Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Wed May 06, 2009 12:19 pm

Mashcerano has more of an engine about him

About this particular comparison, I'd say that if you check those games in which the amount of Km is given, Alonso does more Km in a game than Mascherano.

That said, I think the correct engine comparison would be saying Alonso has a diesel engine, and Mascherano a gasoline one. Mascherano's engine can react quicker than Alonso's, but Alonso's engine does a lot of Km.

by **DrPepe** » Wed May 06, 2009 12:23 pm

The OS reporting alonso is a big doubt for the west ham game

Torres and masch are probables

That :censored:

barton!

by **bigmick** » Wed May 06, 2009 12:23 pm

Mike it's all opinions and all that but I disagree with just about every word of that post, or at the very least the order in which they're put together. You are effectively arguing that we should turn a guy who has been a defensive destroyer all his life into an attacking midfielder, and we should move one of the most gifted and visionary passers of his generation thirty yards backwards.

A good checkback in any sport is to consider what the opposition would most like you to do. If you told them pre match that the possibility of Alonso getting a strike on goal or an assist (and remember he didn't get them from the pocket) was going to be taken out of the equation, and that you were going to ask Masherano to arrive in the box at the appropriate moment, my guess is our rivals would be all over it.

Anyway I've has a couple so can't explain myself very well, suffice to say I don't agree mate.

by **stmichael** » Wed May 06, 2009 12:34 pm

Whether you agree with it or not Mick, it's what we have seen, particuarly at Anfield in recent games. Mascherano playing ahead of Alonso and pressing the ball early with real intent and then supporting attacks. It's opened gaps for us and we have exploited them.

by **bigmick** » Wed May 06, 2009 12:41 pm

I agree that masherano has got a whole lot more expansive mate, almost sissoko like in his "behind enemy lines" raids. I always really liked Momo (probably overrated him if I'm truthful) and he never got the credit he deserved (there I go again). He could win you the ball off of the left back and you'd be three on two. He was a defensive midfeilder who kind of took the attack to the opposition, he played the game unlike most every other midfielder I've ever seen. He was like a more sophisticated version of when my little lad plays mini football, the ball is like a magnet with 12 kids simulataneously trying to kick it.

Momo wasn't a ball-winner, he hunted the thing down. He didn't hunt in packs either, he was very much a lone wolf happy to do his own scouting. Unfortunately of course once he got it, he had very little idea what to actually do next, although I'm led to believe this part of his game has developed a lot. Loved him though Momo, top man.

by **DrPepe** » Wed May 06, 2009 12:47 pm

stmichael wrote:Whether you agree with it or not Mick, it's what we have seen, particuarly at Anfield in recent games. Mascherano playing ahead of Alonso and pressing the ball early with real intent and then supporting attacks. It's opened gaps for us and we have exploited them.

yeah that's exactly what he's been doing

often results in a hurried clearance and a throw in to us around the half way line to get our attacks going again

by **aCe'** » Wed May 06, 2009 1:02 pm

Im not sure that Alonso (given his role and how we setup) not scoring so many goals a season is that big a problem... I mean we have the best oalscoring record in the league this season and we seem to have little trouble scoring once we get going... Our main problem seems to be breaking down the smaller teams that park the bus and quite honestly i think that given the way we setup the bigger share of the blame needs to lie on the shoulders of the attacking wingers and our manager..
We've been having the same problem and it has been pointed out yet and again for around 3 years now yet we still dont seem to do anything about it.. We are too darn predictable more often than not... Alonso has the ability to provide/create great attacking moves from his current position but the problem is that we dont seem to have enough players around who can comeup with the goos in the final third of the pitch... we have very limited options in the final third and that extends beyond having only one striker or Kuyt not being able to beat a man..etc etc

In this league... you win the league if you win more games than the next team... its not about not losing, its not about having the best defense, its about getting as m,any 3points as you can.. the most effective way of doing that is giving yourself as many quality options when going forward as possible..

wingers who can run at fullbacks, forwards who can come deep and drag their markers out of position, players who work hard ina and around the box, wingers that can cut the ball back... people who attack the ball from the edge of the area...etc etc...

More often than not, we do very little of that when teams park the bus against us... Its the good same old routine of passing the ball around looking for Gerrard, Torres, or (only recently) Benny who can actually carry the ball forward and look for an incisive pass or an attempt on target... failing that we just hoof it up for the opposition backline to clear it with little trouble...

Back to Alonso... Ill say it again, if we have better attacking players around, hes a must keep in my books... Hes great at finding players in the attacking third and if we have better quality upfront alongside Gerrard and Torres im pretty sure that with his passing ability and the added impact of such players we would have too many outlets when going forward for other teams that park the bus to deal with... Despite his brilliant season Kuyt remains a liability in many games against the smaller sides... Rieras impact is almost nullified when you have 2 wide opposition players dedicated to closing down the flank and leaving little room fir the pass and go he seems to do so well...

To sum things up im not sure that changing the way Alonso plays his game at present would really change the way we look when going forward against the teams that park the bus all that much... Id much rather have him playing where he is with better quality brought in to complement his style rather than ask him to change his style (by pushing him further up or further back) to try something that will most probably have little or no effect in such games..

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Wed May 06, 2009 2:15 pm

Sabre wrote:
Mashcerano has more of an engine about him

About this particular comparison, I'd say that if you check those games in which the amount of Km is given, Alonso does more Km in a game than Mascherano.

That said, I think the correct engine comparison would be saying Alonso has a diesel engine, and Mascherano a gasoline one. Mascherano's engine can react quicker than Alonso's, but Alonso's engine does a lot of Km.

I agree Mashcerano has more engine but Alonso passing better. The only player that have both skills is SG. We need to buy other SG ....

by **Bad Bob** » Wed May 06, 2009 4:53 pm

aCe' wrote:Im not sure that Alonso (given his role and how we setup) not scoring so many goals a season is that big a problem... I mean we have the best oalscoring record in the league this season and we seem to have little trouble scoring once we get going... Our main problem seems to be breaking down the smaller teams that park the bus and quite honestly i think that given the way we setup the bigger share of the blame needs to lie on the shoulders of the attacking wingers and our manager..
We've been having the same problem and it has been pointed out yet and again for around 3 years now yet we still dont seem to do anything about it.. We are too darn predictable more often than not... Alonso has the ability to provide/create great attacking moves from his current position but the problem is that we dont seem to have enough players around who can comeup with the goos in the final third of the pitch... we have very limited options in the final third and that extends beyond having only one striker or Kuyt not being able to beat a man..etc etc

In this league... you win the league if you win more games than the next team... its not about not losing, its not about having the best defense, its about getting as m,any 3points as you can.. the most effective way of doing that is giving yourself as many quality options when going forward as possible..

wingers who can run at fullbacks, forwards who can come deep and drag their markers out of position, players who work hard ina and around the box, wingers that can cut the ball back... people who attack the ball from the edge of the area...etc etc...

More often than not, we do very little of that when teams park the bus against us... Its the good same old routine of passing the ball around looking for Gerrard, Torres, or (only recently) Benny who can actually carry the ball forward and look for an incisive pass or an attempt on target... failing that we just hoof it up for the opposition backline to clear it with little trouble...

Back to Alonso... Ill say it again, if we have better attacking players around, hes a must keep in my books... Hes great at finding players in the attacking third and if we have better quality upfront alongside Gerrard and Torres im pretty sure that with his passing ability and the added impact of such players we would have too many outlets when going forward for other teams that park the bus to deal with... Despite his brilliant season Kuyt remains a liability in many games against the smaller sides... Rieras impact is almost nullified when you have 2 wide opposition players dedicated to closing down the flank and leaving little room fir the pass and go he seems to do so well...

To sum things up im not sure that changing the way Alonso plays his game at present would really change the way we look when going forward against the teams that park the bus all that much... Id much rather have him playing where he is with better quality brought in to complement his style rather than ask him to change his style (by pushing him further up or further back) to try something that will most probably have little or no effect in such games..

Good post, aCe'. Alonso's biggest contribution in these situations is his ability to switch play quickly, to change the angle of attack before the defenders can react. For that to lead to goals, however, we need people he can pass to that use the space afforded them to torture defenders and create chances for themselves or teammates. I think that Kuyt, Riera, Arbeloa and Aurelio have all played important roles in what's been a good season but all of them can be a bit too static and one dimensional when it comes to attacking well-organized teams looking to defend ahead of everything else.

by **Scottbot** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:27 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Good post, aCe'. Alonso's biggest contribution in these situations is his ability to switch play quickly, to change the angle of attack before the defenders can react. For that to lead to goals, however, we need people he can pass to that use the space afforded them to torture defenders and create chances for themselves or teammates. I think that Kuyt, Riera, Arbeloa and Aurelio have all played important roles in what's been a good season but all of them can be a bit too static and one dimensional when it comes to attacking well-organized teams looking to defend ahead of everything else.

That pretty much sums it up for me, we are well and truly sorted through the middle of our side and it's improving the wide areas (as always!) that will be Rafa's biggest challenge this off-season. It might take as little as one player to make the difference (although i'd like to see two), swapping Glen Johnson (or someone of his ilk) for Arbeloa could be a real difference ,maker for this team.

by **HacksawJimDuggin** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:31 pm

I think Alonso and Mascha are a very good foil for each other and give us a very good blend in the middle of the park. Perhaps Mascha more adventurous play of late has been a contributory factor in the fact we've conceeded a few more goals. His role first and foremost is as a defensive midfielder. If we want him to play further up the park then we need someone to sit. I was bitterly disappointed when we sold Sissoko as I really rate him!

Imagine Sissoko sitting behind Mascha and Alonso with 2 wide men and Gerrard and Torres up top :;):

by **aCe'** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:37 pm

HacksawJimDuggin wrote:I think Alonso and Mascha are a very good foil for each other and give us a very good blend in the middle of the park. Perhaps Mascha more adventurous play of late has been a contributory factor in the fact we've conceeded a few more goals. His role first and foremost is as a defensive midfielder. If we want him to play further up the park then we need someone to sit. I was bitterly disappointed when we sold Sissoko as I really rate him!

Imagine Sissoko sitting behind Mascha and Alonso with 2 wide men and Gerrard and Torres up top

yea... ill give you one better... how about sissoko behind mascha and alonso with gerrard ahead of them with 2 wide upfront and 2 forwards... eh fck it what the hell lets make it 3 forwards who needs defenders anyways

... just kidding mate... 5 in the middle is bad enough, you want 6 !! ... switch to playing 3 defensive midfielders and our record in the league will probably be.. played: 38, won: 4, draw: 34, lost: 0 !

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:37 am

MARK HUGHES TO LAUNCH BID

by **Espionage** » Sun May 10, 2009 6:54 am

LiverpoolMadman wrote:MARK HUGHES TO LAUNCH BID

I dont think that 18m is enough for Xabi, about to hit is prime and he is a fantastic player.

I dont think that Rafa will sell him. I really hope that he doesnt.

by **Ciggy** » Sun May 10, 2009 7:59 am

Mark Hughes can feck off.

Alonso is going no where.

Liverpool FC Forum

The Alonso Thread - hands in transfer request

Who is online