Liverpool FC Forum

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:43 pm

His speech would probably have made more of an impact earlier in the season after a few draws. He is just stating the obvious now in an attempt to let supporters know that he knows how they feel. Nothing wrong with his whinge (its good for you !) just poor timing I feel.

by **big al** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:37 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
big al wrote:Gerrad knows this, he has never been positive in anyway about Rafa he has never given him any credit and his body language says everything.

25.5.05

Granada interviewer: "So Steven sum how you came back from 3-0 down"

Steven Gerrard: "It's all down to this man." Gerrard points and then grabs Benitez.

Bit of credit there wouldn't you say?

thats easy for Gerrard he has just won a major trophy so hes elated. I have seen a mulitude of post match interveiws were gerrards body language has been negative towards Rafa. Gerrard blames Rafa. He was just being fickle onthat occasion sadly like so many supporters who post on this site. The same supporters who slaughtered rafa Were his best friends after the Milan match. Theres a lot of posters on this site who are 80 minute men. They leave on 80 minutes to get away before the traffic. The real fans stay to the very end, Not simply the fans of Liverpool but the Fans of Football, I love Liverpool FC but even if they did'nt exist I'd still love football. The glory hunters or the those that talk out there back sides wont understand that. I became a Liverpool fan at 5 years old, after they were beat by Arsenal in the FA cup final. Not because I love the underdog but because even then I could see the beauty of their football. I'm not a scouser ( I often wish I was ( because firstly I grew to love the football team and then I grew love the cityand the people, including the Toffees, who are just jealous and who all sit secretly cheering the reds on in europe and agaist the Mancs)

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:41 am

( because firstly I grew to love the football team and then I grew love the cityand the people, including the Toffees, who are just jealous and who all sit secretly cheering the reds on in europe and agaist the Mancs)

Your kidding right? The bitters would sell there nanna to get one up on the mighty reds.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:52 am

big al wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
big al wrote:Gerrad knows this, he has never been positive in anyway about Rafa he has never given him any credit and his body language says everything.

25.5.05

Granada interviewer: "So Steven sum how you came back from 3-0 down"

Steven Gerrard: "It's all down to this man." Gerrard points and then grabs Benitez.

Bit of credit there wouldn't you say?

thats easy for Gerrard he has just won a major trophy so hes elated. I have seen a mulitude of post match interveiws were gerrards body language has been negative towards Rafa. Gerrard blames Rafa. He was just being fickle onthat occasion sadly like so many supporters who post on this site. The same supporters who slaughtered rafa Were his best friends after the Milan match. Theres a lot of posters on this site who are 80 minute men. They leave on 80 minutes to get away before the traffic. The real fans stay to the very end, Not simply the fans of Liverpool but the Fans of Football, I love Liverpool FC but even if they did'nt exist I'd still love football. The glory hunters or the those that talk out there back sides wont understand that. I became a Liverpool fan at 5 years old, after they were beat by Arsenal in the FA cup final. Not because I love the underdog but because even then I could see the beauty of their football. I'm not a scouser ( I often wish I was ( because firstly I grew to love the football team and then I grew love the cityand the people, including the Toffees, who are just jealous and who all sit secretly cheering the reds on in europe and agaist the Mancs)

I slaughter Benitez as much as anyone. But in 2005, he's was a god in my eyes. As was Traore, Biscan and anybody else who helped us win the 2005 European Cup. I slaughter him now because he's bringing my club down. I blame the entire club from top to bottom, but the majority of that blame lies with Benitez. I think Gerrard is in a similar position. He thought like the rest of us that the European Cup was going to springboard us back to the top of world football and in particular English football. It hasn't happened and with all honesty doesn't look as if it will.

As for the Cup Final, 1950 or 1971

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:58 am

I blame the entire club from top to bottom, but the majority of that blame lies with Benitez.

Please, please, please let me call the authorities ! Its everyones fault but lets blame benitez ! Do you ever look back at what you post and think, for a minute, hang on, it wasnt rafas fault we ran out of sugar for the tea the lady was going to make? It wasnt rafas fault we ended up with hicks, it wasnt rafas fault the players missed sitters in front of the goal, the 28 chances we created. Get a grip.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:03 am

Kharhaz wrote:
I blame the entire club from top to bottom, but the majority of that blame lies with Benitez.

Please, please, please let me call the authorities ! Its everyones fault but lets blame benitez ! Do you ever look back at what you post and think, for a minute, hang on, it wasnt rafas fault we ran out of sugar for the tea the lady was going to make? It wasnt rafas fault we ended up with hicks, it wasnt rafas fault the players missed sitters in front of the goal, the 28 chances we created. Get a grip.

Do you ever think, it's Benitez who picks these players who can't score? Do you ever think if Benitez didn't win the European Cup in 05 he'd still be here now? Do you ever think that it's Benitez who brings the best players we have off against Reading? Do you ever think that if Benitez wasn't so stubborn he'd of walked away from Liverpool after the yanks sounded out Klinsman? Do you ever think that it was Benitez who ate all the sugar?

The blame falls on Benitez, whether you or anybody else likes it. The entire club has played it's part in this season failing, but Benitez has played the BIGGEST (that doesn't mean only) part. So he takes the MAJORITY (that doesn't mean all) of the blame. His tactics, formations, stubborness and overall management of the club has been found out this season.

by **LegBarnes** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:10 am

big al wrote:At the risk of sounding repetitive and sounding like a broken record. This statement is an example of why Stevie is not the right person to be captain. I think that Rafa did'nt want him and was prepared to let him go to Chelsea. It was Parry and Moores who realised the backlash if Gerrard would go and so rafa was forced to hold on to him. Rafa saw the money at the time. Gerrad knows this, he has never been positive in anyway about Rafa he has never given him any credit and his body language says everything. I think that there is definitely a clash of personalities. Gerrard has no intention whatsoever of leaving Liverpool but he sees that there is an opportunity to pour more pressure onto Rafa. At the same time Gerrard is not a good example of a captain. I intend to post a more indepth opinion of the captaincy issue later and to give examples of why Gerrard is not a good captain.

I love gerrard but dont get me wrong if gerrard wants to go let him no player is bigger then the club ever !

I also feel that while gerrard is in the team the team as a whole will never have its own personality gerrard leaving for 40 mil could be a good thing , could !

But this is all too early to speaking about this really we have many matchs to play yet and we need to back gerrard and the team untill end of season.

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:10 am

His stubbornness has always been there. But to put the MAJORITY of the blame on benitez is ridiculous. In all the big games, league games against the top 3, the players have let him down. He hasnt gone for rotation, or anything less than that, he has picked his best team, and for most of them games we have looked the better team, how can you put the blame on benitez for the players failing to score? Gerrard has been the biggest culprit of them all, his performances have been arsey at best, benitez like I have said before deserves the hassle he gets when he goes for daft formations but Gerrard has been played in his favoured position all season and hasnt looked anything like he did in previous seasons. Its not all down to benitez, its also down to the players.

by **LegBarnes** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:13 am

Kharhaz wrote:
I blame the entire club from top to bottom, but the majority of that blame lies with Benitez.

Please, please, please let me call the authorities ! Its everyones fault but lets blame benitez ! Do you ever look back at what you post and think, for a minute, hang on, it wasnt rafas fault we ran out of sugar for the tea the lady was going to make? It wasnt rafas fault we ended up with hicks, it wasnt rafas fault the players missed sitters in front of the goal, the 28 chances we created. Get a grip.

no reason we lost alot of games is most of time our team are gutless wonders in front of goal they just sh.it them selfs when they get a chance.

Arsenal and man u players get told how golden there ar.ses are every 5 secounds there egos are the size of my ball bags which are pretty big i might add !

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:21 am

Kharhaz wrote:His stubbornness has always been there. But to put the MAJORITY of the blame on benitez is ridiculous. In all the big games, league games against the top 3, the players have let him down. He hasnt gone for rotation, or anything less than that, he has picked his best team, and for most of them games we have looked the better team, how can you put the blame on benitez for the players failing to score? Gerrard has been the biggest culprit of them all, his performances have been arsey at best, benitez like I have said before deserves the hassle he gets when he goes for daft formations but Gerrard has been played in his favoured position all season and hasnt looked anything like he did in previous seasons. Its not all down to benitez, its also down to the players.

1) Who has said it's ALL down to Benitez?
2) Gerrard has banged in 15/16 goals this season, so he must of been doing something right.
3) Benitez picks his best team against the top 3? Arsenal at Anfield he picked an unfit Torres who had to come off at half time because he couldn't move. Chelsea away, he picked Kuyt with an inform Peter Crouch sat on the bench. Man United at home he picked Kewell. AGAIN, when the game before Babel had scored against Marsielle. So where against the top three has he played his best team? Even against Chelsea at the start of the season he had Alonso instead of Mascheranho.
4) How can I blame Benitez for players not socring? Yes how can I, oh I now how, because he can see if a player is having an off day. So why doesn't he change it, Crouch was obviously having one of those days where he couldn't of scored in a brothel never mind a football match (in reference to Barnsley) but no Benitez brings off the fella who was man of the match in Babel. Leaving the fella who's playing badly on

that's how I can blame him.

by **big al** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:30 am

Kharhaz I am always surprised by how open the toffee fans are with me when Im in Liverpool. They are very negative about Liverpool until you bring up other clubs and its a bit like that scene from the life of Brian. Yes we hate the :censored:

they done nothing for this city. Then you ask well if they were playing Arsenal in the fa cup who would you want to win. Well yes of course I'd want them to beat Arsenal, they're from here of course, but they still :censored:

. Well the if they were playing chelsea in the league cup who would you want to win. And its, well just because my uncle Joe supports them and they from here and Chelsea are really English :censored:

(I am constantly amazed an Irishman to here scousers call southern english, the english) but they still :censored:

themselves but I suppose Id want them to win. I always test the toffee fans in Liverpool out and although they say how much they hate LFC most of them still carry a begrudged pride in LFC because they're from Liverpool. Of course they hate the Mancs the most. Your right of course they hate LFC, and the LFC fans but its a friendly hatred, but then the feelings mutual.

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:38 am

1) Who has said it's ALL down to Benitez?

All the doubters, even you to an extent, your covering your argument bases, if we ask why have we failed this season your answer without a doubt would be Rafa Benitez

2) Gerrard has banged in 15/16 goals this season, so he must of been doing something right.

Lampard is also a top scoring midfielder at chelsea, but his general perfomance is mediocre.

3) Benitez picks his best team against the top 3? Arsenal at Anfield he picked an unfit Torres who had to come off at half time because he couldn't move. Chelsea away, he picked Kuyt with an inform Peter Crouch sat on the bench. Man United at home he picked Kewell. AGAIN, when the game before Babel had scored against Marsielle. So where against the top three has he played his best team? Even against Chelsea at the start of the season he had Alonso instead of Mascheranho.

Start of the season Kewell was wanted, fans opinion, Torres is (and still is) our best striker and Alonso was our best creative midfielder, whats your point?

4) How can I blame Benitez for players not socring? Yes how can I, oh I now how, because he can see if a player is having an off day. So why doesn't he change it, Crouch was obviously having one of those days where he couldn't of scored in a brothel never mind a football match (in reference to Barnsley) but no Benitez brings off the fella who was man of the match in Babel. Leaving the fella who's playing badly on that's how I can blame him.

Babel was playing well but didnt look like scoring, not the only game this season. Crouch has been called upon many of us to start games and also didnt look like scoring and didnt score in games when we thought he had his best chances.

Like I said, whatever rafa does, unless we win, its his fault when we lose. A ridiculous attitude if ever I heard one. If you think for a minute that one man can create so much negativity amongst professionals who regard this man as the reason they joined LFC in the first place, or indeed the mainstay players who have always been here at liverpool as the man who has improved them and is the man they want to stay here as liverpool manager as the man who is to blame for everything that has gone wrong this season. Then you are not looking at the bigger picture, you are simply looking for a scapegoat. Rafa is not it.

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:45 am

big al wrote:Kharhaz I am always surprised by how open the toffee fans are with me when Im in Liverpool. They are very negative about Liverpool until you bring up other clubs and its a bit like that scene from the life of Brian. Yes we hate the they done nothing for this city. Then you ask well if they were playing Arsenal in the fa cup who would you want to win. Well yes of course I'd want them to beat Arsenal, they're from here of course, but they still . Well the if they were playing chelsea in the league cup who would you want to win. And its, well just because my uncle Joe supports them and they from here and Chelsea are really English (I am constantly amazed an Irishman to here scousers call southern english, the english) but they still themselves but I suppose Id want them to win. I always test the toffee fans in Liverpool out and although they say how much they hate LFC most of them still carry a begrudged pride in LFC because they're from Liverpool. Of course they hate the Mancs the most. Your right of course they hate LFC, and the LFC fans but its a friendly hatred, but then the feelings mutual.

That is surprising, most evertons fans I meet are very bitter, they like nothing more than to see Liverpool lose, and they always, and I mean ALWAYS were there blue shirt whenever I see them ! and yes I do tell them it smells from the last time I see them !

by **LFC2007** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:52 am

The_Rock wrote:"You make your own luck, shape your own destiny. And now we soon have massive games at Manchester United and Arsenal, knowing we can't win the league.

"We are not bothered about whether we have an impact on the title race we're not in. But winning at both those places would send out a message for next season. That would lay down a marker that no-one would ignore."

Headline: Gerrard to stay at Liverpool and fight for title next season.

by **big al** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:23 am

I am far from a football buff, there are lots more people on this site who know more about Liverpool FC than I do. However I do know a little bit about football. both as a player and a coach. I am lucky to have a number of friends and associates who also know a lot about football and in particular top flight football. I have been lucky in the last few years. I made a mistake a few years back, by taking the wife over to Liverpool with me to watch a game. She has been smitten and as a result I no longer get anything for my birthday or Xmas or anniversary other than LFC dvd's books, autobiographies. One good thing is that I got LFC tv and a motorised satellite to watchthe games on (costs a fortune, about the price of a season ticket) LFC has be the best thing however. all the reserve games live, the old matches and the interveiws with ex players.

Some years ago and JBG might remember this, I posted several threads about the lack of leadership that the current Liverpool team had. That was under Houllier. At the time I mentioned how there was a lack of leadership on the pitch and I particularily reffered to a player of the Case, Smith or Souness ilk. For a long time Liverpool had a team of gentlemen who very rarely got involved with the ref, they did'nt need to as it was'nt really part of the game. Except of course for some rare occasions. The premiership changed all that. So please excuse me if this offends people but when the premiership was launched it brought into the English game a number of bad habbits. The foreign players not only brought better technique, better skills and more professional fitness regime. They brought diving, play acting and a particularily continental trait crowding the refferee. It was the crowding part that was very quickly adapted by a number of teams including Liverpool under Souness. That team harrangued and hassled refs up and down the country but mostly to no avail, sadly the manager had instiled in the players a competiveness that was far above their ability and there managers overall management skills. neverthe less for other teams this harranguing of refereees worked. At Man U players got away with murder along with the manager they had refs petrified of getting decisions wrong and as a result no penalties were awarded at Old Trafford for 10 years ( and there were plenty of legitimate shouts). Wengers Arsenal were quick to follow suit and Im sure you all have a multitude of players who you despised for there slabbering (to use a Belfast term). How many times did you watch Arsenal and Man U in the last decade angry at the mouth pieces who disputed every decision even when it was bloody obvious. In the early 2000's Chelsea's influx of Italian players generated a culture of mouth pieces there who crowd and harrangued the ref. (They have gotten away with murder this season, mugging us at Anfield is one of many examples) You see refs are human and as a result they can be swayed to give a 50 /50 decision in your favour if you moan enough. That means that if you have a team who constantly moan its easier for the ref just to give them the decision. Moaners do influence games, at the same time this moaning has two additional side effects it winds up your opponents who know the ref is being influenced and as a result they start to think eveything is going against them. If they miss a few easy chances they start to think its not going to be their day. In addition this moaning lifts your own fans, they get caught up in the moment and start to believe that the moaning is justified, they increase the volume, this lifts the players hey presto you get another edge on the opponents. This is vital over the smaller opposition it tends not to be so apparent when the big clubs meet and the ref is under scruitny of the TV cameras.

All that said my point is that we have no one except Mascherano who is a moan. If he played for Man U i guarantee we would all be calling him a dirty wee B****rd. I guess thats what evryone else will either think of him or will grow to think of him. I love the guy and believe he will be one of the greaest players ever to play for the club. My point is we don't have a manager who will wind up the p[layers by moaning and getting them riled into believing the worlds against them, or that they have a devine right to be given every 50/50. The premiership is not won by gentlemen who just kick each other, thats not allowed. The premiership is won by atheletes, pace, wingers and above all teams that believe its their devine rigth to win it. If that means rolling around, diving, harrassing the ref and linesmen, complaining, by leading by example. Gerrard is a wonderful player a true talent. But he aint no captain a captain isnt always your best player, he's just your leader. Englands failure to reach Euro 2008 is not due to tactics oor having less skillful players its down to not having a real captain when they needed one. A Terry Butcher or Mark Wright a Tony Adams figure who battled and spilled blood. Gerrard led by example, yes in Instanbul but that was as a player. It was Didi Hammann who really showed the way and with his German Mentality forced the team to dig in and get through to the end. We have lost too many games this year when what was required was a captain who was able to organise and shape his team to make them dig deeper or dig in. Rafa Will never be a manager who wears his heart on his sleeve, Gerrard is not strong enough as a person to do that. Stevie G is an introvert and struggles to motivate players. Its usually Carragher whose giving his team mates a boll**king. Thats a problem. I asked whats wrong with liverpool on this site last week and I''' tell my opinion for what its worth. . I said the same thing here 5 years ago, we need a leader on the pitch, we need a Roy Keanne.

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