Liverpool FC Forum

by **Richj** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:50 am

Great news !

by **andy_g** » Fri May 02, 2008 10:50 am

i'd like to see him stay. i reckon we can be fairly confident that rafa isn;t going to change the system much next season, so to have alonso and mascher as the two main DM options, whether they play together or are rotated, for me is much better than having mascher and barry as the options. i'd like to see mascher and alonso carry on playing together, but as mick points out it should be alonso that has more license to get forward, not mascher.

selling him would (probably) generate up to 15 million max and we aren't going to improve the squad much with that money and no alonso.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri May 02, 2008 11:32 am

I think the main reason that Rafa chooses to pick Alonso to be the main holding player while allowing Mascher to be the most forward of the two is Alonso's ability in the air. Mascher also has more pace to recover if we lose the ball, BUT, I feel its Alonso's size that is the crucial difference. Certainly when we are/have been playing with Sami and we take a deeper defensive line Alonso's aerial presence has been a deciding factor in my view.

Barry would be ideal in this regard, because he is probably better in the air than Alonso, certainly quicker and more mobile, but at the cost of Alonso's exceptional passing ability. I certainly find it difficult to believe that we have 3 of the best midfield players in the world in Alonso, Gerrard and Masch...... but they can't play together?

I think once we get the right players in other positions we will revert to 4-4-2 with Gerrard and Masch as our midfield pairing and a creative striker (Diego/ Aguero or even Villa)a wide midfield player (Barry type) and a more creative attacking winger (Silva/ Mancini etc), while retaining the option for 4-2-3-1 when needed.

by **Torres25** » Fri May 02, 2008 11:50 am

I think it depends on the transfer kitty....if we need funds then 4 me alonso, crouch & kuyt r the players id cash in on

i agree that if we had more pace in r team wed c a better Alonso & hopefully with a good pre season behind him & if he can stay away from injuries well c the old xabi back.....i think alotta peeps on here do 4get about the injuries hes had

by **account deleted by request** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:12 pm

Liverpool make £10m bid for Gareth Barry

May 2 2008 EXCLUSIVE by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

LIVERPOOL have tabled a £10m bid to bring Aston Villa star Gareth Barry to Anfield.

The offer was made yesterday as Rafa Benitez reacted to Liverpool's Champions League exit at the hands of Chelsea by making an immediate move for his number one summer transfer target.

The Reds boss has earmarked Barry as a potential key signing and the centre piece of his rebuilding plans as he looks to put together a squad with enough strength in depth to be able to mount a genuine challenge for the Premier League title.

Villa boss Martin O'Neill has insisted he would be reluctant to let the England international leave Villa Park. But the 27-year-old central midfielder is keen to experience Champions League football and is believed to favour a transfer to Anfield, despite interest from both Arsenal and Chelsea.

The two London clubs have been monitoring Barry's situation for several months and both are believed to be ready to test the water by make offers of their own.

But Liverpool have stolen a march on their Big Four rivals by getting in first with a £10m bid. Though Benitez rates Barry highly, he would be reluctant to get involved in an auction for a player understood to be keen on a move to Anfield.

O'Neill is desperate to retain the services of his club captain and is due to meet Villa owner Randy Lerner next week in an attempt to put together a lucrative contract in a last ditch bid to convince Barry not to quit.

But, with Liverpool able to offer Barry the Champions League football he craves and the opportunity to team up with international team mate Steven Gerrard, it is unlikely that even the prospect of being the best paid Villa player of all time would be enough to tempt him to remain at the club he joined as a teenager in 1997.

With 17 international caps and 313 Premier League appearances to his name, Barry is a seasoned campaigner whose stock has risen in recent seasons thanks to a string of influential performances for both club and country.

Former England manager Steve McClaren gave Barry a regular place in his starting line-up and Fabio Capello, his replacement as national team manager, has continued to select him in his preferred central midfield role, despite competition from the likes of Chelsea's Frank Lampard and Manchester United's Michael Carrick.

Now Benitez is keen to make him his first acquisition of the summer and Liverpool's offer will test their determination to keep hold of their star player.

-------------------------

Certainly beginning to look as if Rafa has plans for Barry whether Alonso stays or not!!!

by **Sabre** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:43 pm

If Barry comes, I can certainly see Alonso leaving, but not for low teens -- we'll see anyway, not worth discussing.

Valencia played two holding midfielders a la Liverpool when Mascherano plays alongside Alonso. You can check and focus some minutes to watch who's the deepest man, but actually that will depend on the situation of the game. In Valencia, the cover was most of the times done by Albelda, who had alongside him either Baraja or Farinos, both through and through working midfielders.

But I don't think the debate must be around we play 2 holding mids or not. Even if you play one, and even if you have no doubts Mascherano must be always first option -- I don't have strenght to discuss that now, still defeat hangover --, you need a quality replacement for when the Argie goes to international games, is suspended because of cards or is simply injured.

I know that getting rid of Alonso would help the notion of playing always the same holding mid and thus bring the cohesion and rythm and that óld bóllocks, but you have to be realistic and know that's not going to happen. We'll still play many competitions, so it's not realistic to have one holding mid that plays midweek, sunday, and again midweek.

If Barry comes though, that's many internationals for the holding mid role, and I can see Alonso leaving in that scenario. Of course not to Aston Villa, but to Real Madrid or a team of that calibre. If it's good for the club -- lots of money -- then so be it, but I'd rather have Alonso rather than Barry. Actually Laza makes an excellent point in two lines in the previous page. We'd need quality depth in the wide area, we don't even have a first choice for right wing, and Gerrard has to cover that gap we have more often than I'd like. He does, not because he can't play in the middle, but because he has the quality to play wide and he does well.

by **bigmick** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:52 pm

Sabre wrote:If Barry comes, I can certainly see Alonso leaving, but not for low teens -- we'll see anyway, not worth discussing.

Valencia played two holding midfielders a la Liverpool when Mascherano plays alongside Alonso. You can check and focus some minutes to watch who's the deepest man, but actually that will depend on the situation of the game. In Valencia, the cover was most of the times done by Albelda, who had alongside him either Baraja or Farinos, both through and through working midfielders.

But I don't think the debate must be around we play 2 holding mids or not. Even if you play one, and even if you have no doubts Mascherano must be always first option -- I don't have strenght to discuss that now, still defeat hangover --, you need a quality replacement for when the Argie goes to international games is suspended because of cards or is simply injured.

I know that getting rid of Alonso would help the notion of playing always the same holding mid and thus bring the cohesion and rythm and that óld bóllocks, but you have to be realistic and know that's not going to happen. We'll still play many competitions, so it's not realistic to have one holding mid that plays midweek, sunday, and again midweek.

If Barry comes though, that's many internationals for the holding mid role, and I can see Alonso leaving in that scenario. Of course not to Aston Villa, but to Real Madrid or a team of that calibre. If it's good for the club -- lots of money -- then so be it, but I'd rather have Alonso rather than Barry. Actually Laza makes an excellent point in two lines in the previous page. We'd need quality depth in the wide area, we don't even have a first choice for right wing, and Gerrard has to cover that gap we have more often than I'd like. He does, not because he can't play in the middle, but because he has the quality to play wide and he does well.

Sabes its an interesting post (and I love the "cohesion and rhythm and all that old b0ll0cks" line especially), but do you think there is any validity whatsover in my point about wanting Xabi to play as a "half and half" midfielder? Surely we can play with one holder and then Xabi can step up and join the play? Barry if he comes isn't going to sit in front of the back four all game like alonso does, and yet I agree that as a footballer and in terms of ability, Alonso is much the better player of the two.

The point about needing a replacement for masherano should he get tired isn't I don't think a justification in itself for keeping alonso. He's too good to be a rotational "possibility", and iof we can't get him in the team on a fairly permanent basis then he deserves to move on.

by **metalhead** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:09 pm

Seriously people, maybe Rafa is getting Barry as a left back and not center midfield, anyone thought about that?

He would definitly add so much on our left back and as stu said before he would add quality to our defence.

Back to Alonso, very happy he is staying, top player and we need players like him if we want to win titles. You know if Alonso can play like he did against chelsea in the first leg then that would be just excellent

by **Sabre** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:16 pm

hope no offence is done with the use of english words, I just learn most of them from you lot and use it when I feel it fits, but I never mean to offend

Of course it's valid, and it would be ideal, but I think Alonso has some limitations in his game -- despite I'm a fan of his game -- and I'm not sure he's up to that role bigmick.

Yes, Alonso knows to get a ball in 3/4 of the pitch and change the orientation of the game to leave the wide man alone, you can see a good example in the first half of the last game, worth to replay pass.

Yes, Alonso knows to strike the ball, and yes, Alonso could make decent last passes for Torres.

But, and that's a big but, he tends to do those things when the team has been in posession for a while, we have incorporated men to the attack, and the opposition is deep. Alonso, can't receive the ball backwards, nor turn quickly. Alonso doesn't dribble, he skips the first man with a nice body gesture, but if there's a second defender waiting, he can't use a touch and run, he isn't pacy.

Alonso needs space to operate, because he's not as complete as Gerrard, he has limitations. So that, and certain abilities like the height mentioned by Saint makes of him a holding mid.

My point, if you give someone else the holding mid role, and you ask Alonso to be more bold, then he'd dissapoint us.

In the current configuration of the team alongside Mascherano, Alonso is praised when the team as a whole plays well. Because when the team has posession he does the appearances mentioned above, which are the ones that most people appreciate. The first leg was a good example of one of Alonso's "good" games. If the team isn't having the ball and you ask Alonso to roam to other places to get the ball, he'd be caught in posession and frustrate us.

Playing well and having a lot of posession is partially up to Alonso of course, but also the rest of the team -- Babel doing correct decissions for instance.

Either you like as a holding mid, or we'll have to sell him. But we cannot ask pears to an oak tree. Barry could be a decent backup for the role for what I read, so if he comes, it will mean Xabi will leave, it's my hunch anyway

by **account deleted by request** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:41 pm

Barry would be more comfortable in the role Bigmick is talking about Sabre. He is good going forward, gets in the box and scores goals as well as having height and physical presence. Its Barry's versatility that may be the reason that Rafa wants him. Play 4-4-2 and one of Mascherano or Alonso miss out, whereas with Barry he can also play Left mid or Left back, so could still play a role.(certainly if Riise goes he would be ideal)

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:51 pm

barry left back...alonso and mascherano to stay as the central midfielders. Barry is a much better left back than what we have, or are likely to get.

by **ConnO'var** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:53 pm

I'd prefer for the Alonso of old to stay. Of that, there is no doubt in my mind..... but as some have already said, Alonso needs quality around him, especially in the flanks to be truly effective again as I feel his style has already been sussed out by most teams in the premiership and he's easily negated without proper outlets on the wings. Just press him and give him less time on the ball and he's effectiveness in attack is blunted.

So if money is an issue and it came down to keeping Alonso or getting a quality winger or creative 2nd striker..... then sadly, my choice would have to be either of the latter. IF we can get afford the required quality and still keep Xabi, then all the better.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:36 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:glad to see Xabi staying. hasn't been at his best, but is still a top player.

Yeah but your saying it as if he has a choice. All he is basically saying is he has no intentions of placing a transfer request. Whether or not Benitez uses the sale of Alonso to fund a Barry purchase is yet to be seen.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:25 pm

Alonso says he is staying, Good or bad ?

Definitely good.

by **JC_81** » Fri May 02, 2008 10:22 pm

Personally I'd sell Alonso this summer.

For me it's not just this season he has disappointed, when you analyse it the only season he has played consistently well for us has been his first. Since then his performance levels have dropped.

Reasons? It has been suggested that opposition close him down more quickly which he doesn't like, and I agree to an extent. Another reason is that he has a lot of niggling, if not serious, injuries, which cause his form to stutter. But being susceptible to injuries is a problem in itself. He is still capable of having the odd blinder, but he is not consistent anymore and as much as he is a good player, decent lad and seemingly wants to stay, I think it's time to sell him.

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