Liverpool FC Forum

[Ciggy]

to answer ciggy - ive had that conversation before, have you forgot

Just I cant even remember what I had for me dinner yesterday

[Judge]

I dont think its right.
Just because someone is unfortunate enough to be born in say Sudan with nothing and is likely to die before being 12 months old,or is born in London to a rich family means nothing to me!
Human life is human life,you cant put value on it by using wealth or social status as a gauge.
Theres no doubt that people in 3rd world countries are having children they cannot feed,but they have feelings too.A starving man and wife can love eachother as much as a rich man and woman with everything.in fact its possible even more so because all they have in some cases is eachother!
They have kids they love just as much as anyone else.
I dont think taking their organs because they have no chance of a good life is fair or will ever happen.
What these people need is education about disesase,especially HIV.They also need contraception and educated on it.Bring the birth rate down= less mouths to feed.
It would be a start!

I think thats the point you're missing Barry, Doctors can and do put a value on life. whether you like it or not Saint is right about one thing ..... It does come down to money at the end of the day.

Probably right mate,the docs probably do!
Does'nt mean I have to agree with it.
Have'nt people been given organs from pigs before..and its worked?
I remember reading something about that...sounds funny but Im sure I did'nt dream it!

animal organ donor breakthru

you can find some answers here baz

[Number 9]

Far better idea than using other humans!
Judge i reckon you'd look well with a pigs head transplanted on!

[Igor Zidane]

My opinion for what it's worth , we have discussions and we have a laugh and a joke about stuff . I can pretty much have a sensible discussion with anyone about anything ,but there are some things i'll just steer well clear of , ie religion ,race and involuntary organ donation(putting it nicely). I totally disagree with where saint is coming from on this , infact i'm at the other end of the spectrum . That doesn't mean that i think that saint is the devil all of a sudden or that i think he shouldn't post his views on the subject on this board . He has put his arguement across and if you don't agree ,well then state why and argue your case and try and persuade the lad to see things from your point of view . Sensible discussion is always healthy , but if your going to put an extreme point of view down on a post , you really should expect extreme responses . As long as it's contributing to healthy discussion(not so healthy for our 3rd world friends)    then that's all well and good .

Bob keep modding lash , your doing fine , you just need to step back abit and take your finger off the trigger . Good on you by the way for admitting that your not perfect , noone is apart from stu we all know that mate.

















By the way , i didn't say why i disagree with saint . THe 3rd world is the wrong place to get your organs ,why go there when Norways around the corner ,right HEIMDALL .


DISCLAIMER ,I AM IN NO WAY SUGGESTING THAT SAINT COMES OVER TO HEIMDALL'S HOUSE AND NICKS HIS ORGANS..

[Ciggy]

Judge i reckon you'd look well with a pigs head transplanted on!

[account deleted by request]

My opinion for what it's worth , we have discussions and we have a laugh and a joke about stuff . I can pretty much have a sensible discussion with anyone about anything ,but there are some things i'll just steer well clear of , ie religion ,race and involuntary organ donation(putting it nicely). I totally disagree with where saint is coming from on this , infact i'm at the other end of the spectrum . That doesn't mean that i think that saint is the devil all of a sudden or that i think he shouldn't post his views on the subject on this board . He has put his arguement across and if you don't agree ,well then state why and argue your case and try and persuade the lad to see things from your point of view . Sensible discussion is always healthy , but if your going to put an extreme point of view down on a post , you really should expect extreme responses . As long as it's contributing to healthy discussion(not so healthy for our 3rd world friends)    then that's all well and good .

Bob keep modding lash , your doing fine , you just need to step back abit and take your finger off the trigger . Good on you by the way for admitting that your not perfect , noone is apart from stu we all know that mate.

















By the way , i didn't say why i disagree with saint . THe 3rd world is the wrong place to get your organs ,why go there when Norways around the corner ,right HEIMDALL .


DISCLAIMER ,I AM IN NO WAY SUGGESTING THAT SAINT COMES OVER TO HEIMDALL'S HOUSE AND NICKS HIS ORGANS..

I never said involuntary Igor! There is a debate going on at the moment to decide if organ donors and blood donors should be paid in this country, I would see no problem in paying them in the 3rd world for their organs in the same way mate. We already buy blood from the U.S.A. (Because the U.S. pays for blood donors they have a surplus)

[account deleted by request]

Does an organ donor have to be alive, to donate an organ or can it be removed within say 12 hrs of death to still be useful ?

If its a kidney you can donate one and still live a normal life, so you can be alive. If its a heart I think they prefer them to be dead before they remove it mate

In most cases its after death Bam or there wouldn't be many donor card holders.

[Bam]

I dont think its right.
Just because someone is unfortunate enough to be born in say Sudan with nothing and is likely to die before being 12 months old,or is born in London to a rich family means nothing to me!
Human life is human life,you cant put value on it by using wealth or social status as a gauge.
Theres no doubt that people in 3rd world countries are having children they cannot feed,but they have feelings too.A starving man and wife can love eachother as much as a rich man and woman with everything.in fact its possible even more so because all they have in some cases is eachother!
They have kids they love just as much as anyone else.
I dont think taking their organs because they have no chance of a good life is fair or will ever happen.
What these people need is education about disesase,especially HIV.They also need contraception and educated on it.Bring the birth rate down= less mouths to feed.
It would be a start!

I think thats the point you're missing Barry, Doctors can and do put a value on life. whether you like it or not Saint is right about one thing ..... It does come down to money at the end of the day.

Probably right mate,the docs probably do!
Does'nt mean I have to agree with it.
Have'nt people been given organs from pigs before..and its worked?
I remember reading something about that...sounds funny but Im sure I did'nt dream it!

Do you agree with abortion Barry ?

[andy_g]

i'm going to try and keep out of the main arguments/discussions about organ harvesting and shooting people - i'll get too riled, put my points across badly in haste and only end up with bad feelings, a nagging guilt, and the sense that my life is drifting away from me one day at a time etc etc etc etc etc....

organ harvesting, whatever your moral stance on it, is pretty much unnecessary. advances in biotechnology have led us to point where the use of organs from pigs or the growing of organs from stem cells are pretty much proven solutions, or at least will be within a very short time frame. there are still ethical considerations of course, as there always will be where the human body, its inner workings, life and death are concerned, but i think they are less grave than saint's proposed solution. an easier approach is to try and convince as many people as possible to carry a donor card and to convince as many stupid adolescents as possible not to destroy their lungs, kidneys and livers before they reach 20 years old.

[Bam]

Does an organ donor have to be alive, to donate an organ or can it be removed within say 12 hrs of death to still be useful ?

If its a kidney you can donate one and still live a normal life, so you can be alive. If its a heart I think they prefer them to be dead before they remove it mate

In most cases its after death Bam or there wouldn't be many donor card holders.

 

So whats wrong with taking Organs from 3rd world people who are brown bread ?

We take organs from Western brown bread people .

Sorry Saint I thought you're gist, was on the trails of breeding humans i.e Africans solely for Organ donars, harvesting ! I didnt realise you meant dead Africans or whomever.

[account deleted by request]

Page last updated at 16:22 GMT, Monday, 24 November 2008

UK stem cell work under threat 
By Michelle Roberts
Health reporter, BBC News 

The UK could lose its place among the world leaders in stem cell research unless adequate funding and legislation is assured, experts warn.

The UK National Stem Cell Network says red tape and poor investment threatens the future of UK stem cell work moving from research to real life therapies.

Scientists in the field say unless the obstacles can be overcome they may be forced to take their work abroad.

UK experts are already using stem cells in patients to cure blindness.

But numerous other projects remain in the pipeline awaiting funding and regulatory go-ahead to move from early animal testing to human trials.


  We must ensure that the way ahead is clear of any unnecessary obstacles that could prevent patients from benefiting as soon as possible

Dr Kieran Breen of the Parkinson's Disease Society

Part of the problem is the technology has advanced much faster than anticipated, which has left regulators to play catch-up, says the UKNSCN.

Currently there is no regulatory framework for the researchers designing the clinical trials to refer to.

Dr Julie Daniels, director of the Cells for Sight Tissue Bank at Moorfields Eye Hospital which is using stem cells to treat blinding ocular surface disorders, said it had been a five-year struggle to get the treatment from the bench into the clinic.

"It's been a very time-consuming, self-learning process.

"It was very hard to gain advice from regulatory bodies. There was no one to ask 'What do we do and how do we comply?'

"And it's been incredibly difficult to find financial support."

Slow progress

Much of the pioneering work in the UK relies on charitable donations and investment from abroad - largely the US and Saudi Arabia.

Professor Pete Coffey, director of the London Project to Cure Blindness at University College London, is investigating stem cell therapy for age-related macular degeneration.

His team has made a bank of stem cells that are ready to be used in humans, with the potential to treat some six million patients.


  When times are hard and money is short there has to be greater scrutiny of what scientists are doing

Josephine Quintaville of Comment on Reproductive Ethics

All of his funding to move the work from the lab into the hospital setting so far has come from the US.

"There's not a single penny in the project as yet from the UK. I want to take this forward as a therapy but progress is slow.

"I have kept the project in the UK for as long as possible, but unless more investment comes in from the UK then this will go to the US," he said.

He said US scientists were pushing ahead and seeking regulatory approval to start safety trials of embryonic stem cells in spinal injury patients next year.

Others are looking at using stem cells taken from adult tissue rather than embryos.

Josephine Quintaville of Comment on Reproductive Ethics, a pro-life public interest group, said there was no scientific or ethical justification for using embryonic stem cells over adult stem cells.

"When times are hard and money is short there has to be greater scrutiny of what scientists are doing.

"We should be working in collaboration across Europe. We should be pooling resources, not competing."

Dr Kieran Breen, director of research and development at the Parkinson's Disease Society, said: "Stem cell research offers hope for sufferers of a number of currently incurable diseases.

"There is clearly more research and work needed before we will know exactly what therapies will be of most benefit.

"However, we must ensure that the way ahead is clear of any unnecessary obstacles that could prevent patients from benefiting as soon as possible."

A Department of Health spokesperson said: "The Department of Health believes that stem cell research offers enormous potential to deliver new treatments for diseases and is spending more than £40m a year on all types of research.

"The Department of Health and its Gene Therapy Advisory Committee are currently working with other regulators in the field to produce a 'Regulatory Route Map' to provide further clarity on the regulatory requirements for the clinical use of stem cells."

The Medical Research Council said it was unaware of any clinical studies or trials that had been held up by regulatory procedures.

BBC ONLINE

[maypaxvobiscum]

Saint has argued and reasoned his stance very very well. its a pity it has to be on an introduction thread though.
but in all seriousness i do see what Saint is trying to say and i agree with him.
but wouldnt taking organs from 3rd world countries sort of create a caste system whereby some are considered more valued than the others?

[Judge]

Far better idea than using other humans!
Judge i reckon you'd look well with a pigs head transplanted on!

i had a dick transplanted in place of my nose, so when i go to fancy dress parties and someone asks what ive come as - i say fuck nose and walk off

that'll be right for you baz

[Judge]

post in gen chat now folks

[supersub]

Judge gets a new makeover after joining Saint's 3rd World Organ Harvest Festival Scheme