Liverpool FC Forum

[Kenny Kan]

We've only played 360 minutes of Premiership football but in that time frame how do you think we've fared so far?

Defence: It's good to see Agger back in the side (touch wood) as I think generally he is more 'switched on' than Skertel. Individually I think he has done a really sound job so far and his composure on the ball is reassuring. Enrique has slotted in really well and out of all our summer signings he has probably impressed me the most - he looks as though he has been playing for us, for a couple of years for us, not months. Carragher, has had a couple of 'ropey' moments that have eventually cost us points. Many on here and else where have written him off, I'm not concerned with his defending personally, mistakes happen and that is football. I have had a gripe with his 'hoofing' of the ball, which was abundantly apparent against Sunderland (2nd half) and occasionally during  other games. I think he has become conscience of this recently though (hope I'm right). Before, (Sunderland  & prior) he'd hoof it long just for the sake of it, even when the more simple and logical pass was on. I only noticed he put his foot through the ball when he was pressured against Stoke's attack, and while the bloke isn't the most technically savvy player on the ball, I'd expect him to hoof it, in pressured areas and situations like that. Kelly started well, and even from last season looked accomplished their at RB, both him and Flanno always give 110%. Unfortunately, against Arsenal I think it was, he had a pretty nervous time, Flanno that is. And that carried over to the Exeter match. His confidence looked shot but he does have a bright future at RB I'm quite positive of that.

Overall, the defense collectively have looked like a sound unit with Pepe behind them. They are definitely aided by the fact that Dalglish sets his teams out to primarily attack and be productive in the middle and final third, taking the 'constant' pressure off them. Only individual errors, have cost us goals, Flanno against Sunderland and Carra being the culprit against Bolton and Sunderland. Although the defensive line isn't as deep as it tended to be under the brilliant guidance of Hodgeson, I would like to see them possibly 10 yards higher up the pitch. There is probably reluctance from Carra in doing this with his obvious lack of pace. But when we are dominating a side, be it home or away - in territory and/or possession, naturally the midfield push up and support attack. Even Lucas (which I applaud) looks to support and be more adventurous during these phases of play. This leaves a reasonably big gap between our defence and midfield. A big enough space for teams to counter and exploit, I think our defence should just push up and squeeze the play a little more. Other than that they've done well.

Midfield: As a unit, they haven't looked as cohesive as the back line. More play and possession is going through them this year. As a bloke who used to "scapegoat" Lucas, I have to say he has really impressed me and has really matured into an accomplished DM. He brings the balance into midfield and without a player like him in the side we would be punished more often than not. He's been quite solid individually, and he really is a team player. And as I said previously, a bit more adventurous in his play and passing. Occasionally he has given the ball away but only when playing the 'adventurous' pass. Him and Downing IMO have been our consistently better midfielders; Downing, again wasn't a player that I was  a fan of but he has done really well and looks menacing at times. He has a powerful left foot and a very good cross on him, he is sound in possession and rarely concedes it. I'd like to see him over the course of the season add more 'end product' to his game and perhaps not switch flanks as often as he does. Whether this is an instruction from the bench or not, it tends to narrow us back down again and see us constantly 'cut inside'. Unless, Kelly or whomever is willing and able to overlap then I see this as drifting back to our 'old age issue'. For years, we've wanted the side to play with more width and with Downing in the side we should look to do this more often.

Henderson, hasn't overly impressed me but he hasn't been THAT bad either. The lad needs time and to me this fella looks much more like an accomplished CM than a RM. At the moment I think the lad is shying away, trying to blend in with the team and play the percentage passes. Unlike Charlie Adam, who seems the exact opposite in mentality and is appearing to try and stand out and be the MAN he was at Blackpool - big fish small pond mentality. Henderson needs more time especially if he's going to be asked to play out wide more often than not. Because of his CM instinctive, he too when played out wide right has drifted centrally inside on a few occasions. This prevents an outlet or a simple pass from our CM to wide positions and makes, at times finding a team mate harder whilst again narrowing play, he needs to hold the shape of the team more and get stuck in a bit more. Adam, to be honest, has IMO looked to stroke his ego more so than amalgamate with team dynamics, he shows flashes of 'good stuff' but thus far, his tackling has been painful and at times horrendous to watch. His passing has been all over the shop but his corners have been good. He needs to calm down a bit and play as a team player, not Roy of the Rovers.

Overall the midfield has at times looked as though it has lacked a bit of creativity. BUT compared to Hodgson's team it definitely IS more creative.  Polar opposites in fact, our midfield are getting MUCH more ample time in possession than they did under Dodgy Hodgy. The whole side seem much more endeavored to attack and try and 'create', and we have had good chances from this too. In time, I think this will come but I do think individually Henderson and Adam respectively have to 'up' their games for different reasons to help this new look Liverpool reach its optimal attacking limits. Defensively, Henderson and Downing have tracked back and have supported their team mates, they do their bit for the team in that regards, no complaints there. The whole midfield do pressure quite well, when we're being attacked in the final third, everyone pulls their weight.



Attack: I think we're still in the trial and error process of finding the right partnership/balance. Personally I have been impressed with the Kuyt/Suarez combo. The movement between the two of them and the apparent understanding looks really positive. Both have linked up quite well with each other and are always in close proximity looking to put the 'other' through, with a flick, knock on, or 1-2. Both are tenacious, both have real energy upfront and pressure defenders and for me they have looked a more accomplished pairing together. Carroll is yet to make an impact (I personally don't care about his price tag) and he was or is unfortunately susceptible to the 'long ball' treatment from players like Carra and Adam. I don't think this necessarily helped him to fit into the dynamics of the team. However, at the same time though he has been poor IMHO with his general play. I know the 'wait until he gets fit again' mantra has been trotted out quite a lot but this can't carry on for too much longer, he should surely be fit, there or thereabouts by now. I hope he will come good, it is weird for me again seeing us having a striker who ultimately plays with his back to goal. Crouch (who did this excellently well IMO) I think was the last striker we had who primarily played like this. Even if  Carroll's  'holding up' and 'bringing others into play' aspects of his game were better this would be a good start for him. For Andy, it's head down bums up, to get working on finding the right solution to and adjustments that will benefit him as a player and the team.

Overall Team Performance: Considering the doom & gloom around here during pre-season due to those really important results we didn't get. I have to say that I am chuffed with the lads and their overall performances, even after the result against Stoke - to keep perspective in check.

Kenny, you can tell has geared this side up to play 'pass & move' football. We're attacking teams, we're dominating teams and our whole approach to matches has been completely turned around since the Hodgson and even Rafa (to a slightly lesser extent) days of football. The Bolton performance for me was absolutely brilliant and the character and endeavour, along with the ability to boss and control Stoke away was great to watch. Yes, we lost, yes we weren't clinical enough, perhaps we could have created more chances but - the willingness to dominate and get at them was there from start to finish was really positive to see. If we continue to play like that, minus the individual errors and an 'upped' game from a couple of midfielders (generally speaking) we'll win more games this season than last.

I'm still quietly optimistic and think we're definitely heading in the right direction. Get 3pts against Spurs and we'll be right back on track.

[SouthCoastShankly]

According to the squad performance thread the average team score for the season is 6.2/10 after 5 games (all competitions).

This pretty much sums it up really. A better than average start but not hit the heights of form yet.

Still warming up.

[Kenny Kan]

According to the squad performance thread the average team score for the season is 6.2/10 after 5 games (all competitions).

This pretty much sums it up really. A better than average start but not hit the heights of form yet.

Still warming up.

6.2

I think those stats usually do give a fairly good indication of how the side is doing.

However, I reckon a 7 would be fairer this time round but I agree we're warming up. Yet, while doing so it looks pretty positive to me.

[stmichael]

Good opening post Bam.

I'd give us a "B" so far. There have definitely been encouraging signs but I agree that in many ways we are still trying to find the right balance, especially in attacking areas. As it stands Carroll has given us a dilemma as we seem to play better with him out the side. We also have the conundrums that are Henderson and Adam. I like both players but some fans seem to have written them off already after 4 games. The fact is they're just like any other footballer in that they'll both have their good and bad days. When Gerrard comes back that's another dilemma we'll have but it's a good one to have at this stage. If you'd told me this time last year that Dirk Kuyt wouldn't be a first team regular this season I'd have laughed at you.

If you look at it we could easily have 12 points out of 12 in the league given a bit of luck. With the exception of the second half against Sunderland we've played pretty well, and that's after they blatantly should have been down to ten men and we missed a penalty. Arsenal was a close game that changed after the sending off but we were excellent defensively anyway and won the game thanks to our impact subs. Bolton and Stoke we completely dominated both games. The Stoke match was just one of those strange games that comes around every now and again when the God's are against you and you can't score. But if you compare it to the dross we served up there a year earlier when we were comfortably beaten it was like night and day. Not even United have gone to the Britannia and dominated to such an extent.

This weekend will be a seriuos indication of our intentions though with regards to top 4. We went to Arsenal and put down a marker and this is another great opportunity with Spurs having made a stuttering start. Considering Spurs are weak at fullback I'd be tempted to start Bellamy for his directness and pace (he also linked up well with Enrique when he came on at the weekend). It'll be interesting to see the side though. Will Carroll start? For me some of the criticism he's got has been way over the top (mainly due to his price tag which isn't his fault). If he plays and scores on Sunday all will be forgotten.

All in all an encouraging start. Could do better though but certainly heading in the right direction.

[Bad Bob]

Agree with a lot of the thread opener, particularly the blossoming Kuyt and Suarez partnership.  Dirk's always been a tireless runner and hard worker, with a knack for sticking a few key goals away a season.  In this side, though, he's showing more inventiveness and attacking guile and at the moment he's proving an excellent foil for Suarez.  He can also slot in anywhere across the pitch and this helps our tactical flexibility--when Suarez, Henderson and Downing move about, looking to find little pockets of space Kuyt is on hand to keep the shape balanced.

[stmichael]

Agree with a lot of the thread opener, particularly the blossoming Kuyt and Suarez partnership.  Dirk's always been a tireless runner and hard worker, with a knack for sticking a few key goals away a season.  In this side, though, he's showing more inventiveness and attacking guile and at the moment he's proving an excellent foil for Suarez.  He can also slot in anywhere across the pitch and this helps our tactical flexibility--when Suarez, Henderson and Downing move about, looking to find little pockets of space Kuyt is on hand to keep the shape balanced.

You could say that about a lot of players. Our flexibility is great now. Against Bolton I saw us playing three, possibly four formations in the same match. We've got Gerrard, Bellamy, Kuyt, Henderson, Downing, Maxi and Suarez who can all operate in wide areas, even though three of the aforementioned are essentially strikers by trade.

[Bad Bob]

The thing that comes to mind most when thinking of our attacking players at the moment is intelligence.  The quality of the movement and the understanding that is developing is very encouraging.  It wasn't so long ago that we were having to put up with Babel's pointless sprints down blind alleys, Pennant's mental sluggishness or Baros's inability to get his head up and anticipate the play.  We've probably sacrificed a bit of pace in the exchange but the match intelligence and excellent movement more than compensates IMO.

[jacdaniel]

Cant really add much more to all of the above.  With a little more luck I think we'd have 10 points. 
Would like to see Downing stay on the left to give us some more width.

A small bit worried about CM but hopefully Adam + Hendo settle down a bit and Gerrard returns in top form.
Also a tad worried about RB.  Kelly and Johnno seem to keep picking up injuries.

Think it will be clearer how good/bad we are after another 5 or 6 games.

[Raoul]

I know it's early but.....

  I miss Big Mick.

Great opening post. Not really much to disagree with you about. I think it is important to keep in mind that we are still a work in progress, and while we all want results, the changes that have been made over the last half year or so have been hugely significant, and more important than any game.

I do think though that a top 4 place this season is a very important goal - it seems that FSG are willing to spend money on players - we now need to be considered a top destination by the players who will ultimately make us top again. Offering CL football is key to that. So while we have some young players on the books and a bunch of new players who have to have time to learn to play together, especially and critically in the middle, the results will need to start coming consistently.

I think they will. I suspect many of us underestimate just how hard 4th will be to earn, but I'm quietly confident that we'll get there by the end of the season.

[red till i die!!]

i agree,good opening post.
defensively we look sound and have still players out injured and we have yet to integrate coates into the team so i would hope we will continue to get stronger as we progress.
the middle is as much a mixed bag as up front in terms of getting a good combination that compliment each other so hopefully when stevie comes back he can fill that void between the two.
all in all things are looking bright going forward.
personally i feel we could have done better points wise,we were great against bolton,the sending off for arsenal helped sway the game in our favour even though they are really struggling.sunderland and stoke proved difficult for us to break down when they set out their stall and even though we performed much better this time at the brittania we still lost and i hoped we would have no bother putting teams like that away this year.
4th place for us this year will be like winning the league and a sure sign that we are progressing under kk.

[tubby]

4 games in and well we have improved since last season. But I would have expected that with Kenny in charge and the money we have spent. I just hope come April we are at either in 4th or thereabouts.

[killerp]

Considering that we have 4-5 new players in the first team, we are doing well in the first few games. As long as the team plays a positive, attacking style of football no complaints here.

[Thommo's perm]

We will gel soon and everyone will be comfy in their role
Rome wasnt built in four games

[Penguins]

The positives:

1. There are encouraging signs of the play and menatality of the team.
2. The defense is looking better than I feared even though Carra's decline is continuing. Agger is healthy, Skrtel has been solid and Enrique very good. And I am sure when Johnson or Kelly gets back the right back position will be looking just as solid.
3. Suarez is really showing how good he is. Will only get better
4. Downing and Enrique is the best left side we've had for many years.

The negatives:

1. If you look at the results(which is the thing that matters) 7 pts is a poor result.
Lasting 1 half vs a midtable Sunderland and drawing is a very poor result.
Beating an Arsenal team in complete disarray at the moment is no big feat either. A big problem so far is that we aren't scoring any goals. Besides a verry poor Bolton we have averaged 1 goal vs Sunderland, Arsenal and Stoke.
2. The new signings have been a mixed bag so far. Sure, they are new, but it was the manager/top brass at the club that decided to dump Aquilani and Meireles and go with the new right away. Our cm is no top class material. Steady Lucas does his job but Adam is soooo slow and tries too hard for the spectacular which he isn't able to handle. Well, I have said enough of Henderson. He'll come good in 3 years. Just have to continue playing him even if he isn't good enough until then....
3. Carra can't Continue to get caught for speed making his regular 1 costly meistake/game.
4. I just hope Caroll can become an intergral part of a successful team. Right now he is neither.

[parchpea]

We are still unpredictable and from one half to the next you are never really quite sure which is the real Liverpool. Good performances against Arsenal and Bolton soured by a poor second half against Sunderland and a huff and puff effort over at Stoke. Dalglish needs to find his best formation and the introduction of Gerrard and Coates will surely be the time we see our best 11 take to the field and click into gear. Until then, I get the feeling we may still be a bit in and out and just need to keep on the fringes of 4th ready to go.