Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ben Patrick** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:55 pm

Greavesie wrote:Tony either way you're looking to have a pop at Rafa over it

Either he was injured before Benfica then Rafa's a tw@t for risking him

or he was never injured and has been rested - Rafa's a tw@t

You just dont want to accept the fact he may have been injured mate, thats a fact

I dont care either way mate, our team should be good enough to beat midtable Fulham at Anfield - with or without Torres so feck knows why you're harping on about it

Mate its you saying he is a tw@t, because one of your two statements has to be true for him to have played against Benfica and then be injured.

You can surely see that one of your statements are true ?

regarding beating Fulham at home, we invariably struggle to beat anyone without Torres as his replacement is not upto it and we still play him on his own upfront.

by **Greavesie** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:09 pm

No what I'm saying is what I can deduct from the facts, he was subbed off against Brum - personally I think he was fine
he played against Benfica and suffered a niggling knee injury which kept him out of the Fulham game
then the club physios made an assessment that he should see a specialist and he has and it's came back more positive than expected

Thats what I thinks gone one, the only time rafa was at fault was subbing him off against Brum IMO

by **tonyeh** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:31 pm

Well, yes let's look at the "facts" then.

He's subbed off of a must win Prem game which Liverpool needed to win. People say he's injured. He's seen with ice on his knee. Torres says the manager saw something he didn't feel.

He then plays nearly the whole game in the European Cup. benitez is willing to risk further injury (or "tiredness") in this game.

Benitez then waits until Sunday's vitaly important game against Fulham to ship off Torres to a specialist (in Barcelona). There's nobody in England to look at him? Said specialist says there's nothing that wrong with him and he can play next week, confirming Fernando's comment earlier.

From those "facts", I think the obvious conclusion is that Benitez wants Torres to play in the Euro games, but couldn't care less about the league matches, because to him, the priority is performing well at something in Europe. At the very least, Benitez is willing to risk further injury to Torres for European matches.

Either way, if Torres is injured with bursitis (a build up of liquid on the knee), then he shouldn't be playing in ANY games whatsoever. Also, if he has that complaint, why would the Barcelona specialist say he's OK to play next week?

Naturally, I am going to find something suspicious about the whole thing.

by **Greavesie** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:13 pm

You see what I said earlier, you'll either bash him for risking him, or bash him for not playing him. Face it mate, youll read it the way that puts Rafa in the most bad light

the specialist did NOT say there's nothing wrong did he? find me the quote where he said 'there's nothing wrong'

Like I said, I dont think there was anything wrong after the Brum game and he was fine - you seem to be advocating that substitution as a means to support your later argument and accepting that something must have been wrong then but not the rest

by **tonyeh** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:37 pm

Ok, you can see it what way you want to Greavesie.

But, as I said it's not about "popping at" or "bashing" Benitez. I am calling into question his motivations because his actions are giving me reasons to call his motivation into question.

by **Greavesie** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:48 pm

tonyeh wrote:Ok, you can see it what way you want to Greavesie.

But, as I said it's not about "popping at" or "bashing" Benitez. I am calling into question his motivations because his actions are giving me reasons to call his motivation into question.

I think he puts Europe first I have to admit, but that said I felt awful abot not being in the CL when man u and Arsenal were enjoying thier big nights. Arsenal v Barca at the Emirates really showed the magic of European nights and I was gutted that we weren't part of it and aren't going to be for at least a season.

Having felt like that I can understand why foreign coaches put it first, its not THAT much of a bad thing, for example, Chelsea are crying for a man that could win them it. Rafa puts Europe first because it's why he knows IMO, after 6 seasons in England you can see that he still hasn't learnt English football and finds it easier to manage European ties.

I do not advocate his methods in doing so and that's one of the reasons I want him out.

I think we have to agree to disagree regarding Torres at this instance however

by **LFC2007** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:50 pm

The bottom line is that the specialist who treated him (the bloke who oversaw his previous injury problems) says that he needs to "stop and rest to avoid more risk" and that a normal recovery plan would see him back in action next week. If he is saying there is a problem then there is a problem, moreover one that requires treatment and rest.

by **tonyeh** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:03 pm

Greavesie wrote:
tonyeh wrote:Ok, you can see it what way you want to Greavesie.

But, as I said it's not about "popping at" or "bashing" Benitez. I am calling into question his motivations because his actions are giving me reasons to call his motivation into question.

I think he puts Europe first I have to admit, but that said I felt awful abot not being in the CL when man u and Arsenal were enjoying thier big nights. Arsenal v Barca at the Emirates really showed the magic of European nights and I was gutted that we weren't part of it and aren't going to be for at least a season.

Having felt like that I can understand why foreign coaches put it first, its not THAT much of a bad thing, for example, Chelsea are crying for a man that could win them it. Rafa puts Europe first because it's why he knows IMO, after 6 seasons in England you can see that he still hasn't learnt English football and finds it easier to manage European ties.

I do not advocate his methods in doing so and that's one of the reasons I want him out.

I think we have to agree to disagree regarding Torres at this instance however

Ok, no worries Greavesie, we agree on more than meets the eye here anyway.

by **tonyeh** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:10 pm

LFC2007 wrote:The bottom line is that the specialist who treated him (the bloke who oversaw his previous injury problems) says that he needs to "stop and rest to avoid more risk" and that a normal recovery plan would see him back in action next week. If he is saying there is a problem then there is a problem, moreover one that requires treatment and rest.

Fine. If that's the case, Torres should play no matches at all.

However, SSN were reporting last night that the specialist said that the injury wasn't THAT serious and he can play next week.

To me that (and Torres saying he felt nothing) means that he's not injured, or at least not THAT injured that he couldn't have played last Sunday (or at least have been on the bench for an emergencu appearance). Or, if he is injured, why the hell wait til Sunday before sending him out to a specialist. It also begs the question why the hell send to Barcelona too?

If Torres HAS got bursitis. Then he should NOT have played the Benfica game and he should NOT play any more games for the forseeable future.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:38 pm

tonyeh wrote:Fine. If that's the case, Torres should play no matches at all.

However, SSN were reporting last night that the specialist said that the injury wasn't THAT serious and he can play next week.

To me that (and Torres saying he felt nothing) means that he's not injured, or at least not THAT injured that he couldn't have played last Sunday (or at least have been on the bench for an emergencu appearance). Or, if he is injured, why the hell wait til Sunday before sending him out to a specialist. It also begs the question why the hell send to Barcelona too?

If Torres HAS got bursitis. Then he should NOT have played the Benfica game and he should NOT play any more games for the forseeable future.

Exactly

. The specialist advises that Torres should be able to play next week, meaning it is likely it will take a week for the problem to settle down. That means his knee is not settled down and that the risk of playing him before then would risk aggravating the problem. At best it is reasonable to question whether he should have played or stayed on for as long as he did against Benfica. It looked to me though like he was fit (if tired) against Birmingham whereas against Benfica he appeared to be carrying a bit of a limp, implying he aggravated it during the game. As for "why the hell Barcelona?", that's where his specialist's clinic is based. As for "why the hell Sunday?", why the hell not Sunday? Monitoring the problem, liaising with the specialist and organising the appointment takes time.

by **tonyeh** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:57 pm

FFS...it's like talking to jelly

:laugh:

by **LFC2007** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:02 pm

Yeah...

by **Greavesie** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:07 pm

by **tonyeh** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:16 pm

LFC2007 wrote:Yeah...

Quiet jelly.

by **rocky29** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:00 pm

tonyeh wrote:Well, yes let's look at the "facts" then.

He's subbed off of a must win Prem game which Liverpool needed to win. People say he's injured. He's seen with ice on his knee. Torres says the manager saw something he didn't feel.

He then plays nearly the whole game in the European Cup. benitez is willing to risk further injury (or "tiredness") in this game.

Benitez then waits until Sunday's vitaly important game against Fulham to ship off Torres to a specialist (in Barcelona). There's nobody in England to look at him? Said specialist says there's nothing that wrong with him and he can play next week, confirming Fernando's comment earlier.

From those "facts", I think the obvious conclusion is that Benitez wants Torres to play in the Euro games, but couldn't care less about the league matches, because to him, the priority is performing well at something in Europe. At the very least, Benitez is willing to risk further injury to Torres for European matches.

Either way, if Torres is injured with bursitis (a build up of liquid on the knee), then he shouldn't be playing in ANY games whatsoever. Also, if he has that complaint, why would the Barcelona specialist say he's OK to play next week?

Naturally, I am going to find something suspicious about the whole thing.

well spotted ihmo i thought the exact same. Heard it was the same specalist dealing with aquilani viruses? Bet you aquaman starts the next premiership game and not against athletico!

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