Liverpool FC Forum

[Thommo's perm]

Skrtel has been immense so I would keep him. The jury's still out on Sakho and Flano's still learning
Cissokho isnt good enough and once again Johnson has let us down badly. Lucas is finished as well.

[red till i die!!]

I am absolutely amazed by some of the posts on here, lets be realistic, we cant get rid of 10 players as our squad is wafer thin as it is, we need to bring in 3 - 4 four world class players but we also need squad players as well. The last thing we want to do is what Spurs did this season. By all means sell a few poor performers we can get some funds for but not a wholesale clearout.

Agree, we need to build the squad.

we needed to do better in the markets since rodgers came in and we failed to do that, that is a major reason why we are so light now. a lot of money has been spent with little improvement on players like allen, borini, assaidi, mingy, sakho, alberto, aspas, llori, even our loan deals are p!$$ poor.
we should have built the squad last summer and in january so we can do whats needed now and thats buy quality for the CL, we have a lot to do now and maybe not the money or time to do it.

[Johnny Boy]

Some of Rodgers' buys have been a bit questionable.

Alberto has hardly had a chance, Aspas the same and hasn't looked good enough when he has featured, Ilori has apparently been doing well in Spain but whether that means he has a future I don't know - if not why sign him? Assaidi fits into the same bracket as Alberto and Sakho for what he cost I am not convinced by him yet at all.
Borini cost close to 10m also - maybe a useful back up.

Must admit before last night I was thinking we need a left midfielder/winger, left back, a dominant powerful centre midfielder and maybe depending on the centre back situation another player in there, but how many do we buy before it's sorted, we brought in 3 centre backs last year.

I think the biggest issue last night was the protection the center backs got, or lack of - Johnson and Flanagan leave us too exposed and we lack that strong, physical athlete also. Henderson was obviously missed.

Lucas for me isn't the same player, Toure, Moses, Jones, Reina, Agger (good player but so injury prone), Assaidi should go. Johnson maybe too and even though he was injured all year I am not a big fan of Enrique.

Full backs, centre half, left winger, centre mid - need attention in the summer.

[maypaxvobiscum]

Agger must stay. He's the only leader we have in the team who can organize the defense. Gerrard isn't vocal enough and Mignolet has no balls.

[LFC1990]

I would keep Borini but tell him not to expect to start many games.

Johnson the day he goes I will have a party the guys is utter *****.

Need to strengthen the defence.Toure hasnt  given us much, Would have Rather seen Ilori play and get some experience.

Moses and Cissohko both go back to their clubs and ship Reina off to Barcelona.

One of Skrtel or Agger will have to go

[devaney]

Unless Barca come in with a decent offer I don't think Agger will be sold. Skrtel with the right players around him can do a decent job. Johnson has gone so far off the graph that he desperately needs replacing with somebody of real quality. We also need an upgrade on Flanaghan who will be useful as a squad player. Flanaghan has done a reasonable job but is he really at the level we are aspiring to? We also need another decent midfield player like Barkley    The lack of Henderson in the last three games proves the point. Lucas is ok as a squad player but as much as I like the lad he doesn't quite posses what we really need.

[Doeboy]

Yesterdays game summed up Johnson for me. For 70-75 mins looked very good and the last 15 just lost it. Jerkyl and Hyde kind of player. Has moments where he looks real quality and then other moments where he looks poor.The poole of players we can go for now will be larger with CL in the bag, so if we can upgrade on him, i'm all for it

[ConnO'var]

For me,

1. Glenn Johnson - sorry as I seldom do this to a player wearing our jersey but he is absolute sh!te and a complete mercenary.
2. Skrtel - Too much of a liability and cannot organize the defense properly. Communications, positioning and decision making, extremly poor.
3. Lucas - Have always been a supporter but he's not been the same since his injury and we need much better.

And finally, while I know, this is controversial, Daniel Sturridge. Too much of a form player and a prima donnoesque type of attitude IMHO. Not the type of player we need when the chips are down and the pressure on. Mentally weak.

[maypaxvobiscum]

For me,

1. Glenn Johnson - sorry as I seldom do this to a player wearing our jersey but he is absolute sh!te and a complete mercenary.
2. Skrtel - Too much of a liability and cannot organize the defense properly. Communications, positioning and decision making, extremly poor.
3. Lucas - Have always been a supporter but he's not been the same since his injury and we need much better.

And finally, while I know, this is controversial, Daniel Sturridge. Too much of a form player and a prima donnoesque type of attitude IMHO. Not the type of player we need when the chips are down and the pressure on. Mentally weak.

Glad you aren't our manager then. Let's just get rid of 2 players who have been immense this season - Skrtel and Sturridge, and keep the likes of Aspas, Assaidi, Ngoo and Coates. Brilliant, just brilliant 

[ConnO'var]

For me,

1. Glenn Johnson - sorry as I seldom do this to a player wearing our jersey but he is absolute sh!te and a complete mercenary.
2. Skrtel - Too much of a liability and cannot organize the defense properly. Communications, positioning and decision making, extremly poor.
3. Lucas - Have always been a supporter but he's not been the same since his injury and we need much better.

And finally, while I know, this is controversial, Daniel Sturridge. Too much of a form player and a prima donnoesque type of attitude IMHO. Not the type of player we need when the chips are down and the pressure on. Mentally weak.

Glad you aren't our manager then. Let's just get rid of 2 players who have been immense this season - Skrtel and Sturridge, and keep the likes of Aspas, Assaidi, Ngoo and Coates. Brilliant, just brilliant 

Thanks. Much appreciated.

My opinion and with reasons given. Not the gospel truth or cast in stone. What are yours and your reasons?

I have only chosen and explained about the first teamers and the bench. We can't have a wholesale of everyone else as we are competing on 4 fronts next year. If we did auction everyone off, where will that leave us?

I think the Glen Johnson case is clear to everyone... he would not even be good coming off the bench. We only have Enrique and Flannagan as back up. So the defensive flanks we defintely need to put priority on.... as i am advocating a sale of one of the 3.

Skrtel is a defensive liability IMO. Yes, he has had his moments going forward but according to me, the more important part of his game should be defending... and that he does not do well enough and he has also been a large contributing factor to the reasons why we leak so many goals. Yes, the Glen Johnson and Cissohoko flanks are an issue and yes the midfield does not provide as good a protection as I would like but fact of the matter is, he gets the basics wrong too often for me to be comfortable when he is on.

Lucas, I have always been a fan of and in a system where we are plodding along defensively, he would be good... but in our current setup, he cannot cope and gives away far too many free kicks which puts our already leaky defence under tremendous pressure. Also, as previously stated, he has not been the same player he was since the injury.

As I said on the Sturridge point, I knew that this would be controversial. My reasons are as follows. He is a form type player. When things go swimmingly, he can be devastating,. But when things don't, he is not a player one can rely upon. Mentally weak and my gut tells me that he is a 2nd Glen Johnson in the making. No fortitude and no desire and under pressure, a liability..... IMO. We should cash in on him while his value is high and get a proper partner for Luis....

Those are the reasons that I put up in answer to the question put up by the first poster... for discussion. So lets discuss... what are your reasons for disagreeing? Surely a law student is capable of articulating his point across better than a statement lead with "I'm glad that you're not the manager then!"

[maypaxvobiscum]

I was just messing with you Conn, hence the smiley. Anyway since you asked, here are the players whom should leave and the reasons:

Sebastian Coates - He was once viewed as a bright prospect with huge potential, but he's already turning 24 and there's better players out there, and even within the reserves, who could do be better job. I'm sure there are plenty of South American teams who would want him seeing that he was their Player of the Year or Young Player of the Year.

Martin Kelly - Same as Coates. Not been the same since his injury. Approaching 24 and there's better players such as Wisdom, Ilori and McLaughlin who can do the job.

Iago Aspas - Doesn't offer anything to the attack. Lightweight.

Michael Ngoo - He's 21 and if he can't make the bench despite the limited options we have in attack, there's no point keeping him.

Lucas - We've performed a lot better when he isn't in the team. He's been playing the last 3 games in Henderson's absence and the disparity is huge. He offers nothing in attack and commits silly tackles in dangerous areas. He doesn't score goals and he doesn't start attacks. In the system we play, we need all of our midfielders to be versatile and be able to contribute on all fronts but he lacks the energy and ability to do so.

Oussama Assaidi - Weirdest signing ever. He's scored a couple of goals for Stoke but he's been injured most of the time I think. Not sure if Stoke wants him permanently but he should go seeing that Joao Carlos, Suso and Ibe are likely to be ahead of him.

Glen Johnson - I'm saddened by this one but he has to go for reasons already pointed out by everyone else.

Of the above 7 I've mentioned, Coates, Kelly, Ngoo and Assaidi have no impact on the first team or bench so their departure will not make a difference as we've got good players in the reserves who can take their place. As for Aspas, he's rarely played to begin with so no loss either. The only prominent departures would be that of GJ and Lucas.

However, all the 7 can be easily replaced by buying new players or promoting youth. Coates and Kelly can be replaced by Ilori, Wisdom, Sama and McLaughlin. Aspas, Assaidi and Ngoo can be replaced by Joao Carlos, Suso, Ibe, Borini and Yesil. There's really no difference in quality but at least we're reducing the number of players in the team. I believe we've got around 42 players at the moment?

As for Lucas and GJ, a top replacement is needed. Players like Draxler, Reus, Rakitic, Barkley, Coleman, Coentrao, Rodriguez and Shaw. If we're gonna buy new players, it's essential that they are better than what we already have. Which is why I don't understand why you wanna sell Sturridge and Skrtel. It's better to keep those 2 and have them on the bench rather than sell them and have Aspas and Coates on the bench obviously. This way, we improve the squad, and the first team concurrently. Otherwise if things were done your way, we'll still have a strong first team but incompetency on the bench.

I've not mentioned Reina because he's a tricky one but I would like him to stay and compete with Mignolet for the #1 spot.

[devaney]

Interesting post Max and I agree with virtually all of it.

Conn I really can't agree with your suggestion to sell Danny Sturridge. He has been fantastic this season. Bourinho's comments about Hazard come to mind. You seem to be expecting Danny to suddenly become a defensive player when we are struggling to hang on to a lead. How many goals have our defensive players scored this season, other than Skrtel, who you also want to get rid of. When we desperately need goals we certainly can't rely on the defenders for much help. I think your comments about his attitude and his mentality are very harsh.

Now back to Skrtel who I honestly think has been one of our best players this season. Yes he makes mistakes but he also does an incredible amount of excellent work. Strikers miss simple shots on goal and they don't get the same criticism that MS receives. Moses could have rescued the Palace match with a late tap in and all he managed was an air shot! Skrtel's goals this season have also been a very useful contribution. In fact he has scored more goals than Torres. What the lad really needs is some extra quality alongside him. When Agger plays we don't concede as many goals. BR doesn't seem keen on Agger so a massive upgrade is needed and unfortunately as yet I don't think Sakho is the answer. Both fullbacks also need seriously upgrading especially Johnson. Just when was the last time Johnson scored? He is regarded as an attacking fullback and he does have his moments going forward but generally the end product leaves a lot to be desire. I have always liked Glen but unfortunately his best years are behind him. Flanaghan is a young lad who makes plenty of mistakes but doesn't get the Skrtel treatment probably because he is young and a scouser ! Both Johnson and Flanaghan keep their places because we have virtually nobody to replace them.

[Stu the Red]

For me,

1. Glenn Johnson - sorry as I seldom do this to a player wearing our jersey but he is absolute sh!te and a complete mercenary.
2. Skrtel - Too much of a liability and cannot organize the defense properly. Communications, positioning and decision making, extremly poor.
3. Lucas - Have always been a supporter but he's not been the same since his injury and we need much better.

And finally, while I know, this is controversial, Daniel Sturridge. Too much of a form player and a prima donnoesque type of attitude IMHO. Not the type of player we need when the chips are down and the pressure on. Mentally weak.

Agree with you on the first three, obviously there are others and personally I think a major overhaul and some wheeling and dealing is required... however, I don't believe the first eleven needs a major overhaul. I think with three additions we could right up there again next season.

On Sturridge I also agree with your general points about his attitude. I don't believe he can be relied upon to produce when you really need it or a goal down and I agree with your statement about him being a form player.

However... I don't believe we should sell, unless, someone offers STUPID money, IE in the region of 30,000,000. He is still a very good player and has had a fine season, I do believe personally the attitude problems can be managed with substitute appearances and not starting a lot of games, I think you'd see more from him if he "has a point to prove" and him being more of an impact player rather than an out an out first 11 every week. I personally don't believe we'd miss him as much as people think we would as we started our good run of form with Suarez through the middle, Sterling right and Coutinho left.

For me, I'd be a lot more upset at losing Sterling over Sturridge.

[leeroy74]

for me....     Moses has to go. He's not shown anything for us but I wouldn't expect him to...  being a chelsea player. I don't like him coming on with 10 minutes left when we're trying to win the game because of conflict of interest. He then looks half ar$ed and makes no impact.

ship him back to Stammerford bridge with a note saying "thanks but no thanks"

[Stu the Red]

Interesting post Max and I agree with virtually all of it.

Conn I really can't agree with your suggestion to sell Danny Sturridge. He has been fantastic this season. Bourinho's comments about Hazard come to mind. You seem to be expecting Danny to suddenly become a defensive player when we are struggling to hang on to a lead. How many goals have our defensive players scored this season, other than Skrtel, who you also want to get rid of. When we desperately need goals we certainly can't rely on the defenders for much help. I think your comments about his attitude and his mentality are very harsh.

Now back to Skrtel who I honestly think has been one of our best players this season. Yes he makes mistakes but he also does an incredible amount of excellent work. Strikers miss simple shots on goal and they don't get the same criticism that MS receives. Moses could have rescued the Palace match with a late tap in and all he managed was an air shot! Skrtel's goals this season have also been a very useful contribution. In fact he has scored more goals than Torres. What the lad really needs is some extra quality alongside him. When Agger plays we don't concede as many goals. BR doesn't seem keen on Agger so a massive upgrade is needed and unfortunately as yet I don't think Sakho is the answer. Both fullbacks also need seriously upgrading especially Johnson. Just when was the last time Johnson scored? He is regarded as an attacking fullback and he does have his moments going forward but generally the end product leaves a lot to be desire. I have always liked Glen but unfortunately his best years are behind him. Flanaghan is a young lad who makes plenty of mistakes but doesn't get the Skrtel treatment probably because he is young and a scouser ! Both Johnson and Flanaghan keep their places because we have virtually nobody to replace them.

Devaney, I don't believe that Con is stating he wants Sturridge to all of a sudden become defensive. I think he's stating more along the lines of he wants to be the centre of attention and wants all the glory for himself and when the chips are down, he can't be relied on to pull you out of the sh*t. Which is something I agree with.

Sturridge has had a great season in terms of goals, he's shown some real ability at times but I do believe his weaknesses will cost us at important times. He was very careless for Chelsea's second goal and again took too long on the ball, which is something I've pointed out a lot this season and it finally contributed to costing us an important goal in that game (I'm not soley blaming him for the goal or the collapse our title challenge before any muppet starts) but his usual dilly dallying on the ball did contribute to us conceding that goal. And before you or anyone else brings Gerrard into it, anyone can slip over, not everyone loses possession so carelessly when there are four or five options on due to having an over inflated ego.

For me, the lad is a good player, but he's the sort of player I'd rather have on my bench than in my first 11 (and yes I do view three or four players on the bench as important to the team/squad) as they need to have the ability to step in when we have injuries. The point being, if Sturridge was our fourth choice attacker behind Sterling, Suarez and someone like Pedro, we'd probably have the best attacking options in Europe.

On Skrtel, again we come back to his mistakes. He has ability to an extent, but he has MAJOR weaknesses. He very often makes quality challenges, wins balls most couldn't and scores some fantastic headers. He also goes for ball's no other defender would because they know they can't win it, Its a bit similar to Sturridges need to score a goal, its like he needs to try the impossible tackle every time, he also gets caught badly out of position and makes absolutely silly decisions that are often of an amateurish standard. Anyone can make a mistake, but its all about the quality of the mistake made and Skrtel's mistakes are usually of a very very poor standard. If you remember when I pointed out about the City goal Negredo scored when I questioned his movement and decision making, for me, he's been doing that sort of thing for years and it leaves team mates massively exposed and often he takes them out of the game and makes their correct decisions redundant. He often turns straight forward situations for the opposition into goalscoring chances due to these rash and silly mistakes. In general play he's pretty good, he has good games where you look at him and think... yeah, he's quality, but far to often over the last five years he's cost us silly stupid p!ss poor goals. He's a long way from being as good as a lot of Liverpool fans think he is.

While this season has been his best, the fact we've conceded nearly 50 in the league says everything you need to know. I firmly believe if you replace Johnson, Skrtel and Mignolet with better players we'd have conceeded around 37 or 38 goals. Far to many times this season we've had to score 3 and 4 goals to actually win a game. Some of it is down to the midfield and the shape, I have no complaints when the system is generally at fault or a midfielder is, but more often than not its been down to a lack of defensive quality, individual errors and a lack of strategy at the back (which is something I believe Jamie Carragher said the other day and is something I started a thread on earlier in the season). The fact is, we aren't capable of keeping a clean sheet against the best sides, where as against us, they're more than capable.

On Johnson, I believe he has a clause in his contract stating he must play when fit. Hence the reason he's often played at left back when Flanno or Kelly have performed ok and Enrique has found himself the one sacrificed. However, he's absolutely gash. He's a joke quite frankly and the sooner he's out the door the better. Not been a fan for three or four years and his lack of ability is finally showing since he seems to have lost his yard of pace. The lads an awful player.

I believe Enrique is the answer at left back, I really do and I think had he played most of the season we'd have been better off for it. I also believe Flanno is more than capable as back up for either side. We do need to sign a quality full back, right side is the priority.

Moving to Sahko, I still am undecided, however, one thing I'm sure of is he's no worse than Skrtel. I believe with a good partner, a leader and an organiser he'd do well. I'm much more willing to give a young centre half who's occassionally shown promise in his first season another year than I would be someone who's been here for five years and never performed to an acceptable standard for a season.