Liverpool FC Forum

by **JoeTerp** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:03 pm

Paraguay did pretty in South American qualifying. But I question how well it will translate on the world stage. Plus they have the weakest side in the whole tournament in their group

by **Sabre** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:54 pm

Too easy group for Spain, only Chile will pose some opposition.

But very difficult road to the final, we'll face Portugal presumably in 1/16 finals. :m

I would have preffered a tougher group, not for over confidence reasons, but because it's not good to have 3 easy games and all of a sudden a very tough game. Sometimes it's good to suffer a little bit in the qualification group.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:56 am

Prior to the draw I thought that USA was one to avoid. Now as much as they weren't the ideal draw, the combination of us playing them first and the two doddle fixtures after - I can't see anything but 9 points and a healthy goal difference.

by **Owzat** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:18 am

LFC2007 wrote:

D, F and G look the toughest....E not far behind, while France will have a real challenge on their hands.

C and H look pretty comfortable for England and Spain.

Group B is an odd bunch.

It's a poor draw, too many weak sides with the Africans having six teams and a poor track record overall with the odd QF, New Zealand plus four Asian teams who've only fared that well when hosting, the usual ordinary fare from Central America plus a few other ordinary sides like Slovenia, Switzerland, Uruguay and Paraguay. It may now truly be a 'World' Cup, but it makes for some pretty weak groups.

Not sure France have any kind of challenge on their hands, Mexico are R2 regulars, South Africa are no great shakes while Uruguay last got past R2 in 1970 and have missed FIVE tournaments inbetween.

GROUP A

South Africa - Best = R1, Last = 2002 (R1)
Mexico - Best = QF (twice as host), Last = 2006 (R2)
Uruguay - Best = Winners (1930 & 1950), Last = 2002 (R1)
France - Best = Winners (1998), Last = 2006 (Runners-Up)

GROUP B

Argentina - Best = Winners (1978, 1986), Last = 2006 (QF)
Nigeria - Best = R2, Last = 2002 (R1)
South Korea - Best = 4th (2002 as co-hosts), Last = 2006 (R1)
Greece - Best = R1 (1994), Last = 1994 (R1)

GROUP C

England - Best = Winners (1966), Last = 2006 (QF)
USA - Best = SF (1930), Last = 2006 (R1)
Algeria - Best = R1 (twice), Last = 1986 (R1)
Slovenia - Best = R1 (2002), Last = 2002 (R1)

GROUP D

Germany - Best = Winners (1954, 1974, 1990), Last = 2006 (3rd)
Australia - Best = R2 (2006), Last = 2002 (R2)
Serbia* - Best = R1 (2006), Last = 2006 (R1)
Ghana - Best = R2 (2006), Last = 2006 (R2)

*as Serbia, anything much better was in the old Yugoslavia days

GROUP E

Holland - Best = Runners-Up (twice), Last = 2006 (R2)
Denmark - Best = QF (1998), Last = 2002 (R2)
Japan - Best = R2 (2002), Last = 2006 (R1)
Cameroon - Best = QF (1990), Last = 2002 (R1)

GROUP F

Italy - Best = Winners (1934, 1938, 1982, 2006), Last = 2006 (Winners)
Paraguay - Best = QF (twice), Last = 2006 (R1)
New Zealand - Best = R1 (1982), Last = 1982 (R1)
Slovakia - n/a (1st time since Czecho-slovakia)

GROUP G

Brazil - Best = Winners (1958, 1962, 1970, 1994, 2002), Last = 2006 (QF)
North Korea - Best = QF (1966), Last = 1966 (QF)
Ivory Coast - Best = R1 (2006), Last = 2006 (R1)
Portugal - Best = 3rd (1966), Last = 2006 (4th)

GROUP H

Spain - Best = 4th (1950), Last = 2006 (R2)
Switzerland - Best = QF (once as hosts), Last 2006 (R2)
Honduras - Best = R1 (1982), Last = 1982 (R1)
Chile - Best = 3rd (1962 as hosts), Last = 1998 (R2)

by **Number 9** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:24 am

Owzat wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:

D, F and G look the toughest....E not far behind, while France will have a real challenge on their hands.

C and H look pretty comfortable for England and Spain.

Group B is an odd bunch.

It's a poor draw, too many weak sides with the Africans having six teams and a poor track record overall with the odd QF, New Zealand plus four Asian teams who've only fared that well when hosting, the usual ordinary fare from Central America plus a few other ordinary sides like Slovenia, Switzerland, Uruguay and Paraguay. It may now truly be a 'World' Cup, but it makes for some pretty weak groups.

Not sure France have any kind of challenge on their hands, Mexico are R2 regulars, South Africa are no great shakes while Uruguay last got past R2 in 1970 and have missed FIVE tournaments inbetween.

GROUP A

South Africa - Best = R1, Last = 2002 (R1)
Mexico - Best = QF (twice as host), Last = 2006 (R2)
Uruguay - Best = Winners (1930 & 1950), Last = 2002 (R1)
France - Best = Winners (1998), Last = 2006 (Runners-Up)

GROUP B

Argentina - Best = Winners (1978, 1986), Last = 2006 (QF)
Nigeria - Best = R2, Last = 2002 (R1)
South Korea - Best = 4th (2002 as co-hosts), Last = 2006 (R1)
Greece - Best = R1 (1994), Last = 1994 (R1)

GROUP C

England - Best = Winners (1966), Last = 2006 (QF)
USA - Best = SF (1930), Last = 2006 (R1)
Algeria - Best = R1 (twice), Last = 1986 (R1)
Slovenia - Best = R1 (2002), Last = 2002 (R1)

GROUP D

Germany - Best = Winners (1954, 1974, 1990), Last = 2006 (3rd)
Australia - Best = R2 (2006), Last = 2002 (R2)
Serbia* - Best = R1 (2006), Last = 2006 (R1)
Ghana - Best = R2 (2006), Last = 2006 (R2)

*as Serbia, anything much better was in the old Yugoslavia days

GROUP E

Holland - Best = Runners-Up (twice), Last = 2006 (R2)
Denmark - Best = QF (1998), Last = 2002 (R2)
Japan - Best = R2 (2002), Last = 2006 (R1)
Cameroon - Best = QF (1990), Last = 2002 (R1)

GROUP F

Italy - Best = Winners (1934, 1938, 1982, 2006), Last = 2006 (Winners)
Paraguay - Best = QF (twice), Last = 2006 (R1)
New Zealand - Best = R1 (1982), Last = 1982 (R1)
Slovakia - n/a (1st time since Czecho-slovakia)

GROUP G

Brazil - Best = Winners (1958, 1962, 1970, 1994, 2002), Last = 2006 (QF)
North Korea - Best = QF (1966), Last = 1966 (QF)
Ivory Coast - Best = R1 (2006), Last = 2006 (R1)
Portugal - Best = 3rd (1966), Last = 2006 (4th)

GROUP H

Spain - Best = 4th (1950), Last = 2006 (R2)
Switzerland - Best = QF (once as hosts), Last 2006 (R2)
Honduras - Best = R1 (1982), Last = 1982 (R1)
Chile - Best = 3rd (1962 as hosts), Last = 1998 (R2)

give the guy stick in past but that is fantastic :nod

by **Owzat** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:38 am

Group A - the has-beens and never was group. France should walk it, South Africa may make use of home advantage but Uruguay have long been a poor side while Mexico haven't reached the QFs since the last and only two times they hosted. Prior to that they only reached the QF stage 1950 and before.

Group B - Argentina should walk this group, South Korea only get out of the groups when hosting, Nigeria have never done much and while Greece may have won the Euros (somehow), this is only their second World Cup appearance albeit they have as good a chance of progressing as Nigeria and Korea

Group C - England look the pick of a poor bunch, Algeria and Slovenia have little experience and neither made it in 2006 - in fact Algeria haven't qualified since 1986. USA have never made the step up, they have progressed from group stagers but only by the odd step or two. They made use of the conditions well in 2002, they may well go through with England - that is if England don't f up bigtime, opening game may be 'settle for a draw' for both sides

Group D - many think this is a tough group, I'm not that convinced. Sure the aussies, Serbia and Ghana are decent sides, but that doesn't make them great. None has reached a World Cup QF so none has any great pedigree

Group E - Holland may find this as easy as their qualifying group. Japan haven't improved as much as quickly as might have been hoped, Cameroon have long since stopped being the side that scared the cr a p out of England in 1990 and Denmark haven't been a force of any great note since they upset the odds at Euro 92 having got in through the back door (Yugoslavia qualified but were banned, the same group in which the Faroes famously beat Austria)

Group F - Italy won't lose sleep over this group, Paraguay have never been anything more than pageboys, Slovakia might cause an upset but this is their first venture to a tournament without being part of Czechoslovakia and New Zealand looked poor at the recent tournament in South Africa.

Group G - Portugal might do Brazil a favour and force them into early form, North Korea have done nothing since 1966 as that is the last time they qualified and shook a few teams up, and Ivory Coast need to show they are one of the best, if not THE best, African side. I doubt the latter two will trouble Brazil, they might shock Portugal if they are as unconvincing as they were getting to the finals via the play-offs.

Group H - Spain must be as happy as I would have been had England drawn this group. Honduras haven't qualified since (Spain) 1982, that from a fairly poor qualifying region where it is USA and Mexico plus another. Switzerland haven't ever shaken the world with their football, their only QF as hosts and despite some decent shows in the early World Cup tournaments, they didn't qualify between 1966 and 1994. Chile last qualified in 1998, they've done nothing but qualify infrequently (including a ban from 1994) since they finished 3rd as hosts in 1962.

Overall there are too many ordinary sides for me to think any of the top seeds will not qualify, most if not all should top their groups. With only two strong sides in the Europe pot there was never much chance of England having a really tough group, it is just desserts that South Africa should get France since the hosts being weak(er) and being top seeds is only done to try and keep them in the tournament as long as possible ie they are not deserving. The region protection thing is a joke now that there are so many sides from Africa, it just means the European teams should enjoy two weak sides in their group and I wouldn't be too surprised if the QFs are Argentina, Brazil and six European sides - although sod's law says at least one side will party poop

by **Owzat** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:40 am

Number 9 wrote:give the guy stick in past but that is fantastic

Thankyou, I think it is a useful way to display the groups as it is a relatively simple gauge of strength. I do it when they draw UEFA qualifying groups, last time teams reached the finals etc. It really highlights (in the case of qualifying) which groups are strong and which are not so, you can end up with three teams who played in the last tournament in one group and just one in the next

by **Owzat** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:44 am

SouthCoastShankly wrote:Prior to the draw I thought that USA was one to avoid. Now as much as they weren't the ideal draw, the combination of us playing them first and the two doddle fixtures after - I can't see anything but 9 points and a healthy goal difference.

I'm not so sure, England v USA may well be cagey with neither side wanting to lose their opening fixture which is (on paper) their toughest. Both will fancy beating Algeria and Slovenia, USA might need to beat England either head2head or on GD to top the group, but might settle instead just to go through. Whoever the USA face in R2, assuming they do go through, will be favourites anyway.

Can't see USA being that brave, they'd be better off getting a draw and trying to win on GD.

by **woof woof !** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:13 pm

Great input Owzat.

The groups do seem fairly bland, group G possibly the most interesting in terms of who'll come through.

I've got a funny feeling however that group A will provide at least one surprising result, France maybe dropping points against the host nation.

by **Dundalk** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:49 pm

Spain Vs Brasil/Portugal/Ivory Coast in the second round :oh:

by **Big Niall** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:27 pm

What a draw for England.

They'll win their group, beat Australia/Serbia in the next round, beat France/Argentina in the quarters and get to the semis.

They won't beat Brazil in the semis but still a good world cup.

Spain to beat Brazil in the final.

by **Big Niall** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:29 pm

Dundalk wrote:Spain Vs Brasil/Portugal/Ivory Coast in the second round

brazil will win their group. Portugal and Ivory coast are both a bit sh1t so what's the big deal?

by **Big Niall** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:34 pm

I think 32 teams is too much, they should go back to 24 teams. Most of the Africans and Asian teams are krap and never do anything.

by **Julio-0** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:56 pm

Too easy group for italy...

by **LFC2007** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:40 pm

Owzat wrote:It's a poor draw, too many weak sides with the Africans having six teams and a poor track record overall with the odd QF, New Zealand plus four Asian teams who've only fared that well when hosting, the usual ordinary fare from Central America plus a few other ordinary sides like Slovenia, Switzerland, Uruguay and Paraguay. It may now truly be a 'World' Cup, but it makes for some pretty weak groups.

Not sure France have any kind of challenge on their hands, Mexico are R2 regulars, South Africa are no great shakes while Uruguay last got past R2 in 1970 and have missed FIVE tournaments inbetween.

GROUP A

South Africa - Best = R1, Last = 2002 (R1)
Mexico - Best = QF (twice as host), Last = 2006 (R2)
Uruguay - Best = Winners (1930 & 1950), Last = 2002 (R1)
France - Best = Winners (1998), Last = 2006 (Runners-Up)

GROUP B

Argentina - Best = Winners (1978, 1986), Last = 2006 (QF)
Nigeria - Best = R2, Last = 2002 (R1)
South Korea - Best = 4th (2002 as co-hosts), Last = 2006 (R1)
Greece - Best = R1 (1994), Last = 1994 (R1)

GROUP C

England - Best = Winners (1966), Last = 2006 (QF)
USA - Best = SF (1930), Last = 2006 (R1)
Algeria - Best = R1 (twice), Last = 1986 (R1)
Slovenia - Best = R1 (2002), Last = 2002 (R1)

GROUP D

Germany - Best = Winners (1954, 1974, 1990), Last = 2006 (3rd)
Australia - Best = R2 (2006), Last = 2002 (R2)
Serbia* - Best = R1 (2006), Last = 2006 (R1)
Ghana - Best = R2 (2006), Last = 2006 (R2)

*as Serbia, anything much better was in the old Yugoslavia days

GROUP E

Holland - Best = Runners-Up (twice), Last = 2006 (R2)
Denmark - Best = QF (1998), Last = 2002 (R2)
Japan - Best = R2 (2002), Last = 2006 (R1)
Cameroon - Best = QF (1990), Last = 2002 (R1)

GROUP F

Italy - Best = Winners (1934, 1938, 1982, 2006), Last = 2006 (Winners)
Paraguay - Best = QF (twice), Last = 2006 (R1)
New Zealand - Best = R1 (1982), Last = 1982 (R1)
Slovakia - n/a (1st time since Czecho-slovakia)

GROUP G

Brazil - Best = Winners (1958, 1962, 1970, 1994, 2002), Last = 2006 (QF)
North Korea - Best = QF (1966), Last = 1966 (QF)
Ivory Coast - Best = R1 (2006), Last = 2006 (R1)
Portugal - Best = 3rd (1966), Last = 2006 (4th)

GROUP H

Spain - Best = 4th (1950), Last = 2006 (R2)
Switzerland - Best = QF (once as hosts), Last 2006 (R2)
Honduras - Best = R1 (1982), Last = 1982 (R1)
Chile - Best = 3rd (1962 as hosts), Last = 1998 (R2)

I don't agree mate. I think it looks like a reasonably strong competition. England, Spain and Brazil are all better sides than they were back in '06, Argentina notably worse, so too are France, and the other big fish not too dissimilar to what they were. I think Ghana, Ivory Coast, Nigeria and Cameroon all have very realistic chances of qualifying and the first two even better chances of doing something more than just the last 16. Paraguay are better than ordinary, they are a solid outift with some tricky players up front and an experienced coach. On the whole, the remainder aren't too different from what you'd normally see.

I don't think WC records are a reliable indicator of the strength of a team. In 2002 it didn't stop France from finishing bottom of their group, nor Argentina from failing to qualify from theirs. I don't see it deterring one of the African sides from doing a South Korea for instance...in fact I think that's a real possibility with it being effectively on home soil.

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