Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:46 am

Something that has been on my mind recently, nothing long and depressing, but a quick thought as to how a team that was Champions in 1989/90 and challengers under King Kenny in 1990/91 could so rapidly go from right at the top to also-rans with the very occaisional runners-up spot.

I had a look for the team, I do remember most of them but sought a quick start to what could be a long thread starter. Interestingly once I'd googled a few of the names I found that the last Liverpool league title winners are ranked 15th in one of those Daily Mail online top 50s

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport....me.html

Bruce Grobbelaar - left for Southampton in 1994, one of our great keepers will forever have match-fixing allegations linked with his name.

David Burrows - decent full-back for us, became part of Souness' clear out in 1993

Steve Nicol - one of the few survivors of our last league title to make it into the mid-90s, leaving to become player-coach at Notts County

Glenn Hysen - soon cleared out by Souness in 1992

Alan Hansen - one of our greatest CBs retired shortly after Dalglish resigned as manager in the 90/91 campaign having made no appearances in that season

Barry Venison - missed much of the 89/90 title season through injury. Left to return to the north east in 1992

Gary Gillespie - sold to Celtic in 1991 by incoming Souness

Gary Ablett - another player Souness saw fit to sell across Stanley Park in January 1992

Steve McMahon - Dalglish's first signing didn't last long under Souness, 15 games into 91/92 he moved to Man City

Ray Houghton - sold to Aston Villa for £900k in July 1992, another important player left Anfield shortly after Souness took charge.

Ronnie Whelan - injury plaguing his last few years at Anfield, he left in 1994 to manage Southend

Jan Molby - made only 12 starts in our 89/90 title season, left in 1996 to become player-manager of Swansea City

John Barnes - scored 22 goals in our 89/90 title season, but injuries made him less effective and left in 1997 to rejoin Dalglish (at Newcastle)

Peter Beardsley - a key player under Dalglish, Souness sold him across Stanley Park for a mere £1m in 91/92

Ian Rush - this Anfield legend left Anfield only when his contract expired in June 1996. He scored 18 goals in 36 games in our 89/90 title season

Ronnie Rosenthal - scored 7 goals in the last 8 games of 89/90. Surprisingly he lasted until January 1994 when he moved to Tottenham

WHEN THE 89/90 TITLE WINNERS LEFT

90/91 Hansen (retired)
91/92 Beardsley, Ablett, Gillespie, McMahon
92/93 Houghton, Venison, Hysen
93/94 Rosenthal, Burrows
94/95 Grobbelaar, Whelan (left to manage Southend)
95/96 Nicol, Molby (both left for player-manager roles)
96/97 Rush
97/98 Barnes

A title winning squad disassembled, key players like Hansen (retired), Molby, Whelan and Barnes (hit with injury), Beardsley, Houghton and McMahon taken out by injury, retirement or sold. By the end of 93/94 HALF of our 90/91 title winning players had left. I say the key factor in our fall from the very top was King Kenny's resignation.

by **Nando26** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:45 am

Souness

by **heimdall** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:30 am

Souness sold out to whiskey nose, I'm convinced that no manager can be so incompetent as to tell all his best players without replacing them with similar quality. It was a huge mistake making him manager and was the start of the wilderness, after Souness, came Evans who I think was a good tactician but like Rafa poor on the man-managment, then Houllier who I think was doing well until the problems with the ticker, after that he was never the same and now we have Rafa who seems finally to be moving in the right direction.

In conclusion Souness destroyed the team and caused us 18 years of league drought wither through corruption or utter incompetence.

by **GYBS** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:34 am

Souness and the running of the club at the high level .

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:15 pm

What you have to remember is that the team left by Dalglish was very old.. Souness did some odd things, but the team he was left was in need of some major re-investment, an older more experinced manager may have pulled it off, Souness just didnt have the expereince imho

by **Reg** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:17 pm

Souness was coach material, not manager regardless of prior success at Rangers. The job called for a Rafa style thinker-strategist which Souness wasnt. He didnt replace quality with quality and he was too confrontational demanding immediate results.

He was a great midfield general but not a top quality, long term football manager. FORTUNATELY...... as Evans took over and into his reign, we were about to inherit 3 of the most gifted youngsters from the academy, Fowler, Owen and Macmanaman, closely followed by Gerrard and Carra that saved the club from obscurity and probably bankrupcy. Those lads recovered the disaster that was Souness.

by **tubby** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:42 pm

I don't think we cashed in on our previous success as well as we could have.

by **stmichael** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:50 pm

Souness was a poor manager, but he hardly ruined us. I do, however, think that our relative failure in the 90s was down to the board pursuing the idea that the club manager had to be somebody with long-term connections with the club and not realising that the success of this policy in the past because we had the good fortune of having talented individuals in place. Once we didn't, the policy became a millstone.

by **Reg** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

stmichael wrote:Souness was a poor manager, but he hardly ruined us. I do, however, think that our relative failure in the 90s was down to the board pursuing the idea that the club manager had to be somebody with long-term connections with the club and not realising that the success of this policy in the past because we had the good fortune of having talented individuals in place. Once we didn't, the policy became a millstone.

St Mike, Shankley and Paisley built solid teams and made individual changes over time, a gradual evolution. When Kenny took over, Bob guided him through his first year and the team continued to evolve along a recognisable pattern. Souness came in with a flurry of trumpets and made wholsale changes that both broke the continuity and confident changing room atmosphere. He also riled players, had favourites etc.. which again made people want to leave, even across the park. Fergiebottle has continued the Shankley/Paisley legacy of slow evolution and should he retire tomorrow and a Souness style managwr take over, he will most likely bring their success to a spectacular halt as well. You build a house piece by piece, prefabs like in america get blown away in a storm.

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:23 pm

Souness for single-handedly dismantling a team that was then still capable of winning leagues albeit with a few addidtions. Normally a manager comes in, identifies the core players of the team and keeps them while bringing in some replacements. He came in and flogged some of our best players. The f*cker hadn't a clue. The damage he done, however, could have been rectified within a few years, but Souness was only the beggining of a cancer at our club. Fact is, our board were arrogant and complacent thinking we'd an heir of being untouchable and that we'd the given right to start being successful based on the back of our history and reputation. LFC just refused to evolve as a club, and that's why we're waiting 19 years. I shudder to think where this club would be now if it weren't for Rafa Benitez.

by **redhayesy** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:12 pm

souness may have been to blame for alot in our faliure to win the title,with signing the wrong players-letting brilliant players leaving ie beardsley etc but for me i also look back at roy evans, nice people don't win races as they say! he was a prime example, a brilliant member of the famous 'boot room' but was not strong enough in his descisions when it mattered most for me.

he was too soft on many occasion in discipline,kicking backsides when needed etc. which contributed in our down fall during his time as manager-it's all about opinions an for me he made wrong descisions in the transfer market etc. the biggest feck up he made was buying ince! that was the final straw for me.

i was at so many games during his time to know i wasn't on my own in many of my views, the team lacked quality,passion an overall consistancy to maintain any sort of challenge year after year.

yes we were fecking great going foward,creating chances etc but our killer instinct was evident for everyone to see an oppo teams knew it as we lacked quality at the back,also when we lost the ball in midfield we didn't have the hunger to win it back,maybe too many players took their place for granted i don't know, it's never been our way -when a player over the years didn't play well for a couple of games no more they were replaced or knew they had quality players breathing down their necks to get into the side,the threat of that was usally enough to kick them up the backside.

the 90's for me was a period of time that expectations were never quite met due to certain formations,players & attitude which cost us dearly.

by **spion** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:59 am

Souness sold a title winning team & bought rubbish to replace them. Our youth setup has been underfunded because the first team takes most of the money chasing the other teams in the prem. When you fall behind it costs to make up for lost time.

by **Owzat** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:27 pm

Souness was too keen to replace title winning players with rubbish, too many years in the SPL which is as poor grounding for Premiership management as Ince got before he flopped at rovers.

Evans did a good job IMO, finished 3rd twice and 4th twice with one of those 4th places level on points with 2nd. I don't believe he had title winning in him, but then so far noone has since King Kenny and maybe had we stuck with Roy then the arrival of Owen and Gerrard might have been enough as Carra 'arrived' as a top CB. But instead we went with.........................

Houllier who arguably started the demise of our academy and local kids coming through by signing plenty of foreign kids who were pants. Is it a coincidence that Owen (mid-90s) and Gerrard (late-90s) all were in the pipeline and it's been pretty much blocked ever since? He did sign Hyypia and one or two other names that deserve credit, and you do wonder if Roy would have, but his signings were very much hit and miss.

Rafa has continued to bring in foreign kids and so stifle the local talent which is a shame. Do we talk about Spearing, Kelly etc as real prospects or simply to have some young English kids to talk about? Maybe we missed our chance and now we've sold Alonso who knows if we will sustain our apparent momentum. I doubt we can count on twelve points off Man Utd and Chelsea this season, as we lost only two games last season you could say we'd do well not to lose more.

by **metalhead** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:30 pm

Souness is one, the other reason is our inability to catch the likes of Manchester United in the commercial and business areas of the game.

by **stmichael** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:35 pm

I look at his reign now and actually feel a bit sorry for him the way things turnd out. He wanted to win for us more than anybody and wasnt helped with the new cash boom in the game at the time. Football changed overnight and he was one of the 'old school' style managers and probably couldnt handle the fact not every player had his desire for winning which in turn led to rows behind the scenes especially with the older players in the squad. Barnes Rush et al.

Selling Peter Beardsley for a third of what we paid for Dean Saunders was madness though.

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