Liverpool FC Forum

by **NiftyNeil** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:07 pm

Pennant was one of three players expected to leave Anfield on deadline day. After Voronin and Finnan's exits, Pennant was also expected follow them out of the club to either Blackburn or Stoke. It was reported that a £4M deal to Blackburn fell through. I also read that we had accepted a £5M offer from Stoke accepted but personal terms were not agreed (Pennant wanted £50K per week). We're now left with a dilemma, what do we do with the lad? It's rumoured that Rafa has threatened to let him rot in the reserves for pricing himself out of moves, but is this the best move?
Personally, I think Rafa should get right behind Pennant and work on getting the best out of him. He's currently our only experienced player capably of playing wide on the right. Okay, others can play there (Gerrard, Kuyt, Bennayoun, Babel), but it's not their natural position and they tend drift infield too much. When he's the only person in the squad that can do that job at the level required, why (or even how) can Rafa not utilise him to the teams advantage.
I know a lot of people will read this and say he's not good enough, and that will be a fair shout, but let's first look at the facts. Pennant was signed in 2006. The first half of the 06-07 season, Pennant struggled to adapt - he was also accused of thinking he had "made it" by simply signing for Liverpool yet he wasn't making the impact we expected. He was arrogantly saying that he was performing well for the team when us fans were thinking otherwise. In the second half of that season, Pennant's fortunes began to change and his performances started to get better. He seemed to get better and better after his cracker against Chelsea at Anfield. The climax of that season saw Pennant being the best player on the pitch (IMHO) in the Champions League Final. The 07-08 season saw Pennant pick up where he left off. He had a storming first few games. So much so, that most were scratching their heads that he wasn't included in the England squad for the first international break. After the break, things didn't go so great for Pennant. He was sent off against Porto, and his performances seemed to drop off. It was then discovered that he had been playing with a stress fracture in his leg (as good a reason as any for not performing well). By the time he was fit again for the first team, we had changed our formation. We had switched from 4-4-2 to 4-2-3-1. The new system seemed to work because of our lack of wide men, the team played through the middle in a more direct approach. Pennant, being a wide man, didn't excel in this formation and Kuyt was preferred.
I thought Pennant would be sold through the summer and a new right winger would have been bought. Neither happened. Now that we are left with Pennant and I think we should be playing him more often. He gives us a great option on the right when played in a 4-4-2. With Riera on the left, the team would have genuine width, which would be needed when playing the defensive teams who come to Anfield to shut up shop. We have the luxury of having enough players to dramatically alter the way we play and the routes of passage.

4-2-3-1 4-4-2
Reina Reina
Arbeloa Carra Agger Aurelio Arbeloa Carra Agger Aurelio
Masch Alonso Pennant Gerrard Alonso* Riera
Kuyt Gerrard Babel Torres Keane
Torres

*I'd always play Alonso in the 4-4-2 formation as this would be against more defensive teams nullifying the need for Masch's defensive qualities and utilising Alonso's ability to spread the ball left and right.

That's my opinion anyway. Pennant plays well in a 4-4-2 and we should play him more and not let him rot in the reserves. Will it happen? Probably not, but Rafa would be a fool to ignore Nifty.

by **stmichael** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:11 pm

Started a thread on this exact subject the other day.

It's ridiculous that he can't even get on the bench when were playing 4-4-2 with no wingers. The treatment of both him and Finnan has been cisgraceful imo.

by **GYBS** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:14 pm

Yet whenever pennant plays since he got injured he has been toilet for us ? finnan was a great servant but getting old and needed replacing .

by **NiftyNeil** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:17 pm

GYBS wrote:Yet whenever pennant plays since he got injured he has been toilet for us ? finnan was a great servant but getting old and needed replacing .

Like I said, when he came back from injury, hes not played in a 4-4-2 formation. Rafa set the team up to play narrower and more direct, this doesn't suit Pennant.

by **GYBS** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:24 pm

yet it suited torres gerrard masher babel and kuyt - so whats better ? formation to suit pennant or suit the other guys ?

by **andy_g** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:27 pm

he should play a few games in my opinion and see what happens with him and riera giving us some genuine width. of course though, a combination of rafa's stubbornness and pennants attitude, he'll probably be in a major sulk about being on the transfer list, will not allow this to happen.

by **NiftyNeil** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:33 pm

GYBS wrote:yet it suited torres gerrard masher babel and kuyt - so whats better ? formation to suit pennant or suit the other guys ?

It's not about individuals, it's about the team. If playing narrow works, then fine. If width is needed (and we've been crying out for it the last few games) then bring in Pennant.

by **Sabre** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:34 pm

Excellent thread opener.

And I agree Nifty Neil in his idea of not letting Pennant rot in the reserves. IF Pennant trains hard in Melwood, which to be honest is something I don't know, I think that he can be useful in more than one afternoon to come off the bench. Pennant hasn't a presence in the box as I would like, he has not the instict to be in the proper place. Pennant doesn't put as many balls in the box as I'd like neither, but Pennant has proven useful to me to break some games that otherwise they'd be stuck. In games in which Alonso or Gerrard are too marked, I've seen Pennant running with ball giving "oxygen" to our start of the play, allowing our midfield players advancing their positions.

That's Kuyt doesn't when we have the ball. Both because he doesn't run with the ball with the same skill, and because he'll often make a back pass or a "dull" pass (by this I mean a pass that doesn't end up intercepted, but doesn't help to a fluid game, a matter of decissions).

Perhaps Rafa has decided that the youth system exists for something, and for that "coming off the bench in ugly matches" El Zhar can do a job. But I'd disagree about not using Pennant if he's earning a salary. It's not Pennant's fault that he wants to stay under this contract fighting for a place and not wanting go to Stoke. Pennant 18 moths ago was even on the fringe of going to the national squad, he even was dissapointed for not being summoned. I cannot blame an ambitious mind not wanting to go to Stoke.

by **GYBS** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:36 pm

NiftyNeil wrote:It's not about individuals, it's about the team. If playing narrow works, then fine. If width is needed (and we've been crying out for it the last few games) then bring in Pennant.

but last year we did have width from babel and kuyt in the 4-2-3-1 yeah pennant can provide width but when gets the ball does nothing with him it? he had a good 6 months spell in the club leading up to the CL final 07 but apart from that nothing .

by **NiftyNeil** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:41 pm

GYBS wrote:
NiftyNeil wrote:It's not about individuals, it's about the team. If playing narrow works, then fine. If width is needed (and we've been crying out for it the last few games) then bring in Pennant.

but last year we did have width from babel and kuyt in the 4-2-3-1 yeah pennant can provide width but when gets the ball does nothing with him it? he had a good 6 months spell in the club leading up to the CL final 07 but apart from that nothing .

Neither are wingers and subsequently abandon their positions too readily to come infield. We then lose the option of spreading it wide. Look at our games so far this season. Babel can operate out wide, at least he can get the ball past the full back and to the byline. The only times Kuyt can do this is when he wins the ball off a full back.

by **stmichael** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:42 pm

Pennant has a problem with some supporters in that they generalise about his attitude, merely due to what's happened in the past before he came to this club. As far as I'm aware, his attitude since he's been here has been nothing short of exemplary.

I mean if he was "motivated solely by money" he wouldn't be one of the hardest trainers at the club, and he wouldn't be asking to play in the reserves when he was left out of the first team squad. Some people don't like him, fair enough. Some people think he's not good enough. Again, fair enough, but I don't see what he's done wrong. I questioned his hunger but if he wants to stay and fight for his place then good for him.

by **GYBS** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:44 pm

never had a problem with his attitude at liverpool - its his performances on the pitch - can think of only two that spring to mind where he played very well - aganst chelsea two seasons ago when him and kuyt scored and in the cl final over than that it was lots of poor crosses and ots of cutting hiside himself .

by **bunglemark2** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:34 pm

GYBS wrote:Yet whenever pennant plays since he got injured he has been toilet for us ? finnan was a great servant but getting old and needed replacing .

If at 32 you need replacing as a RB, I don't know what the world is coming to....Finnan to my mind is one of the best RB's seen in the Premiership in recent years. The fact that Carra echoes just that on lfc.tv today is THE perfect example of the esteem in which his teammates regarded him. I've seen him loads of times in Lansdowne Road for his country, perhaps the only player not to put a foot wrong in every game, and coming to the rescue at the death of one game in particular. I think if you read Paco's comments about a guaranteed "7" from him every game, you'll realise how others in the game see and value him....all obviously except our glorious leader

As for Pennant, on a point of principle, I would make him play. I would tell hime exactly how much he is letting down the squad by sulking like he is right now. Reverse psychology, Rafa, not stamping your foot down like you seem to have done in the past. Wonder if that's why you've fallen out with so many players and management.

I think he's wrong not to view a move to Stoke as positive. If you look at Reading for example, a number of their players have gone on to bigger things, some have yet to go to bigger things, but it will happen. Honest, I think he has a neck like a jockey's swiss-roll for comments like this....

by **andy_g** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:01 pm

come on though, you've been doing ok and playing fairly regularly for one of the biggest clubs in europe and with an outside chance of a few england caps, but suddenly you find yourself on the bench because a failed striker is playing your position, and then you're not even in the squad anymore. you need to get your career back on track, and fast... an offer comes in to play for stoke city, a newly promoted team who, despite having salif diao, will almost certainly go back down again at the end of this season. are you really going to want to go?

by **bunglemark2** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:07 pm

andy_g wrote:come on though, you've been doing ok and playing fairly regularly for one of the biggest clubs in europe and with an outside chance of a few england caps, but suddenly you find yourself on the bench because a failed striker is playing your position, and then you're not even in the squad anymore. you need to get your career back on track, and fast... an offer comes in to play for stoke city, a newly promoted team who, despite having salif diao, will almost certainly go back down again at the end of this season. are you really going to want to go?

Some valid observations mate....but....(there's always a but)...is he going to get anywhere near England if he's playing for the Reserves ? All due respect to the reserves, but it's a "proving" ground for those who have ambitions to be first teamers; for injured first teamers to make their way back into the first team....
It's not the place Capello will go to see who can turn England's miserable form around now, is it ?
With Stoke, he could be on MOTD every week. He can do the biz on the pitch and raise his profile that way. Hell, like Voronin, if Stoke were to meet even 75% of his wage demands, we're still better off than if he languishes in the Reserves. And it means more cash to pay a committed signing...

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Jermaine pennant - Should rafa let him rot?

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