Liverpool FC Forum

by **HacksawJimDuggin** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:14 pm

Alonso has been excellent for us this season IMO. Maybe not the quickest in the game but he offers a whole lot more than speed.

Glad we kept him and delighted to see him playing so well.

by **Fo Dne** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:09 pm

s@int wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
s@int wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
s@int wrote:
Who was playing wide left when Alonso was on form and who was playing there when he was off form?

Riise is the answer to BOTH questions mate.

Alonso and Gerrard both play at there best when they have one another to bounce off and play as a pairing.

They have had ONE good Game together in over 2 years, I think you may be going a little over the top there mate.

and more .

So start naming them ?

Chelsea last season at Anfield for a start.

Am not going to sit here and name every performance they've played well in together. Theres been some quality performances from them both when they've played. Wigan, Everton, United etc.

Bar one Chelsea game I can't think of any where Mascherano and Gerrard played well as a central pairing. Even in that game they didn't really work as a team, they just played well individually, they certainly didn't bounce of each other.

No problems, but Wigan ? We won 1-0 away (Masch played)
We drew 1-1 at home Alonso and Masch played. The season before it was Zenden and Alonso and the other was 2006 before Masch even arrived ! Everton I already gave you and the mancs he was partnered by Masch ?

8-0 Against Besiktas Masch and Gerrard
4-1 Porto Masch and Gerrard
4-0 Marseille Masch and Gerrard
4-1 Portsmouth Masch and Gerrard
Maybe they didn't bounce but we sure scored a few

Thats like me sitting there and saying:

without Gerrard.

Derby - 6-0
Man Utd - 2-1

I was also refering the the first season we had Bellamy and Kuyt :cool:

Which incidently we won 4-0.

Players have to be able to compliment each other, Gerrard and Mascherano don't. Simple as that.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:05 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
s@int wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
s@int wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
s@int wrote:
Who was playing wide left when Alonso was on form and who was playing there when he was off form?

Riise is the answer to BOTH questions mate.

Alonso and Gerrard both play at there best when they have one another to bounce off and play as a pairing.

They have had ONE good Game together in over 2 years, I think you may be going a little over the top there mate.

and more .

So start naming them ?

Chelsea last season at Anfield for a start.

Am not going to sit here and name every performance they've played well in together. Theres been some quality performances from them both when they've played. Wigan, Everton, United etc.

Bar one Chelsea game I can't think of any where Mascherano and Gerrard played well as a central pairing. Even in that game they didn't really work as a team, they just played well individually, they certainly didn't bounce of each other.

No problems, but Wigan ? We won 1-0 away (Masch played)
We drew 1-1 at home Alonso and Masch played. The season before it was Zenden and Alonso and the other was 2006 before Masch even arrived ! Everton I already gave you and the mancs he was partnered by Masch ?

8-0 Against Besiktas Masch and Gerrard
4-1 Porto Masch and Gerrard
4-0 Marseille Masch and Gerrard
4-1 Portsmouth Masch and Gerrard
Maybe they didn't bounce but we sure scored a few

Thats like me sitting there and saying:

without Gerrard.

Derby - 6-0
Man Utd - 2-1

I was also refering the the first season we had Bellamy and Kuyt

Which incidently we won 4-0.

Players have to be able to compliment each other, Gerrard and Mascherano don't. Simple as that.

As I had already said the Wigan game you refer to was before Masch even arrived and was within a few weeks of being 2 years ago !

I think if you're having to go so far back mate there may be a problem

How many games have Gerrard and Masch played together as a central midfield since we signed Riera. I will wait to see how they do first before I rush to judgement.

by **The_Rock** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:52 pm

s@int wrote:1)And the funny thing is ..... he doesn't even play for your favourite team.

2)I know plenty Spanish jokes too Sabre but your the biggest.

by **maguskwt** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:03 pm

s@int wrote:I know plenty Spanish jokes too Sabre but your the biggest.

that's totally uncalled for... :no

nothing wrong with supporting a particular player and defending him... from what i've seen sabre's not over the top in his praise for xabi... when people were saying xabi was motm in one of our games he was the one pointing out xabi's mistakes in the game and said reina was the real motm... so what if he defends a player from his hometown? some of you people can't find fault with gerrard or carra can you?

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:28 pm

maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:I know plenty Spanish jokes too Sabre but your the biggest.

that's totally uncalled for...

nothing wrong with supporting a particular player and defending him... from what i've seen sabre's not over the top in his praise for xabi... when people were saying xabi was motm in one of our games he was the one pointing out xabi's mistakes in the game and said reina was the real motm... so what if he defends a player from his hometown? some of you people can't find fault with gerrard or carra can you?

i think what Saint meant was ''yours is the biggest'' referring to Sabre's post which was quoted by Number9 in the previous page.

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:39 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:I know plenty Spanish jokes too Sabre but your the biggest.

that's totally uncalled for...

nothing wrong with supporting a particular player and defending him... from what i've seen sabre's not over the top in his praise for xabi... when people were saying xabi was motm in one of our games he was the one pointing out xabi's mistakes in the game and said reina was the real motm... so what if he defends a player from his hometown? some of you people can't find fault with gerrard or carra can you?

i think what Saint meant was ''yours is the biggest'' referring to Sabre's post which was quoted by Number9 in the previous page.

Erm, not sure about that one, mate.

It looks like this thread's taken over from the Kuyt thread in the 'handbags at 20 paces' stakes at the moment. It never ceases to amaze me, people's capacity on here to have the exact same arguments with the exact same people over the exact same issues over and over again. What's that oft-quoted definition of insanity again? :Oo:

Anyways, carry on the never-ending debate if you must, but please keep it clean and dignified.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:01 pm

s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Stop criticising players when it's uncalled for. It's obvious that the 3 or 4 people on here who slate Alonso do so to wind myself or Sabre up. There's no way there could be THAT many thickos on one forum.

Your posts are becoming a joke, maybe its not everyone else thats a thicko maybe the source is closer to home. Everbody's wrong but Lando...... including Rafa

You can say that Alonso wasn't at his best, but playing poorly? Come off it

Yet you can say that masch was absolute cack. YOU are the one criticising players not me.

Stop criticising players when it's uncalled for

You're the one making posts against Gerrard after the Everton game, when he was outstanding, because you couldn't bear the thought of someone else being praised in front of your precious Alonso.

I will say what I want, its my opinion not yours. If you want to continue to spout your usual biased cr@p about Alonso be my guest. You're only showing yourself up.

Alonso was playing so bad he was dropped and Lucas got his starting position. Alonso was playing so bad Rafa wanted to sell him. He was playing so badly that Gerrard started singing Barry's praises. Enough facts or do you want more?

When was Masch dropped? As far as I am aware he has never been dropped ...... but Alonso has.

But carry on by all means the forum could do with a good laugh.

Answer me this, S@int: If Rafa was so desperate to offload Alonso, why has he started virtually every game this season? If Rafa had lost faith in him as you suggest, he would have gone when Juventus made their offer.

I want Mascher and Alonso to play every game, but I won't lie just to appease those who have a hard-on every time Mascher slides in the mud. He was gash in that match. Much worse than Alonso when he was getting slated last season.

What is the point in debating when you fail to grasp the glaringly obvious use of sarcasm? Did you read my post in isolation in the Gerrard thread? Or did you read on and see the (and I paraphrase as I am not sad enough to trawl back into threads) "Alonso has been playing like this for 18 months, yet is slated...You're all hypocrites" post? (Didn't think so...)

Just because Rafa put him up for sale doesn't mean he's a bad player. Was Morientes suddenly sh*t when he went on the transfer list? How about Gerrard? Owen? Hyypia? I'd have thought you'd have had more sense than that, S@int.

Oh, and remind me when Lucas was "given Alonso's starting place" - I must have blinked and missed that...

Mascherano didn't play when fit - surely that's considered being "dropped"? It certainly was when Alonso had been crocked for 4 months. Or is it alright for Javier to have a few games to get his form back, even though Alonso was "b*llocks"?

Pack the condescending sh*t in S@int. Just because BigMick agrees with you, doesn't make you right.

You HATE Rafa, and are constantly pulling the bloke down. The mere fact that you are using my loyalty to the gaffer against me to highlight your point just goes to show that you change your opinions like the wind and are, as I have said before, fickle.

But let's just set your mind at rest. You, a man who places fans above everyone else connected with the club.

The fans showed they were against the sale of Alonso during the Lazio game by singing his name constantly. And as you've said all along, the fans mean more than anyone. :;):

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:37 pm

Morientes was sold because he didnt adjust to the play here. Owen left cause he wanted to and Rafa had no choice but to sell him and make the most money he could otherwise Bosman effect would run in. Gerrard and Sammi was never on the transfer list. Rafa was willing to sell Alonso because he saw a better player in Barry and Alonso had been out of form for sucha long period. The reason why any of the bid were never accepted but willing to be negotiated was because we wanted more money.

i dont think Lucas was given Alonso's place. considering the latter's form, he could have earned it.

by **metalhead** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:09 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:Morientes was sold because he didnt adjust to the play here. Owen left cause he wanted to and Rafa had no choice but to sell him and make the most money he could otherwise Bosman effect would run in. Gerrard and Sammi was never on the transfer list. Rafa was willing to sell Alonso because he saw a better player in Barry and Alonso had been out of form for sucha long period. The reason why any of the bid were never accepted but willing to be negotiated was because we wanted more money.

i dont think Lucas was given Alonso's place. considering the latter's form, he could have earned it.

Agreed

by **Sabre** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:15 pm

The fans showed they were against the sale of Alonso during the Lazio game by singing his name constantly. And as you've said all along, the fans mean more than anyone.

Yep.

Bad Bob

Anyways, carry on the never-ending debate if you must, but please keep it clean and dignified.

Of course.

Just checking, is it insulting to point out to someone that he's not impartial neither?

I've been told all the time I'm red rosed, happy clappy, biased to Alonso... is it insulting then if I point out that defence of Alonso is due to Xabi being constantly criticised by a couple of members? Is it pointing it out to moan or to cry?

Or it's just that while some are happy to tag members as happy clappy and biased everyday, they're unhappy to be told they're not impartial once?

Placing a tag that is placed everyday to posters like me, has provoked a quite rudimentary and not very dignified answer in my book. With the usual laughter of his sidekick, the one who asked his account to be deleted, the one who left with a tear in the eye. S@int can't offend me even if he tried hard, so I won't drag this further, I'll give the Alonso thread a rest.

But I'll say a thought: if telling that to S@int is not acceptable, if it's a source of problem for moderators, posters defending the coach or the players should not be called red-tinted happy clappy or biased neither. Even less on a regular basis. Either we can place tags to everybody or to no-one.

Or at least they should accept the blatant truth that as humans they are they have a bias like anyone else. Or have we gone from a "Rafa can't be criticised" forum, to a "Rafa and the players can't be defended" forum?

Quite simply, people only have to look at my "exagerated" defences of Alonso, and they'll see the same 2 or 3 posters, the ones with the monopoly of impartiality, the ones that tell you it like it is, slating the player.

The other members, and newkit has more than one hundred, change their opinions on the player according to his form, trying to find positives and negatives, and have normal reactions. But if I "over protect" Alonso, then it's because there's an over-attack. You cannot have one without the other.

by **metalhead** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:21 pm

Oh jeez.. my analysis of posters here

Sabre = very biased towards alonso
S@int = Fairly critical to anyone who doesnt play well
Lando = Very very very very very happy clappy

just admit it folks, you know im right

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:38 pm

Answer me this, S@int: If Rafa was so desperate to offload Alonso, why has he started virtually every game this season? If Rafa had lost faith in him as you suggest, he would have gone when Juventus made their offer.

Mainly because WE FAILED to sign Barry. Masch and Lucas both went to the Olympics, and then Gerrard and Masch have both been injured. So apart from those minor hickups to your argument ........do carry on .

I want Mascher and Alonso to play every game, but I won't lie just to appease those who have a hard-on every time Mascher slides in the mud. He was gash in that match. Much worse than Alonso when he was getting slated last season

The only person round here who seems to be getting a hard on is you and your fellow Alonso lover. I have already said IF Alonso can MAINTAIN his form he should play regularly. I also said 2 games don't prove anything to me, he needs to play well CONSISTANTLY same as any other player, bur especially after his poor form last season.

What is the point in debating when you fail to grasp the glaringly obvious use of sarcasm? Did you read my post in isolation in the Gerrard thread? Or did you read on and see the (and I paraphrase as I am not sad enough to trawl back into threads) "Alonso has been playing like this for 18 months, yet is slated...You're all hypocrites" post? (Didn't think so...)

Gerrard was outstanding against Everton, Alonso has been poor for 18 months , if you don't believe me ask Rafa. He wouldn't have been trying to sell him if he had been playing well ...... would he? Or do most managers TRY to sell their best players ?

Just because Rafa put him up for sale doesn't mean he's a bad player. Was Morientes suddenly sh*t when he went on the transfer list? How about Gerrard? Owen? Hyypia?

Strange argument that one. Morientes played poorly and was sold just as Alonso would have been, but for the absence of ANYONE willing to buy him. Owen and Gerrard WANTED TO GO Rafa wasn't offering them round to anyone who was interested. Hyypia was told by Rafa he WASN'T FOR SALE. Something Rafa has still not said about Alonso.

Pack the condescending sh*t in S@int. Just because BigMick agrees with you, doesn't make you right

And just because you shout swear and have the odd rant doesn't make you right either, all it does his make you seem rather sad.

You HATE Rafa, and are constantly pulling the bloke down. The mere fact that you are using my loyalty to the gaffer against me to highlight your point just goes to show that you change your opinions like the wind and are, as I have said before, fickle.

I don't hate Rafa, I just don't have wet dreams and cream my pants over him. He has done a lot of good things since he has come. He has also made some mistakes, but you seem to think he is some sort of god. He's not a god he is just a man trying to do a job.

But let's just set your mind at rest. You, a man who places fans above everyone else connected with the club.

No I don't, I have NEVER put the fans first! The team comes first for me, always has always will. Without the team there would be no fans. But I don't spend my time dreaming about one player.....

The fans showed they were against the sale of Alonso during the Lazio game by singing his name constantly.

The fans shouted and sang Owens name when they thought there was a chance he might come back....... didn't change the fact he didn't come back ..... did it ? All you are pointing out there is that the fans disagreed with Rafa's decision ..... so there is more than me that disagrees with him at times!

TBH I think you are acting like a little school girl with a crush. I have not slated Alonso, I have not said he is cr@p (though I get sorely tempted just because of the pathetic gushing praise he gets for two good games) even when he has struggled.

The same with Rafa , because I disagree with some of his decisions that somehow gets translated in your mind to I hate him ! For god's sake grow up. I don't go around saying sack Rafa after every defeat, I don't call him an idiot. So whats you're problem , that I don't bow down and kiss his feet like you do?

As for being biased..... YES I AM BIASED..... TO EVERY LIVERPOOL PLAYER. I support LIVERPOOL not Alonso's eleven. If I think one Liverpool player is better than another one I WILL SAY SO ,not because of where they originate from, not because I have a crush on them, but because thats my honest opinion!

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:31 pm

Sabre wrote:Just checking, is it insulting to point out to someone that he's not impartial neither?

No, I don't think it's insulting to suggest that others aren't objective either. In fact, having either followed or been in the midst of this debate for a couple of years now, I can say with absolute 100% certainty that no one who repeatedly revisits the Alonso debate is capable of being objective on the subject. That's because, as with the Kuyt debate, it's only partially about the player and his performances on the pitch at this stage of the discussion. Overshadowing that stuff is the personal dynamics of those doing the arguing, as evidenced by how quickly things turn sarky when Alonso is discussed for more than a post or two. So, I say again to everyone, continue fighting the good fight if you must, but please leave the personal stuff out of it.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:35 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Sabre wrote:Just checking, is it insulting to point out to someone that he's not impartial neither?

No, I don't think it's insulting to suggest that others aren't objective either. In fact, having either followed or been in the midst of this debate for a couple of years now, I can say with absolute 100% certainty that no one who repeatedly revisits the Alonso debate is capable of being objective on the subject. That's because, as with the Kuyt debate, it's only partially about the player and his performances on the pitch at this stage of the discussion. Overshadowing that stuff is the personal dynamics of those doing the arguing, as evidenced by how quickly things turn sarky when Alonso is discussed for more than a post or two. So, I say again to everyone, continue fighting the good fight if you must, but please leave the personal stuff out of it.

oh shut up

Liverpool FC Forum

The Alonso Thread - hands in transfer request

Who is online