Liverpool FC Forum

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:38 pm

Been banned for two games - The precedent was set last season with the guy from lithuania getting banned for two days for "diving" are the FA going to follow similar lines in the Prem ? Do they have the bottle ??

Eduardo Banned

by **Kharhaz** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:30 am

I thought Arsenal were hard done by. Yes he dived, its cheating, but how often do you see one of the big clubs punished? How often has Ronaldo dived and got away with it? and Robben, and Drogba, to name but a few. Look at when we went out to Chelsea in the champions league. The diving in that game at stamford bridge was a joke. And yet, nobody from the top noticed. Or maybe they did but turned a blind eye. They wont continue with this punishing cheaters thing. We thought the FA would have to continue there "harassing" of the refs with Mascherano being made the example but look how that turned out.

by **SupitsJonF** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:18 am

I think its weird that he got a ban. Yes, he shouldn't of dived. But isn't simulation a yellow card offense? Maybe the ruling is different in the penalty area, im not sure, but if the ref caught it in the game surely it would of been yellow? And now because the refs missed it his yellow card becomes a bit short of a red. Not sure how i feel about that, unless diving in the area is a red card offense.

by **Dundalk** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:23 am

A 2 game ban for this sort of thing is good as it would quickly stop players diving but FIFA and UEFA wont have the balls to do this to everyone so it will ultimately work out to be unfair on the Croatian

by **tubby** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:25 am

I am pleased this has finally happened although they should have started this from last season so by this seaoson they would be used to it. But what happens at the world cup if people dive? I hope they have thought about this properly.

by **Greavesie** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:12 am

As far as I'm concerned Platini saw a player from an English side do something the foreigners do all the time and he's thought 'sh!t we can't have th English cheating like that!'. UEFA are w@nkers

however in no way do I agree with what Eduardo did. There was no need, But that said if Stevie dived and won us a pen that won us the CL or even the PL I wouldn't be complaining about cheating whatsoever. It's a bit of a double edged sword

by **Toffeehater** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:35 pm

It surely has to start somewhere and arsenal are the scapegoats or in this case eduardo , be interesting to see if this follows suit when the next incident occurs

by **JC_81** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:44 pm

Dundalk wrote:A 2 game ban for this sort of thing is good as it would quickly stop players diving but FIFA and UEFA wont have the balls to do this to everyone so it will ultimately work out to be unfair on the Croatian

I agree.

Although I think they've done it to make an example of him and perhaps deter others from diving. It might work, but probably only for a while. They must know they won't be able to punish every single dive on video evidence though. It's a strange decision imo.

by **Reinas No.1 Fan** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:04 pm

Greavesie wrote:As far as I'm concerned Platini saw a player from an English side do something the foreigners do all the time and he's thought 'sh!t we can't have th English cheating like that!'. UEFA are w@nkers

however in no way do I agree with what Eduardo did. There was no need, But that sais if Stevie dived and won us a pen that won us the CL or even the PL I wouldn't be complaining about chesting whatsoever. It's a bit of a double edged sword

Exactly

Lets see them do this with teams from other divisions of Europe

by **LFC2007** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:36 pm

They may have opened something GYBS is fairly familiar with, but I think it'll die down.

by **Number 9** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:24 pm

No excuse for the dive but it was nothing worse than something Ronaldo or Drogba got away with unpunished loads of times for a few seasons!
A dive is a dive,to me its cheating and I hate it...even when our own players do it!

I dont see the difference in whether the dive is in the C/L or the EPL or Bundesliga or wherever,it may be.They should not be dealt with severely in the C/L and practically deemed part of the game in the EPL ,there needs to be a consistency throughout football.
Make it simple,if a Ref is sure that a player has dived to try and gain a penalty,it should be a straight red card!
Once the divers see that refs are serious and the red card being implemented a few times they will stay on their feet

by **bigmick** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:35 pm

I've long advocated retrospective video evidence. It'd be very easy to do in the Prem, a three man panel and they revue all contensious issues from all the matches each week. If you dive and are found out, three match ban. If you dive and are awarded a penalty, ten match ban. It would cut it right down.

The hardest thing would be deciding what is a dive and what isn't. Pundits and people often talk about whether or not there was contact, and I think it's a bit of a Red Herring. If GYBS comes round my house and tw@ts me over the head with a baseball bat before throwing the bat down and writhing around on the floor, there was contact but it would be hard for him to argue that I'd used foul play towards him. There was "contact" for the penalty which Man Utd were awarded against Arsenal, but it wasn't a foul IMHO. Rooney knocked the ball past Almunia (and into the third row of the stands as it turned out) before dragging his leg into the keeper as he was throwing himself at the ground. That's a dive but impossible to prove, aided and abetted by extremely poor refereeing. For me, there has to be denial of a goalscoring opportunity and given the match ball had long since disappeared into some fans LIDL bag, there wasn't any of that.

Another one which pundits dredge up from the opposite side of the coin is whether or not the defender "got something on it" when they make a challenge. I think Bertie Vogts "got something on it" when he tackled Keegan in the 1977 European Cup Final, but he went through Keegan to get it which you aren't allowed to do.

You need a video panel, and you need good refs. Retrospective punishments for diving would solve much though. Also, when a player hits the deck and is writhing, he should be stretchered off and examined by a neutral doctor in the confines of the dressing room. He should not be allowed back onto the pitch until the examination is complete, all in the interests of safety of course. Similarly, if a team which is in the lead wishes to make a substitution when there are less than 15 minutes left of the match, an additional five minutes should automatically be added onto the clock. This will do two things. Firstly it will give the departing player plenty of time to shake hands with the ref, clap his fans, ruffle the opposition centre forwards hair and amble off. Secondly and entirely as a bi-product, it will stop the ridiculous spectacle of teams making a sub with 20 seconds left. People paying good money to watch deserve better.

by **J*o*n*D*o*e** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:03 am

its about time something was done to stop this, giving players a fine is never going to work so banning them is one way to make sure the message does get across, yes others have done it but it has to start somewhere and as this was as blatant as you can get its a good place to start.

you can see why Arsenal are :censored:

with the decision when only 3 days later they dont get a pen at old toilet for a foul and manure get one for a dive.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:11 am

bigmick wrote:The hardest thing would be deciding what is a dive and what isn't.

Correct, which is why I'd be against such proposals.

Ultimately you'd end up with protracted controversy as it would be difficult to establish which decisions to reverse and which to uphold. I've no doubt there would be some clear-cut cases that retrospective analysis would resolve, but you're left with a massive grey area and the panel reviewing may be no further in knowing whether it was a dive than the ref. As you point out, if 'contact or no contact' ISN'T the test (and I agree with you, it shouldn't be), then you really are in no man's land.

Indeed, since you can't replace the eye-on-the-ground, real-time perspective, you'd see incongruities abound as revisions taken may not necessarily be any more accurate than initial decisions. Ensuring a fair level of consistency is virtually impossible because, again, ultimately only the player knows if he's taken a dive. Some players seem to have perfected the art of an easy tumble such that it can be very difficult to know when it's genuine or when they've simply been knocked off balance, or are deliberately avoiding being fouled etc.. We know from experience how opinions can differ over this issue. I remember last season debating with a few posters on here an instance where Riera appeared - to me - to take a quite obvious tumble, others simply disagreed and thought there was sufficient contact such that it didn't amount to a dive. Shifting the point of interpretation from the ref and his assistants to a panel of reviewers wouldn't, on the whole, be of benefit to the game.

It's one issue that, IMO, needs to be left to the ref and his assistants. I prefer it the way it is - settled on the day with ref's performances assessed afterwards. Player's don't easily escape the wrath of the media or the fans when it comes to this issue anyway, so at least there is some accountability to be had. I would prefer it in this situation though - which is quite a clear-cut case - for Wenger to denounce Eduardo's actions, as well as Eboue's at Old Trafford for which there is certainly no reprieve. That's the way to uphold integrity in the game.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:50 am

SupitsJonF wrote:I think its weird that he got a ban. Yes, he shouldn't of dived. But isn't simulation a yellow card offense? Maybe the ruling is different in the penalty area, im not sure, but if the ref caught it in the game surely it would of been yellow? And now because the refs missed it his yellow card becomes a bit short of a red. Not sure how i feel about that, unless diving in the area is a red card offense.

It is a yellow card if the referee sees it.

If not, it opens the way for the FA/UEFA/FIFA to rule after the event.

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