Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:55 am

Sabre wrote:
SundanceKid wrote:Doesn't his contract last till 2010?

Yes. But it's a newkit mantra that he's been poor the last two seasons and many people think that this summer he'd be off. At some point even sums like 10M qud for a Spanish international were shuffled, mind you.

I haven't seen much of players like Barry or Johnson, but I doubt they'll improve what Alonso provides, Alonso is after all a Spanish international and it's expensive to reach there -- ask Arteta. Aragones has said yesterday in a conference in my town that he'll be key in the Spanish squad in the next years

Unlike many posters here, the Spanish coach thinks that Alonso's game has progressed and the only thing that he didn't use to like about Alonso's game, some "defensive details", have been polished in these last years in Liverpool. IMHO, he's more a mature player than the still unexperienced --2 years on top division in not a big club-- player that came from Spain.

If we lose a spanish international in the holding mid position, then I'd want someone, prefferably international of a important football country (Mascherano like) as a replacement. Otherwise, we'd lose quality and having a deep quality squad is a must if you want to be more than simply good and you want to compete for everything.

Always nice to hear that he wants to stay, but that's not much of a surprise.

Barry does play for England Sabre or are we not an important football nation anymore

Just cos we lost out to Croatia doesn't mean we are [email]cr@p......does[/email] it

by **laza** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:59 am

So we sell Alonso and then use precious transfer funds to buy another CM, then we spend the next season moaning about not having quality out on the wings

by **Paul C** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:41 am

I'd keep Alonso, I think the 3 man CM with him, Stevie and Mascha works really well and gives Alonso more space with Gerrard in a more advance role and Mascherano in a holding position, I think he's better than Barry and we'd only pay the same for Barry as we would get for selling Alonso imo, plus Barry is a few years older too.

by **Kharhaz** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:43 am

laza wrote:So we sell Alonso and then use precious transfer funds to buy another CM, then we spend the next season moaning about not having quality out on the wings

Its very frustrating. The 4-2-3-1 formation seemed to work well but against the top teams in the premiership they have it sussed. 4-4-2 we look good but all of us admit we do need another quality striker. Crouch scores goals, but as rafa seems to have little patience with him so do most supporters. If he scores then great he is showing his quality if he doesnt then he needs to be out. Right midfield is sorted. Shift Gerrard out there. We have mascha and alonso but as some have pointed out we dont have the talent on the wings to receive his passing. Left wing, babel will come good but we do need back up. Alonso has had a poor season, I would like to blame injurys but even with a good run in the team he has looked short of quality. Another CM would be good as back up, as would a striker and a winger who could play equally as well on both sides of the pitch. I also think a right hand would benefit rafa massively. He needs someone to say "NO!" amongst his yes men.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:47 am

laza wrote:So we sell Alonso and then use precious transfer funds to buy another CM, then we spend the next season moaning about not having quality out on the wings

To be fair to Barry and Johnson, they both offer far more going forward than Alonso, so it wouldn't be exactly like for like, especially with Johnson who is more of a poormans Gerrard than similar to Alonso.

I do agree that our priorities should lie elsewhere, but I suppose it depends on what formation Rafa decides on for next season as to who would best fill the role partnering Mascherano.

I am hoping we will start to hear of more exciting signings for the wide positions shortly.

by **laza** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:56 am

Its just frustrating for me Saint that once you go past all the anti rotation/off field antics etc, for me we just dont have enough quality in the side to go that extra step. Yet central midfield, we have had situation where Gerrard has been played out on right due to amount of riches we have in that area

Im a Alonso fan and still believe he will bounce back , but also think we will rue the selling of Sissokko at some stage plus we have bright prospects coming up as well.

Yet out on wings we struggle to sign a quality. Im not going to knock the signing of Yossi because unlike some, i think he been great value for 4 million. Whether fans like or not you do need those type of signings but its still a squad signing not a first XI.

I expect we will still have limited transfer kitty and priority for me would be for a class winger

by **Kharhaz** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:17 am

As you mentioned the other night saint. I dont reply on matchdays. I do. A lot. But my opinions are never acknowledged. Unless they are used by other members. I speak a lot, on what is going but even on the most recent, never acknowledged what I say unless it is spoken by another member and then it is credible.Why do I bother? I have lost count of the amount of points raised by myself which have been ignored but when someone else raises them its a good point. I grow tired of this forum.

by **whylongball?** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:44 am

my point of view is that Alonso is a luxury to have, definitely not essential. If we need money to buy a top class winger then he can go to raise the fund.
As for 1 or 2 holding CM, its really depends on who we play against and what result you want to get. If we need a draw then 2 holding/defensive CMs are the way to go. If you want to beat Barnsley then its silly to play 2 defensive CMs. Correct me if i'm wrong but Rafa seems to prefer 2 defensive CMs all the time. Thats is rigid imo

by **bigmick** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:56 am

Well didn't the excellent Valencia team which won the Spanish League twice have two holding midfielders? (I have absolutely no idea if this is true but I was under the impression it is so probably from reading it on here). I guess as I've said in my post that if you have goalscoring and creating wide midfielders, full backs who bomb on and a rock solid defence you might be able to make it work in England as well. We though simply don't have the personel in the positions other than central midfield to make it work it doesn't seem to me.

I guess the nearest that anybody came to having that system over here would be Mourinho's Chelsea. They had Makeleli as now patrolling in front of the back four and Lampard doing the Gerrard goalscoring midfielder bit. Crucially though, they had Robben on one flank and Duff on the other. The other slot was taken by a kind of half and half player, playing in a similar way to that which I think Xabi should play. As I remember Tiago did it for Chelsea, and I cannot believe that if Alonso put his mind to it he couldn't do a better job than the Portuguese. The other difference was that they had Drogba up top. Torres is a great footballer in my view but perhaps someone with the power and physicality of Drogba is more suited long term to a lone striker role.

I can't get away from thinking that if we are to be seen at our very best, Gerrard is either going to have to play on the right or box to box. Then we get back into this creative second striker thing of Saints (how come he didn't get a mention in the "what happens after a defeat" thread

). For me though, if there is to be a single holding midfielder in a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1, it's Masherano.

by **Leonmc0708** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:36 am

We need to add real strength in depth to our squad for any kind of title challenge, now is not the time to be ripping up and starting again, its the time to add some real quality.

I hope we only lose the wasters (Kewell, Itanje, Vornin and LE Tallac).

If Crouch feels he must leave, then let him go, he will only be moving down from here.

Quality additions.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:44 am

I don't know about Alonso staying. He's an excellent player but he and Masch don't work together so well. They just aren't dominating games as much as I'd like them to. Something is missing in that partnership, maybe it's pace or hunger. I'd just like to see someone whose more mobile to partner up with Masch. Montolivo would be fantastic.

by **whylongball?** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:52 am

bigmick wrote:Well didn't the excellent Valencia team which won the Spanish League twice have two holding midfielders? (I have absolutely no idea if this is true but I was under the impression it is so probably from reading it on here). I guess as I've said in my post that if you have goalscoring and creating wide midfielders, full backs who bomb on and a rock solid defence you might be able to make it work in England as well. We though simply don't have the personel in the positions other than central midfield to make it work it doesn't seem to me.

I guess the nearest that anybody came to having that system over here would be Mourinho's Chelsea. They had Makeleli as now patrolling in front of the back four and Lampard doing the Gerrard goalscoring midfielder bit. Crucially though, they had Robben on one flank and Duff on the other. The other slot was taken by a kind of half and half player, playing in a similar way to that which I think Xabi should play. As I remember Tiago did it for Chelsea, and I cannot believe that if Alonso put his mind to it he couldn't do a better job than the Portuguese. The other difference was that they had Drogba up top. Torres is a great footballer in my view but perhaps someone with the power and physicality of Drogba is more suited long term to a lone striker role.

I can't get away from thinking that if we are to be seen at our very best, Gerrard is either going to have to play on the right or box to box. Then we get back into this creative second striker thing of Saints (how come he didn't get a mention in the "what happens after a defeat" thread ). For me though, if there is to be a single holding midfielder in a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1, it's Masherano.

i know what you mean. However, that valencia had good wingers and creative Aimar.
For the current squad w/o good wingers, the way to make it more attacking is to play players with better movement and flair like Benayoun through the middle, of course at the price of weaker defence. Or another way is like you said to play SG on the right with more freedom to roam around.
And yes, when it comes down to the holding midfield it has got to be Maschenaro.

by **bunglemark2** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:38 am

Read in one of the freesheets this morning that Rafa is targeting Barry, Bentley and two players from Spain (quelle surprise !) in the off season. Of the two Spaniards, one is a central defender....can't remember who the other was.
Not a very accurate post I know, but I'll check it later.
I'm no football manager but I don't see what Barry or Bentley have that we currently don't have, or what they will bring to the squad. I'm with him on the defensive thing though. Agger, Carra, Skrtel and A.N. Other...along with at least i each RB and LB. I'm a big fan of Finnan, always have been. Riise - time to say thanks for the memories....

by **tubby** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:53 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:We need to add real strength in depth to our squad for any kind of title challenge, now is not the time to be ripping up and starting again, its the time to add some real quality.

I hope we only lose the wasters (Kewell, Itanje, Vornin and LE Tallac).

If Crouch feels he must leave, then let him go, he will only be moving down from here.

Quality additions.

Exactly. Now that Momo has gone there is no reason for Alonso to go. If we are serious about going for the league next season then we need real depth in our squad just like Leon says. Otherwise it will just be the same old story come this time next season. Anyway Lukas isnt even 1st team material yet imo so he still has a lot to prove.

by **tubby** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:04 am

Yeah I read that also. Name starts with an A or something. Anyway I think we could definatley use Bently as Pennant is :censored:

. Not sure about barry. Also if Barry came that would surley push Lukas out of the pecking order. I dont really care who we sign as long as they have the quality to help improve the strength in depth of the team. We need to have quality in the bench aswell as on the 1st team.

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