable in must win games, and you can't play a formation that does not play his strengths either (if in fact that is the case) I believe that he played in front of Aguero the young Argentian with loads of talent.  At first I thought, wel just invert the role of the 3 forward players with torres playing further back and moving the winged forwards up more, but that turns into a 4-1-2-1-2 Diamond midfiled with no width what so ever and then you have to take Alonso out and put in Kewell  on at left mid for width adn you got gerrard on the right and that defeats the whole purpose.  A 4-4-1-1 might be the ideal formation for Torres if in fact he is at his best as a supporting striker, and in that formation either one of Xabi or Mascherano is on the bench OR Gerrard is on the right.  Is there a way to accommodate both players? which is the lesser of two evils between Gerrard on the right or not utilizing all of our central midfield talent? if you had to put Gerrad at RM or a CAM in a 3-5-2 which is better for him? for the team?

[mikopool]

Considering we don't have the wingers Rafa said he was looking for I think it's our best shot to play 4-3--3. With fully fit players that formation could work wonders.

[JC_81]

To be honest St Mike, out of the 4 guys we've signed, only Babel sounds like the type of player made for the 4-5-1-come-4-3-3 formation.  Benayoun isn't a natural winger or goalscorer and I couldn't see him playing wide in a front 3, Voronin's a second striker (or between the lines striker) who doesn't fit the formation and as for Torres - I think playing him as a lone striker in his first season in the Premiership could destroy the lad - he'll need someone up there with him to take the bruises in the first season at least until he adapts to the style of play here.  I think he'd also be wasted as a wide player - we haven't paid 20 million for him to do his work outside the box.

I agree with Bigmick also.  We'd never line up with a 4-3-3, with the players we have and Benitez's mentality it'd end up a 4-5-1 without a doubt.

I think a front pairing is the way to go in a standard enough 4-4-2.  Get Kuyt/Crouch up there with Torres, let a partnership develop and get the midfield supply right and the goals will flow.  As ever though, second guessing Benitez is futile.  He'll no doubt shuffle the pack and the formation on a weekly basis.

[barnesrush]

i think its a possibility. mick makes a good point about being a bit overrun in the middle, but if any 3 players are designed to cope with this its xabi mascherano and gerrard. possibly lining up like this with kewell and babel invited to cut in and attack the goal rather than trying to get to the byline and pick out a single striker.

                                   reina

finnan             carra                     Agger                 aurelio/risse

               alonso                                mascherano

                                  gerrard

     kewell/pennant/                                        babel/voronin

                                   torres

[barnesrush]

nothing to do with this thread but insua's playin tonight for the under 20's if anyone wants to watch

http://livefooty.doctor-serv.com/thu12.7/Argentina_Poland.html

[RedorDead]

I think a true 4-3-3 is rare these days, Holland love to play it with Nistelrooy sandwiched between V.Persie and Robben....the two wider players are not real wing backs at all and are genuine attackers, the midfield trio are as responsible for defending wide as the "wingers" and it is tough to get right.
Mourinho did a pretty good job of it at Chelsea for two seasons with Robben of course and Joe Cole either side of Drogba. If your side is winning and full of confidence it is a dangerous formation but it is vulnerable.
Rafa knows it's vulnerabilities better than anyone having pretty successfully stifled Chelsea for a few seasons. I know we lost heavy once or twice but I really believe that we have had more success against them in the last three seasons than anyone else, especially in the cups of course.
So what will we do? It is hard to say, with Kewell, Kuyt, Torres and Babel and even Pennant we certainly have players who could really have a go at 4-3-3 but knowing Rafa's cautious approach and seeing how Rafa himself has quashed the 4-3-3 I'd be surprised to see it a lot. Perhaps for a half here and there and in the cups but in the league I cannot see Rafa risking it too much.

[barnesrush]

and here with english commentary

http://fifa.feedroom.com/?fr_chl....c26f371

[JoeTerp]

nothing to do with this thread but insua's playin tonight for the under 20's if anyone wants to watch

http://livefooty.doctor-serv.com/thu12.7/Argentina_Poland.html

there is a U-20 world cup thread in the worldwide football section

[barnesrush]

what, do people actually go in there

cheers joe

[Bad Bob]

He didn't say anything about 4-3-3 but Rafa expects us to be more of an attacking force this season (from .tv):

---------------------
Rafael Benitez has vowed to send his Liverpool side on the attack this season after completing the latest stage of his squad rebuilding.
Following the arrivals of Fernando Torres, Andriy Voronin, Ryan Babel and Yossi Benayoun, the boss has a vast array of fresh striking talents at his disposal and he's hoping his new recruits can fire the Reds towards a successful campaign.

"It is clear that we have quality players coming in and normally that should mean that we will play better," he said.

"The best teams are proactive rather than reactive. We have been quick in the market and now hopefully we can be quick on the pitch.

"I hope we can play more like the way I want us to. Defensively the team has been good and we want to attack. We had more crosses and shots than anyone, but we needed to improve our accuracy. Hopefully, with these players the crossing will be better and so will the finishing.

"In Valencia we had three or four players who all scored between 10 and 15 goals and that's the idea here. If you have one player who can score 20 goals then that is good, but what if he has an injury? Also if the other teams know he is the only player who can score goals, it will be easier for them to control your team in attack.

"We feel that attacking wise we have a much stronger squad, and we will be able to score more goals with this group of players. We have players of quality in key positions, players who can change a game when we need them to. That will allow us to play more of the style of football we want to at Liverpool."

-----------------------------

If Rafa can finally get the attacking part of the team set up the way he had it at Valencia, we're in for a treat!

[maguskwt]

He didn't say anything about 4-3-3 but Rafa expects us to be more of an attacking force this season (from .tv):

---------------------
Rafael Benitez has vowed to send his Liverpool side on the attack this season after completing the latest stage of his squad rebuilding.
Following the arrivals of Fernando Torres, Andriy Voronin, Ryan Babel and Yossi Benayoun, the boss has a vast array of fresh striking talents at his disposal and he's hoping his new recruits can fire the Reds towards a successful campaign.

"It is clear that we have quality players coming in and normally that should mean that we will play better," he said.

"The best teams are proactive rather than reactive. We have been quick in the market and now hopefully we can be quick on the pitch.

"I hope we can play more like the way I want us to. Defensively the team has been good and we want to attack. We had more crosses and shots than anyone, but we needed to improve our accuracy. Hopefully, with these players the crossing will be better and so will the finishing.

"In Valencia we had three or four players who all scored between 10 and 15 goals and that's the idea here. If you have one player who can score 20 goals then that is good, but what if he has an injury? Also if the other teams know he is the only player who can score goals, it will be easier for them to control your team in attack.

"We feel that attacking wise we have a much stronger squad, and we will be able to score more goals with this group of players. We have players of quality in key positions, players who can change a game when we need them to. That will allow us to play more of the style of football we want to at Liverpool."

-----------------------------

If Rafa can finally get the attacking part of the team set up the way he had it at Valencia, we're in for a treat!

sounds good! I been saying in the babel thread that benitez is not a defensive coach... this proves it! His valencia was an attacking side and if he can make this style work at liverpool then we will be challenging for the title...

I just would like to know how benitez is gonna incorporate babel and benayoun in the team... i'm sure they won't be playing as strikers as we already have 4 strikers... but they're not out and out wingers as well and we haven't bought any yet... 

and babel has said that his preference is as a striker role i wonder whether he'll be happy if rafa uses him as a left winger...

[stmichael]

He didn't say anything about 4-3-3 but Rafa expects us to be more of an attacking force this season (from .tv):

---------------------
Rafael Benitez has vowed to send his Liverpool side on the attack this season after completing the latest stage of his squad rebuilding.
Following the arrivals of Fernando Torres, Andriy Voronin, Ryan Babel and Yossi Benayoun, the boss has a vast array of fresh striking talents at his disposal and he's hoping his new recruits can fire the Reds towards a successful campaign.

"It is clear that we have quality players coming in and normally that should mean that we will play better," he said.

"The best teams are proactive rather than reactive. We have been quick in the market and now hopefully we can be quick on the pitch.

"I hope we can play more like the way I want us to. Defensively the team has been good and we want to attack. We had more crosses and shots than anyone, but we needed to improve our accuracy. Hopefully, with these players the crossing will be better and so will the finishing.

"In Valencia we had three or four players who all scored between 10 and 15 goals and that's the idea here. If you have one player who can score 20 goals then that is good, but what if he has an injury? Also if the other teams know he is the only player who can score goals, it will be easier for them to control your team in attack.

"We feel that attacking wise we have a much stronger squad, and we will be able to score more goals with this group of players. We have players of quality in key positions, players who can change a game when we need them to. That will allow us to play more of the style of football we want to at Liverpool."

-----------------------------

If Rafa can finally get the attacking part of the team set up the way he had it at Valencia, we're in for a treat!

First of all I want to adress this notion that Rafa is a "cautious manager". I don't necessarily agree with it. I think he's an overly tactical manager, rather than a cautious one. There are times when he tells them to go for it and they've coincided with some of our best performances. One of my favourite ever performances of ours under Rafa came against Juve when they were 2-0 down after twenty minutes and utterly shell shocked. We were ace in that match with Gerrard rampant. I also will never forget him bringing Balenthia to Anfield for the best attacking display by any opponents there I've ever seen. They were mesmerising and Aimar took the  pi$$ conducting the orchestra from the edge of our penalty area.

There are always games when caution and tactics are crucial. However, when you've got good and great players in your team, most of the time you should just let them off the leash. It builds confidence and that builds results. For that reason I'd be very happy if Rafa played 4-3-3 on day one and got off to a good winning start. With the players at his disposal I think that's the way we should be set up for many games. Having said that, it's not so much about formation as about attitude. 4-3-3 could easily be construed as 4-5-1. I suppose what I'm saying is just let Babel (or Kewell if fit and performing) off the leash on the left of an attacking trio, with Torres and Kuyt being the other two.

Gerrard, Mascher and Xabi will have the midfield well sorted behind them. We'll score goals aplenty with that front six.

Having said that, I remember Houllier saying similar things in 2002, when we'd spent big and played attacking for the first few games but after successive 2-2 draws (and blowing 2 goal leads against Newcastle and Birmingham) we soon abandoned it and after the Boro defeat went with a 4-5-1, when we were top of the league, you knew Houllier would never change his mindset.

What we normally are is very good at keeping a lead under Rafa but equally (certainly in the league) hopeless at coming back from behind and that's a mental problem, as well as a tactical one. I'm usually always confident we'll win at Anfield now (especially when we go ahead) but don't have confidence away from home and that's where the shackles need to come off. Don't pay any respects to sh#t teams with negative formations and ending up with a 0-0 washout (i.e. Villa and City last season amongst others). Just go out and attack them and hopefully we've got the players to do that now.

[JoeTerp]

I think one way to prevent the 4-5-1 shape which I believe you think to be too defensive and I agree, would be to line up the midfield in a row With Gerrard playing centre of right, Mascherano dead smack in the middle and only deeper by smidge and Alonso playing centre of left.  This gives the formation much more width, where it would be far too narraw if they played a triangle with Gerrard as a CAM and Xabi and Macherano as deep lying playmaking and holding/defensive respectively.  this slightly wider midfield, takes off pressure of Finnan and Riise to go forward and add width in the early attack, and also takes some pressure off of the wingers to drop to defend the opponents wide attack in the middle third.

[RedBlood]

i havnt got time to read all the posts so sorry if someone has mentioned this

but  i think a 4-5-1 formation that converts into a 4-3-3 when on the attack is more likely then an out and out 4-3-3

but i would love to see it and i feel we have the perfect players for it

[JoeTerp]

I think in the 4-5-1 we are more likely to play Pennant, Kewell  and Crouch and in a 4-3-3 we are more likely to see Kuyt, Babel, and Torres.