Liverpool FC Forum

by **maguskwt** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:24 am

You know what... I have to say this... and I don't want to ruin any existing threads and their discussions so I've opened a new thread.

Most of the time I'm not in aggreance with posters like ace, heimdall, legbarnes, their opinions and their take on the manager. I believe that they do not try to understand benitez better enough. But I have to say I don't agree with their recent bans at all. I've always been proud to be a LFC fan and when we lost the tie to Chelsea in the Champions League I was even prouder. You know why? Because I didn't hear any stupid excuses. All I heard was "we must admit it, chelsea was the better team, but we gave them a fight, and we are proud of our team and the players". Now that is the spirit I truly admire.

Now the contentious issue here is the penalty that the mancs received against spurs. I've looked through the replays and even though it WAS contentious, the referee wasn't far off with awarding the penalty. I truly believed Gomes pushed the ball away when I first saw the incident and cried foul like any other. But replays show otherwise. Carrick nicked the ball before he fell over and Gomes didn't touch the ball. If anyone else can prove me otherwise I'll be happy to look at it and change my opinion. Now I'm not denying it is a contentious penalty and helped the mancs get into the game. But our very own Stevie G won similar penalties like that. Were we crying foul of the ref? NO. Now let's just say it was a no-penalty and the mancs benefitted from it. The score was still 2-1 and they could still have tightened their defence and gone on to win or at least draw. We have to admit spurs was terrible in the second half and totally forgot how to defend. Can we argue that they deserve something? Not at all. To suggest that we cannot win the title because of this controversial decision is not on. I don't like the mancs as much as you but Howard Webb's performance was not as bad as some other refs in some of the games this season.

I know that it is a long shot now but I still believe we have a chance to win the league. I just wish that our fellow fans and forum members pull themselves together and be united. Getting banned because some members expressed their believe is truly not on...

Now this thread might be locked, and I might be banned, but I don't care... I just have to say this... you mods know my track record, I disagree with BigMick sometimes, I disagree with other posters sometimes but I do not incite anything...

by **Octsky** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:00 am

well i did saw the replay. it was not a penalty. but we did put ourselves into this situation. if we have won a couple of games we will supposed to, the referee can give the whole united team a b1ow job and we weren't care less. but i still believe there's a chance for us. the team have done us proud nonetheless.

by **bigmick** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:16 am

I haven't seen the penalty incident or indeed any of it. We've had a good friend over from Australia for a few days as her Dad died in Christchurch on Tuesday. We went out Saturday night, low key night out, Wagamama's for noodles, an hour in the Casino so you can do your b0ll0cks and a Joe Baxi home, you know the kind of thing. I got up this morning and logged on to see the scores, the forum was kicking off and I had no urges to get involved either way to tell the truth. I'm not sure I still do, but feck it I'll stick me oar in anyway.

It's long been my contention though that there are two sets of rules on the forum. If you are a pro Rafa, "keep believing" type of fan there are certain guidelines as to how you must behave. If you are or have been anti Rafa and have a tendency to fear the worst/occasionally not believe, the rules and guidelines are completely different. I don't make a big thing out of my "contention", because I've been a mod myself and I know it's not an easy job. The last thing they need in every dispute is some thinks he knows it all c... sticking his oar in where it's not wanted. As such, when I see what I percieve to be injustice I tend to just move on and not comment.

I'll do the same here. It's the way of things, an arguement between two bunches of people, one group have "anti" tendancies, one group don't. Three of one group get banned, no prizes for guessing etc.

Anyways, we move on.

by **Owzat** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:07 am

I have seen the penalty incident, this was the first thread I entered so I haven't seen the "kicking off" on here. There are way too many antagonistic and aggressive comments from posters, sometimes having pops or digs at other users for their stance, posting style or just simply because they think they're funny when they're not. I've said a few times that having a match day thread section would be good to keep them all in one place and so some members could have their access taken away if they kick off. It is during and after the match that people's emotions are running highest, one of the reasons I come on the morning after when I've had some sleep and time to reflect on the match and other results. But some people are just idiots and will wind up, annoy and argue with others. What they hope to gain I will never know, perhaps they think that it makes them look good. I think a few on here could do with a week or two away. But then cue the alias syndrome, perhaps better just to ban them from certain sections so they have time to cool off and wait for their section bans to expire. That way they can prove they've cooled off and can post sociably by posting in say general chat. Any not doing so may well be posting under pseudonyms

As for the "penalty", Gomes touched the ball and then caught the striker. In my book that isn't a penalty, it could be seen as being the turning point but spudz shouldn't have conceded five in 20 odd minutes and that was down to failings mostly on the right side of their defence which was virtually non-existent. They pushed too hard for a third goal, they threw away a good start. Is our title challenge gone? I say it's hard for us from here, we now need them to score no more than NINE points from five games while picking up 12 ourselves. We might manage four wins, but the only teams I can see beating the mancs are probably Citeh and the goners.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:21 am

maguskwt no disrespect but they blatently wind people up, if Ace is a Liverpool fan then I am an evertonian, his posts stink of wind up merchant masquerading as a Liverpool fan on this forum.

Legbarnes talks out of his @rse, and Heimdall is the same as the other two, they dont have different opinions they are clueless and like to cause controversy all the time.

They arnt happy unless they are causing trouble.

This forum doesnt need people like them.

by **Owzat** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:48 am

Ciggy wrote:Legbarnes talks out of his @rse, and Heimdall is the same as the other two, they dont have different opinions they are clueless and like to cause controversy all the time.

I think it was about time some of those who argue a lot took a walk of shame, those two love to dish it out but can't take it and are two of the worst I've ever seen on forums at "playing the victim"

by **devaney** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:52 am

Ciggy wrote:maguskwt no disrespect but they blatently wind people up, if Ace is a Liverpool fan then I am an evertonian, his posts stink of wind up merchant masquerading as a Liverpool fan on this forum.

Legbarnes talks out of his @rse, and Heimdall is the same as the other two, they dont have different opinions they are clueless and like to cause controversy all the time.

They arnt happy unless they are causing trouble.

This forum doesnt need people like them.

I agree Ciggy and they typify the sort of member that spoils the forum for the real supporters!

by **bigmick** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:56 am

Ciggy wrote:This forum doesnt need people like them.

That's just it though Lynds, I think the forum is at its very best precisely WHEN it has a variance of views. The fella Ace who got banned, I've read his post about six times now and I can't for the life of me see why it has to warrant the action which was taken. I can see quite clearly why it would wind people up, I can obviously see why many people get annoyed when they read, but at the end of the day he's voicing a legitimate opinion.

Was it wise to go onto a thread which had been started to bemoan the fact (I think it's a fact and always have) that man Utd get preferential treatment from refs? Probably not. Should he have expected some flak? Probably yes.

Essentially though, he was saying it would be kidding ourselves to conclude that the reason we won't win the title (if indeed we don't) is because the refs conspired against us. As I say, probably not the wisest time to come out with that (which is why like Owzat I stay out of all emotional discussions these days) but it's not THAT controversial. Even if it is, even if everybody disagrees with him, I don't buy into this idea then that it should be a free for all against him or any other poster.

He also said that the best team always wins the league. That's as old as the hills that one, and broadly I agree with him. They aren't the best team at the moment (I think we are) but when they won fifteen games on the bounce or whatever the feck it was, they were then and over the course of the season, if they win it they will claim they have been.

I don't know, it just seems a shame to me that one side of the debate constantly gets on the wrong side of cards. Ultimately, if there's nobody to argue with the forum will cease to be interesting to anybody.

by **devaney** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:00 am

As for the United penalty I don't think Gomez touched the ball and I have watched the replays from several angles many many times. Doesn't matter if I am right or wrong. What it does show is the ref took one hell of a chance with his decision. All the Setanta garbage about the ball changing direction was probably as much down to Carrick nicking it just as much as Gomez touching it but I couldn't be certain with the benefit of replays and slow motion so how the fk can the ref give the penalty? United at Old Trafford that's how!

by **Sabre** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:20 am

Has somebody died Magus?

Sometimes when you (the forum) talk about the bans and cards it's as if the banned people are sent to a concentration camp never to be returned. And it's not the case, they're simply allowed not to post and in this after match incidents, it's normally for a short while. And then allowed back. Nobody dies really, Magus.

Magus, every ban and card has a history of spats behind, and the mods are in better position than you and me to know it. The mods do this for free and the least we can do is not to question every decission. You read isolated incidents, they read all the complains, all the threads, and they track the users. And that's not fun. Judging their decissions analysing an isolated incident is not fair, nor explains their decissions.

I don't think it's fair to assess that they have been banned thinking it was not a penalty. They were banned after many pages and when they were talking about liars and setting records right, and making public PMs.

And those users have a record. Remember the thread of LegBarnes asking cards for Lando the other day? that was just a public one, one of the dozens of complains and asking for cards the mods privately receive. Nor you nor me know the details. Nor you nor me are moderators. The bloody mods are not paid for the job, they rarely get a "thanks" for it, at least could we stop questioning their job every time?

As for Mick's opinion, I don't understand it. I don't think there are two sets of rules for antis and pros, and when I looked at the cards both sides have I can't confirm your pattern. Staunchiest pros like Lando have 4 cards, I have one (for using 3 words of a PM publicly you see, but as I say every card has an history Mick and the mods had been asked repeteadly to card me), Number9 had four, Ciggy had one, Emerald has one. Out of these some people have been banned too. So you move on, but you don't move on Mick because before you "move on" you tell them publicly they're biased. Class that.

Everyone of us could tell the mods whether they're biased or not, as everyone of us could give our opinion. I could defend the opposite of what you're saying about the moderators, as everyone of us can find decissions to back our opinion when taken isolatedly. And believe me I could make a case out of my complains. But the truth is that I'd feel shame of doing that publicly. I know it's not fair. It's not on. Let them do their stuff, and when we don't like it we always have other forums.

For once, I think we should leave them doing their fúcking job, and assume they'll make mistakes, and assume sometimes they'll put posters on the fridge (antis and pros) when the situation is unbearable. You know perfectly it doesn't take much more than apology and a chilling down to come back to posting within a few days. So let's not make a drama out of this.

As for the penalty, Magus, I'll talk when I'm a bit less angry, tomorrow or the next day. I'm controlling my blood pressure these days and I can't talk about the penalty right now.

by **bigmick** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:21 am

maguskwt wrote:you mods know my track record, I disagree with BigMick sometimes

I love this line. The subtext is "look I'm alright really, I even disagree with that c..." :laugh:

BTW not meant as a starter for a row Magnus, just made me laugh that's all.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:33 am

We need members who contribute in a positive way . By that i don't mean pro rafa positive , i mean if your going to critisize do it constructively and back up your arguements . You don't find that hard do you mick . You can back your arguements up and your well respected for it and rightly so .

THIS THOUGH IS NOTHING BUT A WIND UP AND TOTALLY UNWARRANTED ON A LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB FORUM .This is not an open fans forum or a world footy forum . This is our forum ,you know us the LFC fans and we and it should be respected . Or you get the boot simple as .

by **bigmick** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:40 am

Sabre you keep going on about the mods being asked to card you, who by? I've never reported a post to a mod in my life, ask them if you don't believe me. I've been called everything on here, I've never asked for anyone to be carded, I've never hit the report button. Not once, ever. I don't know whether you are insinuating it's me who has done the "asking for the cards" but you've mentioned it three or four times now in direct responses to my posts. I'm not offended by the insinuation or anything, but just in terms of accuracy I thought it was best I cleared it up.

There are many times when people have been giving it to me with both barrels on here. Not calling me "happy clappy" or saying I'm "blindly devoted to Rafa" or that I wear "rose tinted spectacles" (the "insults" which the other side of the debate often throw up as examples of wrongdoing) but openly, blatently calling me a c... I got called a w@nker on here in my absense the other week, even when I'd stopped posting. I got ambushed on afternoon (night over there) by three posters simultaneously, called allsorts. I didn't report anyone to any mods, I didn't ask for anyone to be carded. I'm no hero, I simply agree with you that moids should be allowed to do their job. Don't talk to me about "class" though, and then start sticking in "feckings" when you are obviously referring to me later in the post. Totally unnecessary.

I'm not having a pop at the mods, far from it. Ultimately, if the thing is descending into a nonsense then they have to do something about it, I understand that. People are hardly going to listen to a mod asking them to calm down, so the only option open is often to card and ban people. My beef is though, that it's the same side of the argument every time which gets the cards and the bans. You mention Lando and his cards, even Lando himself I shouldn't think would dispute that he's warranted most of them. You could say the same thing for Barry who's been banned more times than he's had Babychams. You might make the argument (I'm not saying you are BTW) that you should be able to call whoever you want a c... whenever you want and that therefore they shouldn't be banned, and at least there's an argument. As it is though, with the forum rules as they are I wouldn't think either of them could seriously dispute that most if not all of their cards have been deserved. Bam deserved his last week, once again I'm fairly sure he wouldn't dispute it.

Yes people sometimes need to calm down, but both sides of any heated argument need to calm down sometimes, not just one. I'm more concerned that if people are unable to express an opinion without either being banned, called a c... or told to feck off, then the whole thing becomes pointless.

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:48 am

For my part in it all of this my argument had nothing to do with football nothing at all. I was disgusted with that pm that got sent to another member on here an i said so. Other people found it ok. well in my eyes it was not ok, An i said so.

I was even more disgusted when the pm got made public, out of order imo. Then to be called a liar an a bully by certain members because i thought the pm was offencive, well there you go. If that pm would of been sent to anyone i would of found it offensive,

Then i got accused of being a liar by not replying to a certain member by pm that the matter was closed as far as i was concerned , Still nothing to do with football by the way.

As far as Aces ban goes i dont know what that is for. He made a post i an a few others commented but thats the norm on here people disagree, it was nothing as far as i can see over the top.

I know i argue an moan on here sometimes, but i am not a bully an last nights shennanigans had nothing to do with disagreeing over football , it became personel

by **Sabre** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:56 am

bigmick wrote:Sabre you keep going on about the mods being asked to card you, who by? I've never reported a post to a mod in my life, ask them if you don't believe me.

Mick, I don't know who they are exactly, because the mod who's supposed to be biased to me won't tell me. That is, he's supposed to be my friend, but the fúcker keeps the privacy of the people who report me.

I have suspicions, of course, because some posters have told me privately this forum would be much better without me, but I cannot know for sure it's just them or more people.

But I can assure you I wouldn't be PMing you to know how you're doing if I thought you were constantly reporting my posts. Not that I don't believe you, no. I never thought such a thing in the first place.

We could go poster by poster analysing the cards, and we could agree Lando sometimes got cards that were warranted. We could ask why Judge was carded one month ago and has no card now. We could ask why Emerald received a card ages ago, and he still has it. We really could find inconsistencies in the mods if we tried a bit. It's easy when you only have to take isolated incidents. But that's not fair.

And I told you the class that, sarcastically. Because I think that if something bad can be told about a moderator, is to say they have two sets of rules for the posters on here. I certainly thought that was having a pop at them. Unwillingly perhaps, but that was unfair.

Anyhow, no problems with you. Nor with Magus, who's a poster I always liked (and he sometimes agrees and disagrees with me

).

Look my point is simple. Not always I like the moderation here. But that's normal, as we all have a view about how this site must be moderated. Look at you, look at Igor, both excellent posters, both with different opinions about how the moderation should be. But we trusted the mods to do a job, they're not paid, so I think we should criticise them less.

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