Who needs to go?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby ConnO'var » Wed May 07, 2014 9:32 am

maypaxvobiscum » Wed May 07, 2014 5:46 am wrote:I was just messing with you Conn, hence the smiley. Anyway since you asked, here are the players whom should leave and the reasons:

Sebastian Coates - He was once viewed as a bright prospect with huge potential, but he's already turning 24 and there's better players out there, and even within the reserves, who could do be better job. I'm sure there are plenty of South American teams who would want him seeing that he was their Player of the Year or Young Player of the Year.

Martin Kelly - Same as Coates. Not been the same since his injury. Approaching 24 and there's better players such as Wisdom, Ilori and McLaughlin who can do the job.

Iago Aspas - Doesn't offer anything to the attack. Lightweight.

Michael Ngoo - He's 21 and if he can't make the bench despite the limited options we have in attack, there's no point keeping him.

Lucas - We've performed a lot better when he isn't in the team. He's been playing the last 3 games in Henderson's absence and the disparity is huge. He offers nothing in attack and commits silly tackles in dangerous areas. He doesn't score goals and he doesn't start attacks. In the system we play, we need all of our midfielders to be versatile and be able to contribute on all fronts but he lacks the energy and ability to do so.

Oussama Assaidi - Weirdest signing ever. He's scored a couple of goals for Stoke but he's been injured most of the time I think. Not sure if Stoke wants him permanently but he should go seeing that Joao Carlos, Suso and Ibe are likely to be ahead of him.

Glen Johnson - I'm saddened by this one but he has to go for reasons already pointed out by everyone else.

Of the above 7 I've mentioned, Coates, Kelly, Ngoo and Assaidi have no impact on the first team or bench so their departure will not make a difference as we've got good players in the reserves who can take their place. As for Aspas, he's rarely played to begin with so no loss either. The only prominent departures would be that of GJ and Lucas.

However, all the 7 can be easily replaced by buying new players or promoting youth. Coates and Kelly can be replaced by Ilori, Wisdom, Sama and McLaughlin. Aspas, Assaidi and Ngoo can be replaced by Joao Carlos, Suso, Ibe, Borini and Yesil. There's really no difference in quality but at least we're reducing the number of players in the team. I believe we've got around 42 players at the moment?

As for Lucas and GJ, a top replacement is needed. Players like Draxler, Reus, Rakitic, Barkley, Coleman, Coentrao, Rodriguez and Shaw. If we're gonna buy new players, it's essential that they are better than what we already have. Which is why I don't understand why you wanna sell Sturridge and Skrtel. It's better to keep those 2 and have them on the bench rather than sell them and have Aspas and Coates on the bench obviously. This way, we improve the squad, and the first team concurrently. Otherwise if things were done your way, we'll still have a strong first team but incompetency on the bench.

I've not mentioned Reina because he's a tricky one but I would like him to stay and compete with Mignolet for the #1 spot.



No worries mate.... and i do take your point about too many of the players on the peripehery being not good enough. We were very lucky with injuriesthis year. On any other year, our bench players would have cost us 4th not to mention first. But we will need a bench when we go on all 4 fronts next year. Too do a complete yard sale and start afresh would be suicide as I don't believe we have the financial muscle to get 8 or 9 players who will improve us.... I think we need quality in the form of 3 or 4 positions. another left or right fullback.... a centrehalf... a centremid and another attacker. I hope Illori is deemed ok... I have seen a few of the matches he's played and I believe he is quality. Just need to confirm if he can handle the bright spotlights of playing for the big teams.
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Postby ConnO'var » Wed May 07, 2014 9:38 am

devaney » Wed May 07, 2014 6:45 am wrote:
Conn I really can't agree with your suggestion to sell Danny Sturridge. He has been fantastic this season. Bourinho's comments about Hazard come to mind. You seem to be expecting Danny to suddenly become a defensive player when we are struggling to hang on to a lead. How many goals have our defensive players scored this season, other than Skrtel, who you also want to get rid of. When we desperately need goals we certainly can't rely on the defenders for much help. I think your comments about his attitude and his mentality are very harsh.


I am not suggesting that he is lacking in his defensive duties Dev...... I am actually expecting him to produce when the chips are down but i have reservations about his ability to do that. He does not have the desire and mental fortitude to dig in and tough it out under pressure. I feel that he is too much of a fair weather player..... in the middle of a thunderstorm, i doubt he will charge uphill against the guns.... he tends to hide behind the nearest tree trunk.

And to address Stu's point about not selling him unless a stupid offer came about, I will concede the point. Stu is right.... we should not shortchange ourselves..... but if an offer of around 25 million quid came around for him, we should seriously consider it.
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Postby devaney » Wed May 07, 2014 1:26 pm

So we want it every which way. The player according to Stu and yourself has serious weaknesses but the asking price should be north of £25m if we were to sell him. Not actually peanuts for an impact sub !! I certainly agree that like every single player in the team that Danny can improve in certain areas. Man City and especially Chelsea must be asking themselves a few questions considering his improvement under BR, which I believe will continue. We have employed the services of a highly skilled head man who Danny has publicly stated as a key reason for his improvement. Early days in my opinion to consider selling him.
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years 20/21 to 24/25  (10 years
are in brackets 15/16 to 24/25 )
LFC €300m (€420m)
Everton +€33m (€211m)
Arsenal €557m (€853m)
Spurs €571m (€684m)
Chelsea €945m (€1051m)
Man City €370m (€1038m)
Man United €687m (€1240m)
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Postby ConnO'var » Wed May 07, 2014 2:33 pm

I am afraid that we shall have to agree to disagree on Dan mate. If we can get the price I've stated, I believe we should move him on. Otherwise keep him... but if he ends up on the bench, I guarantee you he will sulk. I would rather cash in on him while his stock value is high. Hopefully he proves me wrong but I believe that he will get found out sooner rather than later... and we will most probably see it in the WC.
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Postby Stu the Red » Wed May 07, 2014 2:44 pm

ConnO'var » Wed May 07, 2014 2:33 pm wrote:I am afraid that we shall have to agree to disagree on Dan mate. If we can get the price I've stated, I believe we should move him on. Otherwise keep him... but if he ends up on the bench, I guarantee you he will sulk. I would rather cash in on him while his stock value is high. Hopefully he proves me wrong but I believe that he will get found out sooner rather than later... and we will most probably see it in the WC.


I do think you're being harsh on Sturridge to be honest. He would sulk at being on the bench more often than not I agree, his ego allows him to believe he's better than he actually is, however I think he's a fair bit better than you're giving him credit for.

On saying that, he's absolutely nowhere near the standard of player most on here would have you believe either. He's a good player, capable of very good performances on his day and capable of absolute shockers when he can't be arsed. He will however always score goals, although I don't believe he'll continuously score important goals throughout his career.

As for Chelsea and City and regretting getting rid I disagree. Mourinho would want someone better than him to lead his line and City have the second best forward in the league in Aguero. Sturridge is not what I'd call a top class striker. He's probably a bit below the likes of Andy Cole at his best and around the same level as Defoe. For me, he's not much better than someone like Crouchie was at his best (very different players, but about the same standard).
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Postby devaney » Wed May 07, 2014 3:05 pm

I did say especially Chelsea Stu. Danny may have just been what they needed this season given that they have struggled to score goals. When Luis was out for the first 5 games of the season Danny did just fine. In fact he scored 5 goals. He impressed so much that he gave BR a pleasant problem knowing how to fit Sterling, Coutinho and Sturridge into the side when Luis returned from his nibbling ban. Rodger's decided to go for all out attack and use them all which seemed to work just fine. Yet you're suggesting along with Conn to sell Sturridge if we received a decent offer and Max is questioning Coutinho's consistency. I think some people have forgotten that only two years ago we couldn't hit a horses ar.se with a banjo. Even Luis was struggling to find the back of the net partly because of the players he had around him at that time.
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years 20/21 to 24/25  (10 years
are in brackets 15/16 to 24/25 )
LFC €300m (€420m)
Everton +€33m (€211m)
Arsenal €557m (€853m)
Spurs €571m (€684m)
Chelsea €945m (€1051m)
Man City €370m (€1038m)
Man United €687m (€1240m)
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Postby ConnO'var » Wed May 07, 2014 3:13 pm

Stu the Red » Wed May 07, 2014 1:44 pm wrote:
ConnO'var » Wed May 07, 2014 2:33 pm wrote:I am afraid that we shall have to agree to disagree on Dan mate. If we can get the price I've stated, I believe we should move him on. Otherwise keep him... but if he ends up on the bench, I guarantee you he will sulk. I would rather cash in on him while his stock value is high. Hopefully he proves me wrong but I believe that he will get found out sooner rather than later... and we will most probably see it in the WC.


I do think you're being harsh on Sturridge to be honest. He would sulk at being on the bench more often than not I agree, his ego allows him to believe he's better than he actually is, however I think he's a fair bit better than you're giving him credit for.

On saying that, he's absolutely nowhere near the standard of player most on here would have you believe either. He's a good player, capable of very good performances on his day and capable of absolute shockers when he can't be arsed. He will however always score goals, although I don't believe he'll continuously score important goals throughout his career.

As for Chelsea and City and regretting getting rid I disagree. Mourinho would want someone better than him to lead his line and City have the second best forward in the league in Aguero. Sturridge is not what I'd call a top class striker. He's probably a bit below the likes of Andy Cole at his best and around the same level as Defoe. For me, he's not much better than someone like Crouchie was at his best (very different players, but about the same standard).


I am not saying he does not have talent Stu... he does....But I don't think talent alone is everything. All the talent in the world would not help you if you weren't tough enough mentally or have the discipline required to be a truly top class player. The league has historically been littered with examples... Gascoigne... insanely talented but dumb as an ox and emotionally retarded.... Barton... talented but ill disciplined and I am sure you can probably name much more. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Dan is as bad as those two... not by a long chalk! All I am saying is that he will get to a stage when he can't be arsed or get surly when things aren't going his way... And I believe that we need better as a consistent partner for Luis.

I do appreciate all that he has done this season and he does deserves the plaudits coming his way... Just like when skrtel did a few years back.... but form will not last forever and most people will revert to type.... remember Clive Allen in that astounding year for Spurs? He never ever came close to another like it. Bacause that year, his form set a false level of his ability. Dan is in the throes of one of those years methinks... It will be tough for him to replicate it again.... at least that's what I think... I sincerely hope for our sakes, that if we keep him, that I am SOOOOOO WRONG and I will stand up and be the first one to say so if he does prove me wrong...... Unfortunately for us, I don't think he will.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed May 07, 2014 3:47 pm

No way would I be selling Sturridge, this isn't a one or two month hot streak that he's on, the lad has been banging goals in for 18 months straight. Our forward line is generally regarded as the best in this country and maybe even in Europe so I'm not sure why fans are focussing on the one area of the team that doesn't need fixing.
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Postby devaney » Wed May 07, 2014 3:49 pm

Conn mate my last word is that Danny has been with us for one and a half seasons. In that time he has played 36 games and scored 31 goals. I will start worrying when I see any prolonged evidence to suggest that you are right. Danny makes poor decisions at times in the same way as every other player. Yes he through the dummy when he was taken off against Everton and he later apologised. The lad was chasing a hat-trick and he had missed a penalty. Naturally he was a tad frustrated. His contribution in that match was immense yet the press were more interested in his display of petulance.
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years 20/21 to 24/25  (10 years
are in brackets 15/16 to 24/25 )
LFC €300m (€420m)
Everton +€33m (€211m)
Arsenal €557m (€853m)
Spurs €571m (€684m)
Chelsea €945m (€1051m)
Man City €370m (€1038m)
Man United €687m (€1240m)
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Postby only me » Wed May 07, 2014 3:56 pm

ConnO'var » Wed May 07, 2014 2:13 pm wrote:
Stu the Red » Wed May 07, 2014 1:44 pm wrote:
ConnO'var » Wed May 07, 2014 2:33 pm wrote:I am afraid that we shall have to agree to disagree on Dan mate. If we can get the price I've stated, I believe we should move him on. Otherwise keep him... but if he ends up on the bench, I guarantee you he will sulk. I would rather cash in on him while his stock value is high. Hopefully he proves me wrong but I believe that he will get found out sooner rather than later... and we will most probably see it in the WC.


I do think you're being harsh on Sturridge to be honest. He would sulk at being on the bench more often than not I agree, his ego allows him to believe he's better than he actually is, however I think he's a fair bit better than you're giving him credit for.

On saying that, he's absolutely nowhere near the standard of player most on here would have you believe either. He's a good player, capable of very good performances on his day and capable of absolute shockers when he can't be arsed. He will however always score goals, although I don't believe he'll continuously score important goals throughout his career.

As for Chelsea and City and regretting getting rid I disagree. Mourinho would want someone better than him to lead his line and City have the second best forward in the league in Aguero. Sturridge is not what I'd call a top class striker. He's probably a bit below the likes of Andy Cole at his best and around the same level as Defoe. For me, he's not much better than someone like Crouchie was at his best (very different players, but about the same standard).


I am not saying he does not have talent Stu... he does....But I don't think talent alone is everything. All the talent in the world would not help you if you weren't tough enough mentally or have the discipline required to be a truly top class player. The league has historically been littered with examples... Gascoigne... insanely talented but dumb as an ox and emotionally retarded.... Barton... talented but ill disciplined and I am sure you can probably name much more. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Dan is as bad as those two... not by a long chalk! All I am saying is that he will get to a stage when he can't be arsed or get surly when things aren't going his way... And I believe that we need better as a consistent partner for Luis.

I do appreciate all that he has done this season and he does deserves the plaudits coming his way... Just like when skrtel did a few years back.... but form will not last forever and most people will revert to type.... remember Clive Allen in that astounding year for Spurs? He never ever came close to another like it. Bacause that year, his form set a false level of his ability. Dan is in the throes of one of those years methinks... It will be tough for him to replicate it again.... at least that's what I think... I sincerely hope for our sakes, that if we keep him, that I am SOOOOOO WRONG and I will stand up and be the first one to say so if he does prove me wrong...... Unfortunately for us, I don't think he will.


Sorry you don't release a 20+ goals scoring machine just because you foresee a problematic future ,it's plain madness ,sorry. We are all perfectly aware of his problematic character at times but his talent needs to be harnessed and managed.(remind you of another striker in our team?). The solution is simple ,bring another top notch striker maintain a healthy competition and rotate the position if needed.
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Postby kazza » Wed May 07, 2014 9:00 pm

Danny is fast, has good technique, has proved he can finish and is a good athlete. His only knock is his " attitude" which some say will cause a problem but remember he is young. He will mellow out as he gets older and I think he is a keeper. I think him and Luis works well as a partnership. I worry more about the form of Suarez next year after the WC than Dan as I cannot see how he can be as good again as he was first half of this season and frankly he may not even be here next season so selling him would be crazy.
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Postby leeroy74 » Thu May 08, 2014 3:11 pm

who the feck suggesting selling Sturridge? get yersen off lad!
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Postby Santa » Thu May 08, 2014 5:59 pm

ConnO'var » Wed May 07, 2014 8:38 am wrote:.... we should not shortchange ourselves..... but if an offer of around 25 million quid came around for him, we should seriously consider it.


I don't get it...you just don't sell the second highest scorer in the league unless you've a better one to replace him already, which we don't and we can't afford. For the type of game we play, it is easy to see Rodgers put a lot of weight in his attacking players so the chance of us selling Daniel is close to nil, unless you think we are a feeder club like Southampton who need to sell to balance our book?

The nerve of you to banish a figure of £25M for us to sell when the likes of Luke Shaw is being spoken of at over £35M. If that's not short changing yourself and shoot your own feet, then I don't know what it is. So please instead of slagging Daniel off and painting a very grim picture of him in the future, maybe the expert in you could suggest which player we should we sign that will do better than what Daniel already done for us this season?  Please...one name? :no
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Thu May 08, 2014 6:28 pm

ConnO'var » Wed May 07, 2014 8:32 am wrote:
maypaxvobiscum » Wed May 07, 2014 5:46 am wrote:I was just messing with you Conn, hence the smiley. Anyway since you asked, here are the players whom should leave and the reasons:

Sebastian Coates - He was once viewed as a bright prospect with huge potential, but he's already turning 24 and there's better players out there, and even within the reserves, who could do be better job. I'm sure there are plenty of South American teams who would want him seeing that he was their Player of the Year or Young Player of the Year.

Martin Kelly - Same as Coates. Not been the same since his injury. Approaching 24 and there's better players such as Wisdom, Ilori and McLaughlin who can do the job.

Iago Aspas - Doesn't offer anything to the attack. Lightweight.

Michael Ngoo - He's 21 and if he can't make the bench despite the limited options we have in attack, there's no point keeping him.

Lucas - We've performed a lot better when he isn't in the team. He's been playing the last 3 games in Henderson's absence and the disparity is huge. He offers nothing in attack and commits silly tackles in dangerous areas. He doesn't score goals and he doesn't start attacks. In the system we play, we need all of our midfielders to be versatile and be able to contribute on all fronts but he lacks the energy and ability to do so.

Oussama Assaidi - Weirdest signing ever. He's scored a couple of goals for Stoke but he's been injured most of the time I think. Not sure if Stoke wants him permanently but he should go seeing that Joao Carlos, Suso and Ibe are likely to be ahead of him.

Glen Johnson - I'm saddened by this one but he has to go for reasons already pointed out by everyone else.

Of the above 7 I've mentioned, Coates, Kelly, Ngoo and Assaidi have no impact on the first team or bench so their departure will not make a difference as we've got good players in the reserves who can take their place. As for Aspas, he's rarely played to begin with so no loss either. The only prominent departures would be that of GJ and Lucas.

However, all the 7 can be easily replaced by buying new players or promoting youth. Coates and Kelly can be replaced by Ilori, Wisdom, Sama and McLaughlin. Aspas, Assaidi and Ngoo can be replaced by Joao Carlos, Suso, Ibe, Borini and Yesil. There's really no difference in quality but at least we're reducing the number of players in the team. I believe we've got around 42 players at the moment?

As for Lucas and GJ, a top replacement is needed. Players like Draxler, Reus, Rakitic, Barkley, Coleman, Coentrao, Rodriguez and Shaw. If we're gonna buy new players, it's essential that they are better than what we already have. Which is why I don't understand why you wanna sell Sturridge and Skrtel. It's better to keep those 2 and have them on the bench rather than sell them and have Aspas and Coates on the bench obviously. This way, we improve the squad, and the first team concurrently. Otherwise if things were done your way, we'll still have a strong first team but incompetency on the bench.

I've not mentioned Reina because he's a tricky one but I would like him to stay and compete with Mignolet for the #1 spot.



No worries mate.... and i do take your point about too many of the players on the peripehery being not good enough. We were very lucky with injuriesthis year. On any other year, our bench players would have cost us 4th not to mention first. But we will need a bench when we go on all 4 fronts next year. Too do a complete yard sale and start afresh would be suicide as I don't believe we have the financial muscle to get 8 or 9 players who will improve us.... I think we need quality in the form of 3 or 4 positions. another left or right fullback.... a centrehalf... a centremid and another attacker. I hope Illori is deemed ok... I have seen a few of the matches he's played and I believe he is quality. Just need to confirm if he can handle the bright spotlights of playing for the big teams.


Exactly, we need quality. So why do you contradict yourself by suggesting we sell Skrtel and Sturridge ahead of Aspas and Coates? Are the latter quality?  ???
Suggest a replacement for Sturridge that wouldn't cost the earth.
If people were to say that they wished to sell those players on my list, I could understand that.
But selling the second top scorer in the league and a defender who has scored more goals than some strikers at Chelsea just baffles me and the rest of us.
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Postby Santa » Thu May 08, 2014 6:40 pm

Loyalty it seems, to some people only work one way. If Daniel have performed the way he did these past 1.5 seasons and we flogged him off after his best season yet, what do you think the other top players whom we want to sign will think about joining us? what do you think the morale of the team will be if we pull off this act of utter stupidity?
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