Liverpool FC Forum

Fo Dne wrote:The fact is, not one of you (with the exception of probably mick) have the slightest idea of what you're talking about and lack so much understanding of the game its unreal. The funny thing is, you sit there thinking you know it all, and you really don't, you have no idea how little you actually do know because none of you can ever be bothered to understand the very thing you spend your lives talking about.

Now you're embarrassing yourself.  You're a sunday league footballer Stu, so stop acting 'the big I am', it impresses no one and makes you look like a tw@t.

I think after this thread the general concensus is that you're the one who doesn't have the slightest idea what you're talking about, and if you've got a UEFA pro-licence then you must have got it in a Christmas cracker mate.

Barton better than Lampard
Good one though

Fo Dne wrote:

john craig wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:

john craig wrote:Stu mate behave yourself!!

You aren't going to convince a single person on here that Barton is better than Lampard, that's an outrageous claim.

I've never been Lampard's biggest fan, I think that his all round game has major deficiencies, and I don't think he's in the same league as players like Gerrard or Fabregas for example, but he has scored a lot of goals for Chelsea in the Premiership and Europe for several years now.

As a kid perhaps Barton may have had more raw talent than Lampard, or comparing them at age 18/19 maybe Barton was a quicker developer than Lampard (I don't know if this was true or not), but in the professional game there is no comparison really.  Barton has done nothing and is destined to do nothing.  Lampard has 2 league titles, lots of International caps and will probably get a chance to play for Inter Milan.

So ok then. By that reasoning, because Lampards acheived that, that makes Phil Neville a world beater. He's won everything, he's got over 40 England caps, he's played for two of the top clubs in the country.

You can't use a teams success to say how good a player is. Its . Its like saying Nicky Butt's better than Gerrard because of what he won at United, or Andy Cole was better than Fowler and Owen was because he won more. Or they were all better than Shearer because he didn't win much.

No-one denies Lampard can score goals, but that alone doesn't make you a great player. He very often floats through games and offers nothing yet pops up with a goal. Its very useful for Chelsea, he does what he's good at in a team and lets Essien and Makelele do the hard work but to compare him, as an individual to alot of midfielders he'd come of worse. There are easy 10 centre mids better in the league, there are probably another 5 or 6 where there's not alot in it.

People are blinded by his goals, quite simply watch England. You'll see how good he is for them. He's completely out of his depth everytime he pulls on the shirt weather he gets his goal or not.

Stop twisting what I've said mate

Nicky Butt and Phil Neville did not play that significant a role in all the trophies United won, but Frank Lampard made a huge contribution to the two championships Chelsea won.  That's the difference.  Lampard didn't ride on the coat tails of Chelsea's success, he was one of the major reasons for their success.

And for the record I don't believe he is world class, but he has found a system at Chelsea that suits him and players around him that compliment him perfectly, getting the best out of him.  I believe he will be a flop in Italy when that move eventually happens, just as he has been a flop for England.  But he is still a better player than Barton by some distance.

How can you say they never played major roles when they played over 60 games between them? You simply used an arguement which I think is completely invalid when talking about individual players, you clearly stated what he's won etc.

Lampard is found wanting in ALOT of area's physically he's fit, but average strength, and very limited pace and agility, much like Barton, his passing is good and vision is good, again, like Barton. His shooting is better and finishing is better although Joey has an excellent shot and isn't exactly poor when given a chance, the thing is though Barton can tackle and has drive in his game, he can carry a ball and show aggression. Lampard doesn't. He never drives a team and often goes missing against better sides popping up with his world class penalty or deflected goal. Compare Lampard to Scholes for gods sake, they play in the same position, while Lampard's scored more goals I've no doubt look at the overall contribution of the players, theres not even a contest. Scholes is twice the player Frank Lampard will ever be or ever has been.

Lampard shoots on sight, its not the best way to play the game and doesn't show great ability. You've even admitted yourself he'll be a flop and will perform like he does for england. The fact is though people can't see past the "big four" and the rest rule. If you play outside that big four you can't possibly be any good. WRONG!

Joey Barton is a very very good player. Like I've said a million times, instead of sitting there telling me how he is and how wrong I am try actually watching him as an individual. Infact, no don't bother, you already know don't you because you've seen him play properly loads of times and watched the lad play so many times....



Watch what he does, watch what the others around him do. While watching, compare whether he spots the pass that Gerrard would have, compare what Gerrard would have done in the same situation, compare the person recieving the ball to Torres or any other Liverpool player. Compare everything, think about why he doesn't do something, why he does, does he take the player he's passing to's strengths into consideration etc etc etc.

Barton is better tactically than Gerrard as a pure central midfielder, he influences games in the middle of the pitch more than what Steven does in terms of knowing when to press, when to offer, when to play the short pass. Technically, there isn't a great deal of difference in the two, Gerrard pips it just. Physically, Gerrard's a monster. Barton isn't anywhere near Gerrard in this area... and in terms of mental attitude Gerrard is alot better off the pitch.

The difference is nowhere near as big as people make out. But obviously, no-one on here would have that, how could anyone be any good that doesn't play for a top four side? Its rediculous to think that isn't it...

The problem with Joey is there is no talkin to him. He's got a screw lose. Had he not had a screw lose he'd be playing for a top four side without a doubt. He's alot better than Carrick, Hargreaves, Lucas, Flamini, Gilberto and some of the other overated players at these teams. I actually think if Newcastle can keep him and Owen on the pitch and fit aswell as Guthrie, a fit Damien Duff and Given then they may suprise a couple of people this season.

I've said this for years about Gareth Barry aswell. Another player coming into the lime light all of a sudden. A player who again my opinion of hasn't changed at all and now people are talking about him being a great player etc. Craig Gardner at Villa also looks a decent prospect, yet I hear people bang on about Agbonlahor who's quite simply but with a bit of pace and acceleration.

I can't even be arsed anyway, the fact is, to many people on here listen the media and think they know it all, they listen to these "football writers" and some of these pathetic attempts at managers and think they know what they are talking about.

The fact is, not one of you (with the exception of probably mick) have the slightest idea of what you're talking about and lack so much understanding of the game its unreal. The funny thing is, you sit there thinking you know it all, and you really don't, you have no idea how little you actually do know because none of you can ever be bothered to understand the very thing you spend your lives talking about.

Igor Zidane wrote:Quote from the almighty.

The fact is, not one of you (with the exception of probably mick) have the slightest idea of what you're talking about and lack so much understanding of the game its unreal. The funny thing is, you sit there thinking you know it all, and you really don't, you have no idea how little you actually do know because none of you can ever be bothered to understand the very thing you spend your lives talking about.


Feckin outrageous comment.

You don't know who we are ,or what we've done in our past, i could be John aldridge for all you know , you've said some stupid stuff in the past stu , but that is feckin unreal . Who died and made you the master scout,tactition, fan ,coach , pundit and footballing guru all of a sudden . You know your onions mate , but your not by any means right ,all of the time .

We do have a right to an opinion ,we do have a right (believe it or not) to disagrree with you . Guess what , we do have a right to make our own minds up .

ConnO'var wrote:You know your stuff

After this thread I wouldn't even say that.

If you ask me he knows all

Pennant's the answer
Carragher's average
Barton's better than Lampard
Not convinced about Torres
We should sign Woodgate

...just a few of the gems I can remember

john craig wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:The fact is, not one of you (with the exception of probably mick) have the slightest idea of what you're talking about and lack so much understanding of the game its unreal. The funny thing is, you sit there thinking you know it all, and you really don't, you have no idea how little you actually do know because none of you can ever be bothered to understand the very thing you spend your lives talking about.

Now you're embarrassing yourself.  You're a sunday league footballer Stu, so stop acting 'the big I am', it impresses no one and makes you look like a tw@t.

I think after this thread the general concensus is that you're the one who doesn't have the slightest idea what you're talking about, and if you've got a UEFA pro-licence then you must have got it in a Christmas cracker mate.

Barton better than Lampard
Good one though

now can you understand why i gto mad at him also saying babel is sh.it where does he get off sunday league football gives him right to say that i played pro youth level can i be a full time football pundit. 

As for barton LMFAOROFLCOPTER

LFC2007 wrote:I's pointless trying to discuss football with someone who still fails to understand the concept of having an opinion.

The level of abuse/mocking/intolerance is unacceptable.

I have no problem in accepting he can sometimes have radically different opinions to others, but when trying to liberally disagree (i.e. manage carefully how you phrase a post), he flies off the handle, going into an arrogant rant.

You can only do so much to accomodate him before you have to draw a line.

If us 'average Joes' know so little, why not fuck off for good?

Exactly right mate!

To come on a forum with some of the most passionate fans around and as soon as someone disagrees tell them they are thick and know nothing about the game is bad enough!

But then to try and justify being so clever because you talk to a guy in charge of a boys team.
Then to claim you have done FA badges which is probably a lie.
Then to claim no one knows as much as him because they dont play sunday league football and are armchair fans.
Its just laughable!

ConnO'var wrote:Also disagree that Mascherano is not world class. He's probably among the top 3 defensive midfielders (in the truest sense of the role) plying their trade in world football at the moment and we're lucky to have him.


All this harping and definitions about the term "world class" is a bunch of boll0cks in my humble opinion. As I said, I believe in the complete package..... not just a series of measurable attributes. I'll refrain from exhorting my own opinion on what is considered "world class", but I'd like to share my thoughts on what it's not if I may. It's not outstanding skill, nor is it pace.... nor superb goal scoring track records either.

One of the best central defenders its ever been my pleasure to watch play is Franco Baresi. He was not blessed with blinding pace nor was he ever known for being strong in the tackle. He snuffed out attacks because he could read the game better than everyone and simply nipped the onset of most threats in the bud at the infancy of the attack simply by knowing what to do at the right time. The same is true of Sammer.

The complete package in a particular role is what makes a person world class. Once in a while geniuses arrive on stage to grace us with their presence... I speak of the Maradonas, Peles, Cruyffs, Beckenbauers and Zidanes. These are players that come around every 10-15 years or so and are beyond the moniker "world class"

ConnO'var wrote:

john craig wrote:

ConnO'var wrote:You know your stuff

After this thread I wouldn't even say that.

If you ask me he knows all

Pennant's the answer
Carragher's average
Barton's better than Lampard
Not convinced about Torres
We should sign Woodgate

...just a few of the gems I can remember

Nah mate..... Stu does know his stuff and as s@int pointed out, he does have valid points imo. It's just that he gets entrenched with some of his ideas and views and he just gets blinked and cannot accept someone else's view. He's a big boy and can defend himself so he doesn't need me or anyone else to speak for him.... but he has valid points..... For example,

1. From a pure ability standpoint, like s@int, I do agree that Barton is a more complete central midfielder than Lampard. But football is not all about ability.... it's about the complete package. And Barton lets himself down badly with his attitude, behaviour and ill discipline. As far as I'm concerned, he's p!ssed away all his potential purely because he's got no self control. Wasted talent and would not touch him with a barge pole. Too many chances have been wasted on him and IMO he will never learn and is a massive risk in ANY team. As such, Lampard is of more value to any team as compared to Barton. From a holistic standpoint, this makes him a better footballer.

2. Woodgate on ability is a brilliant defender. Is he worth it? Probably not given his track record with injuries. No point having a marvelous defender whose constantly on a sicknote. He'll do not much good for the defense from a treatment table. Not worth the risk.

3. Carra is not exactly a footballing genius on the ball. He can't compare with the pure centre backs around and would struggle to get into a world 22 selection based on pure ability. But the man is a colossus in defense simply because he's made effective use of the tools available to him. The same tools he's extremely skilled in and is abundantly gifted in utilising. Heart and superb ability to read the game. For me, these are attributes which would make him the 1st choice in ANY England set up regardless of Ferdinand's skill and Terry's aerial prowess. So, skill-wise, our Carra cannot compete with the Nestas, Cannavaros and Ferdinands of this world..... BUT he's a SUPERB defender and one I would choose to martial any defense.... end of.... IMO of course...

Where we disagree is fairly straightforward.... Pennant, he rates and I detest. I have no time or room for such a dumb player. I don't think he's fit to lace up for LFC either in terms of skill OR attitude. A ludicrously poor buy for us. The problem is that, I don't think Stu can tolerate being told he's wrong about a player... pride simply won't allow it and he'll dig his heels in even when proven wrong.

Also disagree that Mascherano is not world class. He's probably among the top 3 defensive midfielders (in the truest sense of the role) plying their trade in world football at the moment and we're lucky to have him.


All this harping and definitions about the term "world class" is a bunch of boll0cks in my humble opinion. As I said, I believe in the complete package..... not just a series of measurable attributes. I'll refrain from exhorting my own opinion on what is considered "world class", but I'd like to share my thoughts on what it's not if I may. It's not outstanding skill, nor is it pace.... nor superb goal scoring track records either.

One of the best central defenders its ever been my pleasure to watch play is Franco Baresi. He was not blessed with blinding pace nor was he ever known for being strong in the tackle. He snuffed out attacks because he could read the game better than everyone and simply nipped the onset of most threats in the bud at the infancy of the attack simply by knowing what to do at the right time. The same is true of Sammer.

The complete package in a particular role is what makes a person world class. Once in a while geniuses arrive on stage to grace us with their presence... I speak of the Maradonas, Peles, Cruyffs, Beckenbauers and Zidanes. These are players that come around every 10-15 years or so and are beyond the moniker "world class"