Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 20, 2008 10:20 am

We have just signed Degen and supposedly about to, or already signed Andrea Dossena. Do signings of this calibre (tbh I don't know if they are any good or not) really advance our cause, or just restrict the developement of our own young players? Where does this leave Insua for example?

A couple of seasons ago we had a few promising forwards, Le Tallec, Pongole and Mellor. Were they that much worse than Zenden and Voronin?

We are rumoured to be signing Barry , with Alonso now declaring he is staying, will that mean Lucas and Plessis taking a step back in the pecking order?

I understand that we need to improve the team and quality signings are definately necessary, but I do sometimes wonder if maybe one or two of our reserves could have been given a chance to step up rather than some of the poorer quality signings we have made.

Maybe none of our reserves are good enough, but if they are never given the chance to establish themselves will we ever know?

by **thegreedo** » Tue May 20, 2008 10:38 am

Have to say Saint I tend to agree with you on many fronts. Players don't seem to be allowed to develop yet we continue to acquire nameless additions to the squad who then have to settle all over again before eventually not making the grade. You sometimes wonder where the progression is going to come from. I hope I am proved totally wrong and these guys turn out to be world beaters but how many free transfers and unknown signings have we seen come and go without doing anything worthy of the red shirt.

Why are we not bringing on Nemeth, Plessis, Leto or any others from our successful reserve side? Ablett has done a great job this year but what of the development from the sides that won the youth cup two years running and the reserve league this year?

by **Dundalk** » Tue May 20, 2008 10:38 am

The days of young players breaking into the first team of the big teams are gone IMO especially attacking players. Who was the last player to break into the Chelsea, Man United or Liverpool teams. Arsenal are the obvious exception.

Money talks these days. I wonder if Gerrard was 17 or 18 now would he be given the chance? He would have a lot of talent to get past. Any of the best young talent going around nowadays the big boys just buy up ( Rooney, Walcott )

Im afraid the way forward at the moment is to buy the future rather than nurture it

by **112-1077774096** » Tue May 20, 2008 10:42 am

agree 100% saint.

i seem to remember quite recently (start of last season) raising a similar issue, too many signings are just not good enough, and we sign many youth players that we never hear of again as they are never given a chance. I suppose we are looking for that one gem to come through the ranks but you are right that signing lower level players limits the chances of potential quality coming through.

one thing i dread saint, and no doubt i will get shouted down for this, is there being no local hero in the team. since i started going in 1973 there has always been scousers in the team (apart from the final with no englishmen in the team but if i remember rightly aldo was there and macmahon on the bench, i may be wrong on this). but we have always had local heroes, i cant see one after gerrard and carra although we have a few years yet to bring that gem through if he exists

by **zardd** » Tue May 20, 2008 11:33 am

i believe rafa knows what he doing. By buying fullbacks (1 on a free, 1 around 8m if thats true) thats are playing at a high level to solve the problem area in our defence & not paying over the top to blow our budget (seriously do we even have one base on the current situation of the top management?) is a good deal. Our CBs are top class, its the fullbacks that are worrying.

I think Rafa may not want to use much youngster next season as next season would be very important for him as no one will want to see another league season like this year where we just faded off. If he rely much on youth and things got off badly, he will get all the blame from all angles.

Hopefully he could find great deals for both the left & right winger if he continue to use the 4-2-3-1 formation. That would surely excites people.

by **JoeTerp** » Tue May 20, 2008 1:35 pm

Not sure what exactly to think. On one hand I feel bad for Darby, who has done EVERYTHING that has been asked of him for the reserve team. He was consistent, solid in defense, decent in attack, a leader of the team and defense that didn't give up a goal for something like 4 months. The year Spearing was hurt HE captained the youth cup team to success when he was younger than most of the players on the team, and when Spearing came back the next season, he handed the armband over to the more emotional leader. Before he had a fading steve finnan and a pretty good Arbeloa in front of him with the option of Carra filling in in a pinch, so it wasn't looking good for him to make the breakthrough, but he certainly would have been in line for an odd carling cup appearance, with Degen coming in, I am afraid his only option can be to request to go on loan. He turns 20 in October so his time is running out, hopefully he can gain some 1st team experience at a league one club in the 08/09 campaign.

And for Insua, a player of his quality is not going to stand for two league games after the season has been decided each year. If we do bring in Dossena, I hope it is accompanied by the departure of both Aurelio and Riise, or else I can't see him playing in anything more than the Carling Cup

I think part of the influence is the pressure every single season to perform or be sacked that is put on managers. If you are in a pinch, and it costs you nothing anyways, wouldn't you at least want a player of experience filling in at right back instead of a kid if your job was on the line. The focus is too narrow. We need to asses how this massive loan exodus does this year to see how well that approach worked in giving the kids experience and making their case for a 1st team breakthrough stronger. I still can't tell which crop of players are rated higher at Melwood.

With the amount of kids in the reserves we should also have a team in the Pontin's holiday league just like Man City does. Playing against the likes of Preston North End Reserves and Tranmere Rovers reserves might not be the best way to practice attractive football but it could serve well to toughen up some of the young foreign lads that we are always bringing in.

by **Torres25** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:07 am

I can understand Degen coz of Finnans departure, 4 me Darby as reliable as he is just isnt good enough

Agree that id only be happy 2 c Dossena come in if both Aurielo & Riise left

personally id rather go 4 Chiellini or break the bank 4 Bale or Lahm

Again Spurs or spending shitloads, jesus they spend as much as us every season, thats without winning a trophy or CL, so god knows how much there gonna spend now theyve won the milk cup.........60+ maybe

One day all these young players there gettin r gonna gel & i can seriously c them overtakin us if we dont get r fingers out in the transfer market

by **Richj** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:16 am

Id put 20m in for Bale, He is quality and will get you 5-10 goals a season from left back, Only 18 as well.

by **Reinas No.1 Fan** » Wed May 21, 2008 12:11 pm

I wish that we could suddently produce the next worlds greatest left back, or a liverpool born youngster that will go on and help us win the prem with goalscoring like Torres. The problem lies in the fact that we are a top 4 club "challenging" for the premiership every season, we cant afford to blood young players in meaningless games because all of them are important (except later ones in the season maybe) Saying that, now that the premier league have kindly allowed us to select 7 bench warmers rather than just 5 it might give premier league managers a chance to select young players and play them if a game result is not in doubt for instance.

The only way we can get the youngsters any worthwhile experience is to send them on loan to other clubs, a lot of rafas promising youngsters disappeared on loan this season and our reserves still won the reserve league.

It is still possible that one of our reserve stars may appear on the bench several times next season, and maybe if we do get lucky we wont have to pay £26 mill for another top class goalscorer or winger.

by **Toffeehater** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:31 pm

Good thread saint , insua is deffo one for the future mate , i got a feeling we'll be seeing more of him next season . Lucas and plessis are still young and raw , pratically virgins to this game

and they are not ready to play week in and out , maybe some substitutes appearances and starts against lesser teams . All in all , these kids need a chance to prove themselves and they will get it , it may not be so much next season but maybe the season after next

by **Toffeehater** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:31 pm

Richj wrote:Id put 20m in for Bale, He is quality and will get you 5-10 goals a season from left back, Only 18 as well.

injury prone

by **Richj** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:58 pm

Toffeehater wrote:
Richj wrote:Id put 20m in for Bale, He is quality and will get you 5-10 goals a season from left back, Only 18 as well.

injury prone

Yeah this season he has been, He played most of the games for Saints the season before.

by **stmichael** » Wed May 21, 2008 4:02 pm

I think due to us having next to no money more players from the reserves and academy will get a go as Rafa will have to sell what he has to buy and since he'll have to flog two or three players to buy one he'll have to bolster the squad with what he has available.

by **flamingpoe** » Wed May 21, 2008 4:57 pm

but the whole point on that he has to sell to buy is why we aren't a premier leaugue team, these 2 americans, need to wisen up, buying to amazing players......torres & masch wont make a silk purse out of a leather bag!!
they need to be wiser with their money because all they need to foresee is if they keep going as they are they are going to make this very traditional football team and turn it into a pile of sh**, then they will never have the funds!
all they need to do is spend a decent amount of money this season for like what 3 15-20m players and then say no more spending for a while!!, then by all means they can stinge out with there money so what they need to do as i have said is buy 3 player at about the 15-20mil mark, then sure fire we will be there with the best, we can compete with them just about now, so buy 2 or 3 brilliant players and we will be above them so that we can win aload of shizzit and make evryone happy!!!

by **spion** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:24 pm

Fact is Insua, Nemeth, Anderson or any of the others will not get a look in next season. Fact is our bloated reserve team is full of players who will never play for the first team & dont have much chance of playing top flight football anywhere else. Our foundations are flawed & the infastructure is faultering because the management is too busy spending money on polyfiller for the first team & really hasnt got a long game planned. Benitez dosent expect to win the league any time soon & thinks he's getting the boot any time so his current tenure at Liverpool is just a jazzed up Cv! We as fans have to realise that the team we adore is no longer the team we want to see.

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