Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dazzer** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:57 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:This is starting to feel stale, just as when Houllier was here. Great manager but has he taken us a far as he can?

i concur. i voted for rafa. he has wasted too much money on mediocre players when quality was actually the players he sold. for example:

1) Warnock > dossena
2) Cisse > babel
3) Riise > dossena
4) Hamann > lucas
5) Finnan > degen
6) Fowler > ngog
7) Crouch > voronin
8) Hyypia - greekos

many players or proven quality he should have kept but sold and their replacements are pure trash. another player whom i wish was given a new contract was Kewell. yes he may have had a torrid spell on the sidelines but if he has so much patience with Aurelio, why not Kewell? put it this way, if Baros, Cisse and Crouch were here today, our strikeforce would be so so so much better than what we currently have (or not have) right now. and Sinama should never had been sold.

top teams don't rely on just 2 players the way we do. look at Arsenal and the maturity of their kids compared to ours. and if money is such as issue, why purchase a keeper who hardly ever plays? Diego cost us around 3mill didnt he? the money could've been spent elsewhere surely? im sure Cudicini and Sorenson were available for free back then. lets take a look at the recent transfers in europe. the prices of these players are obscenely low and we would have much better depth were they to be in our team today..

Crespo - unsure of the amount but if Genoa can afford him, why not us?
Mellborg - he recently signed for Olympiakos for just 2.5million.
Podolski - left Munich for 10million
Duff - joined Fulham for 4.7million
Niemi - free transfer
Lorik Cana -5.5million to Sunderland
Kranjcar - 2.8million to Spurs
Tuncay - 5.7million to Stoke
Maxwell - Inter to Barca for 4.5million

the above mentioned are merely some players whom rafa could have bought instead of who rafa eventually did. blame the owners as much as you want but they are not responsible for rafa's pathetic record when it comes to transfers. besides that, i feel he lacks imagination when it comes to tactics. all our opponents have to do is nullify Gerrard and Torres and we no longer have much of a threat anymore as time and time again our team depends on those 2 to come up with something out of nothing.

I agree much was said about Gerard Houllier but he won 3 cups in his time and Rafa has won 2 ?

You could say Rafa won the CL with most of Gerard Houllier's squad.

Fact is more time rafa has been at our club the worse the squad has got that does not seem like progress to me.Yes we did finish 2nd last season but 2nd never wins you any thing.

End of day tactics only get you so far in football if you don't have players who want to play for you then you stuffed and the players didn't look like they could be assed tbh.

Rafa is cold manager and its fine when you winning when the wheels fall off it really shows I think there isn't much love in the dressing room and I guess that grinds on a players confidence after a while.Rafa needs to change he needs to carebear up a bit and put his arm around a player now and agian and show some love.If he could do this I think it be first step to becomming a great manager.

by **Octsky** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:05 pm

Seeing this as a pivotal season for both Rafa and Wenger.
Wenger hasnt won anything for 6 seasons and the board unhappy about this, if (that is a big if) Gooners decided to sack Wenger. I said Wenger will be a great LFC manager, although unlikely he will come to us.

Sadly Rafa has lost his "shine" as one of the brightest coach in the world, playing 5-4-1 against Sunderland? What are we trying to prove? That we can get a point at the holy ground of stadium of light??

by **Reg** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:06 pm

Urgent message from all those still whinging about yesterday's game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAVoQfoU0dQ

by **Penguins** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:07 pm

heimdall wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:An fecking loads with there head buried in the sand, an all.
im not saying Rafa dosnt make mistakes , He does , Hes also made some bad buys, them who havnt worked out or fitted in with our style of play have been shipped out sharpish, Yes there are hangers on an they need getting rid of an all i agree, But apart from one player who we have hopefully replaced for a considerably less sum that the money we got, this is practicaly the same set of players as last season, Was last season a fluke then

So what's gone wrong then Nanny, has rafa lost the dressing room, is he playing sh1t tactics, playing players out of position, what is going on?

One thing is for certain, the teams bad results and form can't be directly blamed on the owners if you say they are the same players as last season!

But if you don't improve and other teams do improve doesn't that affect us?

Spurs, Villa and Sunderland aren't the same teams as last year even if we are...

They have strengthen and invested in their squad which we have not.

by **Dazzer** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:08 pm

Octsky wrote:Seeing this as a pivotal season for both Rafa and Wenger.
Wenger hasnt won anything for 6 seasons and the board unhappy about this, if (that is a big if) Gooners decided to sack Wenger. I said Wenger will be a great LFC manager, although unlikely he will come to us.

Sadly Rafa has lost his "shine" as one of the brightest coach in the world, playing 5-4-1 against Sunderland? What are we trying to prove? That we can get a point at the holy ground of stadium of light??

Yes a top 4 side shouldn't need to play 4-5-1 vs that team we should be able to match up man for man and just take game to them.

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:20 pm

Dazzer why the h.ell should Rafa be giving them huggs an kisses ffs they are paid thousands of pounds a week to play footie mate, its not a fecking nursery, I remember when Shanks was the manager if a player got injured or was out he wouldnt even talk to them until they wereready for selection. An when St John was on his way out an he dropped him he never spoke to him for months, There here to pull that shirt on an play.
An you mentioned Rafa winning it with Houliers Squad , Same type of football an tactics an all was it then,

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:25 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Dazzer why the h.ell should Rafa be giving them huggs an kisses ffs they are paid thousands of pounds a week to play footie mate, its not a fecking nursery, I remember when Shanks was the manager if a player got injured or was out he wouldnt even talk to them until they wereready for selection. An when St John was on his way out an he dropped him he never spoke to him for months, There here to pull that shirt on an play.
An you mentioned Rafa winning it with Houliers Squad , Same type of football an tactics an all was it then,

Please dont compare Rafa with Shankley....
:no

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:34 pm

Penguins wrote:
heimdall wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:An fecking loads with there head buried in the sand, an all.
im not saying Rafa dosnt make mistakes , He does , Hes also made some bad buys, them who havnt worked out or fitted in with our style of play have been shipped out sharpish, Yes there are hangers on an they need getting rid of an all i agree, But apart from one player who we have hopefully replaced for a considerably less sum that the money we got, this is practicaly the same set of players as last season, Was last season a fluke then

So what's gone wrong then Nanny, has rafa lost the dressing room, is he playing sh1t tactics, playing players out of position, what is going on?

One thing is for certain, the teams bad results and form can't be directly blamed on the owners if you say they are the same players as last season!

But if you don't improve and other teams do improve doesn't that affect us?

Spurs, Villa and Sunderland aren't the same teams as last year even if we are...

They have strengthen and invested in their squad which we have not.

Thats what some cant see mate, Every other team has spent an have improved, We sold one of the worlds best midfielders bought on the never never an the rest of the money went the bank,

Hasnt anyone thought the players might be p/issed off all like we are because they to like Rafa thought we were gonna be spending on a few more players, Them two said there was money, They waived a couple of top players under our noses gave Rafa a whiff an a peak an then said sorry Raffa lad you can look but not touch,

The little one has said we are covered for lose of any Champions league money,its in the budget We will ok, Well he must be fecking sh.itting himself at the moment

by **maguskwt** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:36 pm

Some people on here need some lessons on modern football formations. In modern football, there is no such thing as a formation being a defensive or offensive. It really depends on how you execute it and what type of players are playing. If you're playing Johnson and Aurelio as wing backs can it be called a 5-3-1? or is it 3-5-1. Well the answer is that it is BOTH! this is the flexibility of this system and you need to have wingbacks who have lots of stamina. If you're pressing your opponents the wingbacks attack and become 3-5-1. If you're defending the wing backs track back and becomes 5-3-1. Similarly if you're playing 3 in the middle than it can be the offensive 4-3-3 or defensive 4-5-1 or it can also still be a 4-4-2 (see Gerrard and Torres attacking). People on here seem to just see what they wanna see and say "arghh how can rafa play 4-5-1 (worse 5-4-1) against this team or that team". Yesterday we had kuyt, babel and benayoun as attacking players and johnson and aurelio also joins in the attacks from the wings. Can't it be said then that this is 3-2-2-3? To me it looked like a pretty balanced team and shouldn't have any problems beating Sunderland on paper. And yet we have people generalizing it "ughhh rafa is playing 5-4-1 against Sunderland". :no

The old-fasion-ness on here sometimes beggars believe.

by **mart** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:37 pm

Sir Roger wrote:The team which ended last season on the coat tails of the skanks, and if there had been two more games at the end of the season probably could have won the league, seems to have disappered into thin air. Because Alonso has gone? Really? Was he that influential? We gained an attacking defender which gives us a different option. So why has it all gone ti'ts up?[I]

Alonso was incredibly influential to our game. But thats not the whole story. Carra has been showing signs he is past it, and the partnership with skrtel has been shaky. Johnson for all his attacking flair is not that great defending. Defensively we would have been better off with arbeloa, but he wanted to go join the new galacticos with alonso. Mascherano shows how limited he is as a player when he dont have alonso next to him. Lucas is not so bad as everyone makes him out to be, but he cant do what alonso did. On top of that we got torres and gerrard out of form.

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:53 pm

Sir Roger wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Dazzer why the h.ell should Rafa be giving them huggs an kisses ffs they are paid thousands of pounds a week to play footie mate, its not a fecking nursery, I remember when Shanks was the manager if a player got injured or was out he wouldnt even talk to them until they wereready for selection. An when St John was on his way out an he dropped him he never spoke to him for months, There here to pull that shirt on an play.
An you mentioned Rafa winning it with Houliers Squad , Same type of football an tactics an all was it then,

Please dont compare Rafa with Shankley....

Dont start mate im not in the mood tbh, i HAVE NOT AN WILL NOT COMPARE THE TWO, it was an example of Why a player dosnt needs molycoddling, I could of used Clough , the Larry LLoyd tie an blazer incerdent, The Trevor Francis incident, I could of used Docherty against Venables, These players are paid to play for the club, represent the club, its there job, When you feck up at work , does your boss put an arm round you an say no worries mate .

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:02 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Dazzer why the h.ell should Rafa be giving them huggs an kisses ffs they are paid thousands of pounds a week to play footie mate, its not a fecking nursery, I remember when Shanks was the manager if a player got injured or was out he wouldnt even talk to them until they wereready for selection. An when St John was on his way out an he dropped him he never spoke to him for months, There here to pull that shirt on an play.
An you mentioned Rafa winning it with Houliers Squad , Same type of football an tactics an all was it then,

Please dont compare Rafa with Shankley....

Dont start mate im not in the mood tbh, i HAVE NOT AN WILL NOT COMPARE THE TWO, it was an example of Why a player dosnt needs molycoddling, I could of used Clough , the Larry LLoyd tie an blazer incerdent, The Trevor Francis incident, I could of used Docherty against Venables, These players are paid to play for the club, represent the club, its there job, When you feck up at work , does your boss put an arm round you an say no worries mate .

Fair enough
Neither am I to be honest

I think its too late for Rafa to change anyway. He is what he is. I do think he would get more if he was less distant and aloof.

And by the way I work for myself so the answer is yes...
:;):

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:11 pm

Thats it pat yourself on the back, my shoulder is red roar :laugh:

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:16 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Thats it pat yourself on the back, my shoulder is red roar

My ar'se would be if I kicked it every time I fu'cked up...

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:16 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Dazzer why the h.ell should Rafa be giving them huggs an kisses ffs they are paid thousands of pounds a week to play footie mate, its not a fecking nursery, I remember when Shanks was the manager if a player got injured or was out he wouldnt even talk to them until they wereready for selection. An when St John was on his way out an he dropped him he never spoke to him for months, There here to pull that shirt on an play.
An you mentioned Rafa winning it with Houliers Squad , Same type of football an tactics an all was it then,

problem with rafa is that he seems too much of an authoritarian. he never seems happy with what he has and picks on the most intricate details to be negative about. what Dazzer and Sir Roger means is that if he could be a better motivator or simply put it, better at man-management, he would be better.

Liverpool FC Forum

The squad: not good enough /wo gerrard and torres - Who's fault is it?

The squad: not good enough /wo gerrard and torres - Who's fault is it?

Who is online