Liverpool FC Forum

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:51 pm

It's a war we will never win . Just ask the russians.

by **GYBS** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:51 pm

War can never be won - there will always be taliban there and it will get even worse during the winter months when they hid in the mountains - the afghans/taliban/al queda are master of the terrain there and its only through great guts and intelligence from the guysout there that means we are getting less losses .

We arent equiped well enough out there - its only during the last 12 months there and iraq that we are getting equipment that the yanks have had for years and years .

Pay - well the armed forces in the lower ranks are massively under paid-the young lads are on pennies and makes me laugh when you consider an armed forces chaplin gets well over 60 grand a year . Unfortunatley we cant strike like the fireman or other civil servants and every time we get a pay rise it is always offset by other things going up - food/accomdation tax etc .

The armed forces are massively over stretched at the moment beyond belief and its very hard on some people who are spending 9 months a year on deployments .

As for after injury care this has massively increased for the better over the last couple of years but these are funded by charity and work done there is by troops and others helping out .

The armed forces overall has a bad light with the people as witnessed by demos at homecoming parades etc .

by **Number 9** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:52 pm

aCe' wrote:its a tricky one that.... important to know that taliban and alqaeda are two different things... sure Taleban are fcked in the head and everyone wants them out but then again they arent the only fcked up political regime in the world... you have countries like Zimbabwe and Sudan where things that are just as bad happen, except not many seem to talk about it as much...,
The importance of Afghanistan in geographic terms (same with Iraq) made it imperative that the US and its allies did something to stop taliban and alqaeda before the whole things escalated even further...

Was it wrong to go into Afghanistan in the first place ? no...
Is the way the US and allies are going about the war wrong ? yes imo..
Its a war that CAN be won.. infact i'd say its being won atm but the price being paid is way too high (in every sense) and im sure theres better ways to go about it ..

Good points mate!

The only thing I dont agree with is"theres better ways to go about it"

The only way to stop it is to kill them all but that is counter productive.We are talking about men that think if they die in combat they go to paradise...if an uncle dies his nephews see him a martyr and want to be like him..so they do what he done!

You cant eliminate them..simple!

The only way forward is dialogue..to talk.

It happened here all be it on a tiny scale compared to what happens in Afganistan...the British government and IRA fought for years,no one would ever win!
Only when they stopped shooting and bombing and sat down and took eachothers views on board did things become understood!
they compromised!Im not saying Im happy with certain things but the fact that the other side has had to swallow bitter pills numbs that fact.

I think the biggest mistake that we are making is not negotiating,theres only so long ya can go gung ho then you have to take into account that the loss and cost is too much

by **dawson99** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:55 pm

War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:57 pm

The invasion of Afghanistan had nothing to do with saving the people of Afghanistan. There are far more evil regimes around the world, mainly in Africa, who are committing far greater atrocities against their own people. So saying the invasion was to help the Afghanistan people was pure propaganda.

Afghanistan is one of the strategic gates to the Middle East and Asia. Miles and miles of uninhabited land and a country that has no real rule means that any organised occupying forces can pretty much set up as they like. Having a base in Afghanistan is an excellent weapon for America and gives them great military control over the whole area and also allows them to influence oil distribution in the Middle East and thus the world. Having a base in Afghanistan makes America a real threat to the likes of Iran.

On top of this, invading Afghanistan was a way for Bush to wage war on Iraq, one of the major players in the oil game and also a country that had constantly defied America. But importantly it was also a way to appease the American people after September 11th.

Blair stood side by side with America for political reasons, I’m sure deep down inside he knew that the reasons for the invasions were morally wrong but he thought he was doing the best thing for Britain in the long run, which he was if you only look at it from a political and economic point of view. But at the end of the day he has to live with the fact that thousands and thousands of people have died thinking that the right thing was being done when in fact it was all just dirty politics.

It was a shambles from the beginning and now it is just a full-blown disaster. It is near impossible to eradicate the Taliban in Afghanistan. They are an unseen enemy in a confused and disorganised country.

Bush and Blair basically knew they were invading countries that they had no chance of controlling 100% or bringing democracy to. They also knew they would never have to pull out of either country and were happy to leave a PR disaster for whoever does.

People keep saying that they were not happy with the reasons for invading both countries but are happy we did. Well the whole thing was built on lies and immorality and that has resulted in thousands of people dead from all sides, 2 countries in complete disarray and no end in sight.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:04 pm

When the Taliban arrived in the village 10 months ago and drove the police out, local people rejoiced, said Mohammad Rasul, a toothless elderly farmer who keeps a few cows and chickens in a neatly tended orchard of pomegranate trees, figs and grape vines.

Although his own son was killed by a Taliban roadside bomb five years ago, Rasul said the fighters earned their welcome in the village by treating people with respect.

"We were happy (after the Taliban arrived). The Taliban never bothered us," he said.

full article

by **dawson99** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:05 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:When the Taliban arrived in the village 10 months ago and drove the police out, local people rejoiced, said Mohammad Rasul, a toothless elderly farmer who keeps a few cows and chickens in a neatly tended orchard of pomegranate trees, figs and grape vines.

Although his own son was killed by a Taliban roadside bomb five years ago, Rasul said the fighters earned their welcome in the village by treating people with respect.

"We were happy (after the Taliban arrived). The Taliban never bothered us," he said.

full article

yeah, im pretty sure there is propaganda on both sides mate

by **GYBS** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:06 pm

What is never reported is all the good stuff being done by the guys out there - fresh running water to villages , schools being rebuilt , hospitals cleaned and rebuilt and food and medicine going to people that used to be rationed by the taliban - most of this stuff is done when the troops get time off .

by **Number 9** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:10 pm

Cool Hand Luke wrote:The invasion of Afghanistan had nothing to do with saving the people of Afghanistan. There are far more evil regimes around the world, mainly in Africa, who are committing far greater atrocities against their own people. So saying the invasion was to help the Afghanistan people was pure propaganda.

Afghanistan is one of the strategic gates to the Middle East and Asia. Miles and miles of uninhabited land and a country that has no real rule means that any organised occupying forces can pretty much set up as they like. Having a base in Afghanistan is an excellent weapon for America and gives them great military control over the whole area and also allows them to influence oil distribution in the Middle East and thus the world. Having a base in Afghanistan makes America a real threat to the likes of Iran.

On top of this, invading Afghanistan was a way for Bush to wage war on Iraq, one of the major players in the oil game and also a country that had constantly defied America. But importantly it was also a way to appease the American people after September 11th.

Blair stood side by side with America for political reasons, I’m sure deep down inside he knew that the reasons for the invasions were morally wrong but he thought he was doing the best thing for Britain in the long run, which he was if you only look at it from a political and economic point of view. But at the end of the day he has to live with the fact that thousands and thousands of people have died thinking that the right thing was being done when in fact it was all just dirty politics.

It was a shambles from the beginning and now it is just a full-blown disaster. It is near impossible to eradicate the Taliban in Afghanistan. They are an unseen enemy in a confused and disorganised country.

Bush and Blair basically knew they were invading countries that they had no chance of controlling 100% or bringing democracy to. They also knew they would never have to pull out of either country and were happy to leave a PR disaster for whoever does.

People keep saying that they were not happy with the reasons for invading both countries but are happy we did. Well the whole thing was built on lies and immorality and that has resulted in thousands of people dead from all sides, 2 countries in complete disarray and no end in sight.

Dont agree with it all but good post!!

I dont see how seeing Afganistan as a gateway to the middle east and asia allows them to distribute oil?
We still get most of our oil off Russia..if it does not come directly from Russia it comes from breakaway countries formerly of the Soviet Union....ask Abromovich,he owns them all and their dogs practically!

I also dont think that anyone(even Bush) would have the audacity to compromise his relations with a whole continent for oil..I think the oil thing is a way out for someone that cant be bothered to think and would rather choose to go with the most obvious of all conspiracy theories!

I dont think it was about oil..I think it was about what is right..maybe I just have too much faith in fellow human beings though?

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:10 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:When the Taliban arrived in the village 10 months ago and drove the police out, local people rejoiced, said Mohammad Rasul, a toothless elderly farmer who keeps a few cows and chickens in a neatly tended orchard of pomegranate trees, figs and grape vines.

Although his own son was killed by a Taliban roadside bomb five years ago, Rasul said the fighters earned their welcome in the village by treating people with respect.

"We were happy (after the Taliban arrived). The Taliban never bothered us," he said.

full article

Wonder what mrs rasul had to say ? Feck all probably cos the taliban cut here tongue out for asking mr rasul if he wanted egg and chips for his tea.

by **Number 9** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:12 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:When the Taliban arrived in the village 10 months ago and drove the police out, local people rejoiced, said Mohammad Rasul, a toothless elderly farmer who keeps a few cows and chickens in a neatly tended orchard of pomegranate trees, figs and grape vines.

Although his own son was killed by a Taliban roadside bomb five years ago, Rasul said the fighters earned their welcome in the village by treating people with respect.

"We were happy (after the Taliban arrived). The Taliban never bothered us," he said.

full article

And you are studying law........? :laugh:

by **GYBS** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:12 pm

The war was started because Bush wanted revenge for 9/11 and wanted to get rid of the AlQueda and Taliban - Its a war that will never be won .

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:13 pm

Number 9 wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:When the Taliban arrived in the village 10 months ago and drove the police out, local people rejoiced, said Mohammad Rasul, a toothless elderly farmer who keeps a few cows and chickens in a neatly tended orchard of pomegranate trees, figs and grape vines.

Although his own son was killed by a Taliban roadside bomb five years ago, Rasul said the fighters earned their welcome in the village by treating people with respect.

"We were happy (after the Taliban arrived). The Taliban never bothered us," he said.

full article

And you are studying law........?

what do you know about education?

by **GYBS** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:18 pm

Article is pure progaganda and to be taken with a pinch of salt - trust me the vast majority of afghans want the taliban gone

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:21 pm

im sure they do. as everyone else as MH has already stated. the article is simply saying that they are the lesser of 2 evils. is it true that should the taliban be ousted, the police will gain control once again or....?

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