Liverpool FC Forum

by **loopyliverpool** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:44 pm

The team is set up defensively and this translates into negative football. We have been better away this season cos teams have to take the game to us, which suits Rafa's tactics. At home teams invariably go defensive on us and we struggle to break them down. Like all fans I get excited with the old adrenaline pumping round my veins but objectively we play dull football. Bar the Newcastle game and possibly the Man U game we have been difficult to watch yet again this season.

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:54 pm

loopyliverpool wrote:The team is set up defensively and this translates into negative football. We have been better away this season cos teams have to take the game to us, which suits Rafa's tactics. At home teams invariably go defensive on us and we struggle to break them down. Like all fans I get excited with the old adrenaline pumping round my veins but objectively we play dull football. Bar the Newcastle game and possibly the Man U game we have been difficult to watch yet again this season.

The team is made in his image
His selection, his tactics, his formations
Liverpool are probably (?) THE most predictable team in the country due to Rafa.
You can see what they are trying to do every game.
You can see he is not a fan of creativity
You can set your watch by the substitutions and those who will subbed and brought on
The opposition only has to look at the team sheet to see how they are going to play against us and get something from the game
I have watched LFC since the late sixties and I cannot remember a more frustrating, boring, ineffective style in all those years.

by **loopyliverpool** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:10 pm

I know man. Thing is he doesn't seem capable of being able to spot decent players (just decent) either. As soon as I saw the likes of Dossena, Lucas, Kuyt, Reira, Arbeloa, Babel, U'Gog, El Zar etc. etc. I thought these players are not of the standard required to make us Champions. You cannot escape the fact that they are not good enough. Regarding one of our better players, Alonso, he wanted to flog him at the start of the season!! I am just bewildered at where Rafa has taken us and indeed where he is to take us. Ive had enough of this relative mediocrity.

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:17 pm

loopyliverpool wrote:I know man. Thing is he doesn't seem capable of being able to spot decent players (just decent) either. As soon as I saw the likes of Dossena, Lucas, Kuyt, Reira, Arbeloa, Babel, U'Gog, El Zar etc. etc. I thought these players are not of the standard required to make us Champions. You cannot escape the fact that they are not good enough. Regarding one of our better players, Alonso, he wanted to flog him at the start of the season!! I am just bewildered at where Rafa has taken us and indeed where he is to take us. Ive had enough of this relative mediocrity.

This "relative mediocrity" doesnt come cheap either
Im sure someone has the spent/recouped list there but seriously, I can only think of three outstanding buys out of all the players brought in

by **loopyliverpool** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:23 pm

I like Reina, Skertel, Agger, Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun and Torres (obviously). The rest you can put on the transfer list as far as I am concerned!

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:39 pm

loopyliverpool wrote:I like Reina, Skertel, Agger, Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun and Torres (obviously). The rest you can put on the transfer list as far as I am concerned!
Reina, Alonso and Torres for me
The rest on your list...maybe
But the others...

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:44 pm

Sir Roger wrote:
loopyliverpool wrote:I like Reina, Skertel, Agger, Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun and Torres (obviously). The rest you can put on the transfer list as far as I am concerned!
Reina, Alonso and Torres for me
The rest on your list...maybe
But the others...

Laptop went off its head sorry

I would agree with Reina, Alonso and Torres
The rest maybe?
The others...
Nar

by **Scottbot** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:46 pm

Obviously we have never been mistaken for the mancs or Arsenal under Benitez but there have been spells in his reign where we have played good attacking football. We played some very attractive football with Torres and Gerrard really clicking into gear last season and again during the FA Cup season the football was entertaining for the mid to latter part of the season. The irony of it is that this season has probably been our most pragmatic in terms of the quality of football in that we've been in a title race for the 1st time under Rafa without really playing well. Unlike previous seasons, there has been no 8-10 game run (albeit when were already out of it) where we have looked like world beaters.

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:49 pm

Scottbot wrote:Obviously we have never been mistaken for the mancs or Arsenal under Benitez but there have been spells in his reign where we have played good attacking football. We played some very attractive football with Torres and Gerrard really clicking into gear last season and again during the FA Cup season the football was entertaining for the mid to latter part of the season. The irony of it is that this season has probably been our most pragmatic in terms of the quality of football in that we've been in a title race for the 1st time under Rafa without really playing well. Unlike previous seasons, there has been no 8-10 game run (albeit when were already out of it) where we have looked like world beaters.

Agreed
But if I remember rightly there were times last season when the baffler dropped Torres thereby stopping consistency and stability?

by **loopyliverpool** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:50 pm

Sir Roger wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
loopyliverpool wrote:I like Reina, Skertel, Agger, Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun and Torres (obviously). The rest you can put on the transfer list as far as I am concerned!
Reina, Alonso and Torres for me
The rest on your list...maybe
But the others...

Laptop went off its head sorry

I would agree with Reina, Alonso and Torres
The rest maybe?
The others...
Nar

Just to clarify, obviously talking about players Rafa has brought in not Carra and Gerrard, that goes without saying really.

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:52 pm

loopyliverpool wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
loopyliverpool wrote:I like Reina, Skertel, Agger, Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun and Torres (obviously). The rest you can put on the transfer list as far as I am concerned!
Reina, Alonso and Torres for me
The rest on your list...maybe
But the others...

Laptop went off its head sorry

I would agree with Reina, Alonso and Torres
The rest maybe?
The others...
Nar

Just to clarify, obviously talking about players Rafa has brought in not Carra and Gerrard, that goes without saying really.

Of course
Glad you said it
:;):

by **Alex G.** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:53 pm

Very interesting article from The Times after the Boro Game....

We've done it again.

The side that splutters to a home draw with Manchester City one day, then goes out and comfortably beats an in form Real Madrid on their own turf. Welcome to the wonderful and majestic world of Rafael Benitez and Liverpool Football Club.

It defies logic that a side incapable of beating Stoke and Wigan on their own turf in recent weeks, can travel to the Bernabeu and beat Real Madrid without having to really break sweat; we made it look easy. That's football.

For me, I've always believed that Rafael Benitez is too clever and tactical for his own good. In Europe, against the better sides on the continent, it works. He's up against a side of quality, and a manager that wants to play football. It's a game of chess and tactics are massively important for European competition. It's not just a case of "go out and attack them" and hope the best teams win. Do that and you'll be exposed and punished.

You can't afford to go to Real Madrid, Barcelona and Inter Milan and attack them without regard. Yet we've been to all three of those places in the past three seasons and beat them all. We must be doing something right.

But why can we not do it domestically?

I've thought for years that Benitez pays the lesser teams far too much respect. So while it pays to approach a game like Real Madrid away with a military like plan, it doesn't seem to work when going to the likes of Stoke and Wigan. They are set up to defend and stifle our attacking options, just as we were set up to envoke the same restrictions on the Real Madrid side last night.

Benitez tries to play chess with the likes of Steve Bruce, when they just not good enough or tactically minded enough to make it worth while. They are the teams we should just be going out and attacking, with less regard for military movements and tactical plays. Attack them and the better side will win the vast majority of the time. That's the criticism of the manager I had after the Wigan game last month; it's that approach that needs to change for me if we are to win the league.

If we could play the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona every week, we'd already be Champions.

Or are we doing it domestically? Are we dismissing the progress we've made domestically on the basis that we're not nailed for the league title this season, when in fact we're getting better each season, but having the bar continually raised by the likes of Man United putting together winning runs like they have in recent months?

The likes of Ranieri, Ferguson and Wenger spent years building the foundations for their cluba, so much so that they are now able to add top quality players to those foundations in search of success. Mourinho walked into Chelsea to take over a side that finished 2nd last season, and given an open cheque book to deliver the goods. Ferguson is able to go out and spend the £30m's on Berbatov and Rooney, as the foundations of his side had been laid years previously.

Benitez is just coming to the end of the foundation building process for me, yet is expected to deliver the title or else. We all become frustrated with disappointing results, but sometimes we need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture and what we're actually trying to achieve, and the circumstances around that; myself included.

Time and time again we're underestimated on the European front. Written off as the outsiders of the 4 English sides in the betting every year, and dismissed as a lucky cup side by the nation's media and rival fans. Yet we're reached 3 semi finals in 4 years, twice qualifying for the final and winning it once. This year we're yet again in a really strong position to reach the quarter finals, despite having to prepare for the game amidst a backdrop of scandalous uncertainty around the future of our manager.

A man that came to a club struggling to make the top 4 each season to qualify for the Champions League, has achieved what I have listed above, and as Joe Cole said last night, making us the team that nobody wants to play.

So from being in a similar position Aston Villa find themselves in right now, in hoping to make the top 4, we're are one of the most feared teams in Europe with the best record in the competition of anyone since the arrival of Benitez to the club. Yet the cowboy owners of our club, and some sections of the fan base, seem to think that isn't good enough. Reality checks needed.

We are all disappointed with the recent results in the league, me included. I was furious after the Wigan game, and justifiably so. I still stand by my criticisms after that game, and the decisions made that night do reflect why we've faded instead of kicking on once sitting top of the league at the turn of the year. But, with all the behind the scenes chaos, the fact the manager has been able to function and continue to keep us up there in the league is a miracle in itself.

How many sides have become champions with the internal politics of the club in a bigger mess than Gary Neville's face? None.

Stability is key; and the current financial markets are about the only thing less stable than our club at the minute.

The mere suggestion that we were about to lose our manager when sat 2nd in the league and playing Real Madrid in the European Cup is beyond belief. Or maybe it's not when you look at Parry, Hicks and Gillett sat in the drivers seat of our club; all fighting for the steering wheel with one foot each on the pedals. Nobody has any idea where we're going or what the other is about to do.

Please, all of you, get out of our club and leave the best manager we've had in decades get on with his job.

Paul Jones

by **Big Niall** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:10 pm

He is like the euro. Good to have when in europe but no use to you in england

by **LegBarnes** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:48 pm

Big Niall wrote:do you think liverpool play good football? the type you would enjoy watching if you were a neutral.

I remember the 1988 team being a joy to watch. It is hard to admit but manure and arsenal play a more open game than we do.

some think that just because roy evans team (surely the last one to play good football) wasn't a great team that the two are mutually exclusive i.e. that you can either play attractive football or be successful.

rafa's valentia team played good football, I don't understand why we don't play that inter changing, free flowing game under rafa.

I remeber it mate it what got me hooked on liverpool barnes, beardsley, rush all linking up ripping teams to shreads those was the days.

Now we lucky to see a nice one , two pass linking up play every few games.

Players lost trust it manager it plan to see they thinking to much all the time and look like they feel the pressure we are playing with fear , very unluck any liverpool side I remember.

Liverpool feared no one every one feared us that was liverpool now teams feel they can get result with us and that is very sad for the club.

Get out of my club rafa and let someone in who can show the players they have to fear no one. :buttrock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdOUS5tQ3Qw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzGouuyt2Cc&feature=related

If i was rafa I sit down babel and say to him model ya self on him lad if you become half the player you do well at this club.

by **Effes** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:22 am

LegBarnes wrote:If i was rafa I sit down babel and say to him **model ya self on him lad if you become half the player you do well at this club.

** Listen lad, have you got a twin brother? Could I check your passport please?

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