Liverpool FC Forum

[Benny The Noon]

i said the same thing when kenny was on the verge of getting the bullet 18 months ago - you cant judge managers on a season to season basis.
the success curve doesnt run smooth, it`s goes up and down like the mountains.
look at the man of the moment shanks, he had a ropey start when he couldnt get us out of the second division, then he had great success, then we had 3 or 4 wilderness years where we suffered a lot of embaressing defeats (like losing to united 4-1 at home and getting knocked out of the F.A cup by watford) and then he had great success again.
finally he left a side that would go on to dominate english and european football.
shankly`s curve would be up and down like a jack in the box.
it`s easy to look back now on shankly`s wilderness years and say it was obvious he was rebuilding but every signing wasnt a keegan, hughes or clemence.
there were plenty of peplow`s, mcglaughlin`s and ross`s (though to be fair to ross he was an excellent man marker who didnt give beckenbauer a kick) too, it wasnt a sure thing that we`d return to the top again, and that route back to the top didnt plot a smooth progressive curve.
i know it`s not the done thing in this era of stats, analysis and fact based evidence but you`ve just got to go with gut instinct, you`ve just got to say to yourself if this manager is our manager for 4 or 5 years will he, after some up`s and downs, produce a good team?
my gut instinct is that rodgers is (or will be in the not to far off future) a f##king good manager and if we stick with him we`ll have some sort of success, it may not be this year, or the next, but somewhere down the line he`ll get it right.

Is it just gut instinct that makes you think he can be a f*cking good manager ?

If being honest his career so far as a manager doesn't point to it ?

We can all look back at the days of Shanks etc but the game has evolved so much since those days. The playing field was a lot more level back then but these days the longer you are away from the CL the harder it gets to get back in. 4 seasons for us now and we get no closer - money has changed the picture of the game.

[redno7]

If being honest his career so far as a manager doesn't point to it ?

however, they all have to start somewhere. Fergies career didn't point to it either before he'd won his first silverware, the rest is history.

BR could be great, he also could be average but until we get behind him and give him the chance we'll never know.

[jacdaniel]

To be honest, its hard to know what answer to give in these kind of threads.  I can give one answer now and come May, based on events, I might be happy or unhappy with that result.

Lets say I go with 5th as being a good season right now.
If we were top of the league on January 1st, around 3rd in April, and finished 5th in May... I would probably be quite disappointed with that finish.

On the other hand, if we were 7th on Jan 1st, signed a new attacker and played great in the 2nd part of the season and eventually finished 5th, almost getting to 4th... Id be happy with that. 

You also have to take injuries and luck etc into account. 
All we can really do is see how things go this season and make a decision in May about whether it was acceptable or not.

[Benny The Noon]

But Ferguson didn't get a top job in this country until he had proven himself - the top clubs aren't generally pricing grounds for managers , too much is at risk. BR could do well but he also could continue his career in mid table and the we have wasted time and moving when we should have looked at a more proven manager. It's a very rare occasion when an unproven manager proves himself at a big club in recent times.

[Thommo's perm]

Brendan Rodgers is a manager in the Shankly mode and as such must be given time to progress.
Those who were moaning like arl tarts through the transfer window because of the lack of a "marquee" signing are looking pretty foolish now that we are undefeated and on top of the league. Yes I know its only three games and there is a long way to go blah blah blah, but I dont recall anyone predicting that we would be anywhere near the top after three games.
I will say it again, city, united and chelsea all have new managers who bring in their own ideas and staff. This brings instability and takes time to adjust. Arsenal have only bought Ozil, while spurs have bought everyone else in europe. This is the best opportunity we have had for a long time to make our mark on the PL and possibly win a cup or two as well. We are stronger and wiser and I believe we will have a productive season with at least a top four finish.
Oh and we will finish above the bitters as well

[Benny The Noon]

It's a little early to call anyone foolish after 3 games.

There are still 5 squads stronger than ours and still 35 games to be played. If we are still in the same position after 20 games and in the top 4 after 38 games then people can be called foolish. Nothing is settled after 3 games - it's where the team is after 38 games that counts.

[tadhger09]

It's a little early to call anyone foolish after 3 games.

There are still 5 squads stronger than ours and still 35 games to be played. If we are still in the same position after 20 games and in the top 4 after 38 games then people can be called foolish. Nothing is settled after 3 games - it's where the team is after 38 games that counts.

Alright Benny?

I would agree with your point about it being a marathon and not a sprint so to speak, even the bit about 5 stronger squads being ahead of us on paper at least.

However if we take each of those teams with a stronger squad you will notice that there are quiet a lot of changes in most of them clubs.

Citeh; 1. New manager that's untested in this league. 2. Big money players coming into a league where again, are untested.

Manure: 1. New manager that never won anything in the game as a manager, who would never have dealt with worldies. Only managed one new signing who is a good player but is more suited to the high and long ball game. Will Moyes put his own stamp on the mancs? Christ! I'd love it if he did.

Spuds; 1. Lost their main man who was involved in almost everything they did last season. 2. Replaced him with lots of players, sounds great right? No not imo. It will take the team a while to gel into a solid unit and they are going to need a few more players chipping in with goals this season to compensate the loss of Bale.

Chavski; 1. They are heading into the new season without a world class striker, something that most of their rivals have. 2. Lampard and Terry are no longer the big influence in the dressing room as they once were, and when they aren't playing they become septic as we all saw with Rafa and AVB before him.

Arsenal; 1. Also a team without a world class striker and with Podolski out for a couple of months Giroud will have it all to do.

5 teams with a better squad, on paper, yes but that's all for now..

[Benny The Noon]

Yes there are a great deal of changes in each squad and its evident in their starts with each team having a stutter whilst they get to know each other and find their way but their quality will come through.

City - have bought very well - 4 outstanding strikers , cey creative midfielders behind them plus the power of Toure and Ferdanidino. They have solid Cb's and full backs. Think they will win title

Chelsea - solid at the back - solid in the middle , massively talented creative wide players who will put chances on a plate for both Torres and Etoo

Mancs - haven't strengthened bar Fellani , if Kagawa starts playing he will feed RvP and they will score lots of goals. They will be in with a shout.

Spurs - got a quality squad that will gel - Lamela and Soldaldo will be the key - if they click then they can create and score lots of goals

Arsenal - Ozil is the signing of the summer - he will put them on a plate Giroud , Walcott etc - they are very good going forward but they are the team with the soft centre.

[Thommo's perm]

It's a little early to call anyone foolish after 3 games.

There are still 5 squads stronger than ours and still 35 games to be played. If we are still in the same position after 20 games and in the top 4 after 38 games then people can be called foolish. Nothing is settled after 3 games - it's where the team is after 38 games that counts.

In your case its never too early

[tadhger09]

Yes there are a great deal of changes in each squad and its evident in their starts with each team having a stutter whilst they get to know each other and find their way but their quality will come through.

City - have bought very well - 4 outstanding strikers , cey creative midfielders behind them plus the power of Toure and Ferdanidino. They have solid Cb's and full backs. Think they will win title

Chelsea - solid at the back - solid in the middle , massively talented creative wide players who will put chances on a plate for both Torres and Etoo

Mancs - haven't strengthened bar Fellani , if Kagawa starts playing he will feed RvP and they will score lots of goals. They will be in with a shout.

Spurs - got a quality squad that will gel - Lamela and Soldaldo will be the key - if they click then they can create and score lots of goals

Arsenal - Ozil is the signing of the summer - he will put them on a plate Giroud , Walcott etc - they are very good going forward but they are the team with the soft centre.

Lots of ifs and buts there though Benny. Yes quality should usually come out on top but the thing I am totally unconvinced by is the managerial changes at both manc clubs, especially Moyes. I really cannot see him keeping them on top and certainly not continuing on from old bacon faces legacy. Chalk and cheese for me.

We have the stability from last season with a couple of young hungry players after coming in. Our form since Jan has been top 4 standard, now if we can continue in the same vein then id expect at least a very real challenge on the top 4 spot. The signs so far seem to be the case.

[devaney]

Tadhger09 - Great post. Interesting stuff and it's how I see it. I honestly think it could go either way for Spurs. As for City they have already lost to Cardiff and appear to be displaying the same arrogance as they did last season that won them nothing !! I think Chelsea will be strong under Morinho. United I just hope Moyes continues his trophyless record.

Thommo - Excellent post. Good to see you back mate. STILL TRYING TO IGNORE THE NEGATIVE SHIGHT FROM A ONE MAN PRODUCTION LINE BUT IT ISN'T EASY !!!

[Benny The Noon]

Always ifs and buts in football - but I would be very wary to write off the Mancs just yet - RvP scores for fun and their overall squad is still clearly better than ours. Moyes may not have won anything but spent the last two years above us despite spending considerably less money. They may not win the title but they will be in the top 3 with clear space below them. City have a quality manager who will prove himself - again wouldn't start writing them off.

Yes we have started well in term of points gained but our performances are far from convincing - we can't continue with the same performances or we will come very unstuck very soon, big improvement is needed. We played well last season with zero pressure and nothing to play for - do that with the pressures of being in the fight for top 4 and then it can become a reality. Kenny had one good half season but it then fell apart - half a seasons got the team nowhere , getting CL form from Jan is meaningless - it needs to be from August through to May. It's four years now without CL and I expect it every season - each season we miss out means it gets harder to get back in.

[Benny The Noon]

Tadhger09 - Great post. Interesting stuff and it's how I see it. I honestly think it could go either way for Spurs. As for City they have already lost to Cardiff and appear to be displaying the same arrogance as they did last season that won them nothing !! I think Chelsea will be strong under Morinho. United I just hope Moyes continues his trophyless record.

Thommo - Excellent post. Good to see you back mate.STILL TRYING TO IGNORE THE NEGATIVE SHIGHT FROM A ONE MAN PRODUCTION LINE BUT IT ISN'T EASY !!!

Yet you can't stop yourself commenting every single time with a post that does nothing but have a dig at me. Sad man. Everyone is just adding an opinion and discussing until your post. But it's not a surprise - it's what you have been doing for months now.

[devaney]

Tadhger09 - Great post. Interesting stuff and it's how I see it. I honestly think it could go either way for Spurs. As for City they have already lost to Cardiff and appear to be displaying the same arrogance as they did last season that won them nothing !! I think Chelsea will be strong under Morinho. United I just hope Moyes continues his trophyless record.

Thommo - Excellent post. Good to see you back mate.STILL TRYING TO IGNORE THE NEGATIVE SHIGHT FROM A ONE MAN PRODUCTION LINE BUT IT ISN'T EASY !!!

Yet you can't stop yourself commenting every single time with a post that does nothing but have a dig at me. Sad man. Everyone is just adding an opinion and discussing until your post. But it's not a surprise - it's what you have been doing for months now.

Why do you think I'm referring to you ? Is your name anywhere in my post ? You have previously suggested that I respond to every one of your posts which is idiotic even by your standards. How the fk would I have the time to respond to all of your posts. Now you're suggesting that I make reference to you every time I post. Your getting paranoid son. To be honest you have absolutely no right to call anybody a sad man 

[Benny The Noon]

So who are you referring to this time seeing as you have spent all summer long having a go at me about being "negative" .

I think most people will know who exactly you are talking about as you have spend months and months having a go at me and constantly declaring you are "trying to ignore"

If its not me then will be interesting to see who you were talking about and who your next target is to try and get removed from the forum.

I think it's incredibly sad that a grown mature adult ( I'm taking a guess that you are mature and grown up
) has decided to wage a campaign to get someone removed from a football forum - I'm not sure what it says about that persons character.