Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:34 pm

Well J*o*n*D*o*e, I agree the whole idea that a discussion about Mancs hasn't place in LFC general discussion forum. You commented it, and I agreed.

As Refs England vs Europe was a football topic I'd like to discuss, I thought it might be a good idea to change the title, write a post about it and invite to you to give your opinions about why we seem to be better adapted for the European scene.

That way I avoided to open a new thread myself, and the especific discussion about the Mancs would come to an end.

At this point we can discuss about football, or keep talking about that boring scúm. I preffer the former because scúm is boring. Of course, if most of users keep talking about them, I'll move it, if another mod doesn't do it before, that is.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:36 pm

Refs do give more free kicks in the European competitions which tends to break up attacks and the speed of the game which may suit Liverpool for whatever reason. But overall, the reason we win more cups in Europe comes down to two things: 1- Superior preparation and tactics and 2- A greater desire to win. There's a heart and soul in Liverpool Football Club which I believe other clubs lack.

by **Sabre** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:45 pm

I agree point two, and I add a new one with the permission of Manhattan:

3.- Anfield.

A typical phrase in my country of the teams that face Liverpool is:

"2-0 is the least we can have to go to Anfield a bit comfortably"

Meaning Anfield is seen as a factor that counts a lot. That Pressure counts. And is one of my concerns for the future. Bigger stadium might not mean same pressure. Sometimes that security measures like putting the seats more separated make a difference in cold winter nights. It sounds stupid, but it does, I've suffered the change to a "new, better" stadium.

by **tithead** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:51 pm

It isn't the referee's fault.

There are many factors as to why we haven't been too successful in Europe. The main one being how we play in away games. We sit back to much and don't use our undoubted attacking talent like we do at home.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:53 pm

I agree point two, and I add a new one with the permission of Manhattan:

3.- Anfield.

A typical phrase in my country of the teams that face Liverpool is:

"2-0 is the least we can have to go to Anfield a bit comfortably"

Meaning Anfield is seen as a factor that counts a lot. That Pressure counts. And is one of my concerns for the future. Bigger stadium might not mean same pressure. Sometimes that security measures like putting the seats more separated make a difference in cold winter nights. It sounds stupid, but it does, I've suffered the change to a "new, better" stadium.

Agreed. Stadiums definately are a factor. At Anfield, teams can be intimidated. That gives us the edge.

by **red37** » Fri May 04, 2007 12:10 am

Sabre wrote:Meaning Anfield is seen as a factor that counts a lot. That Pressure counts. And is one of my concerns for the future. Bigger stadium might not mean same pressure. Sometimes that security measures like putting the seats more separated make a difference in cold winter nights. It sounds stupid, but it does, I've suffered the change to a "new, better" stadium.

This is a salient point that simply must be addressed in the design of the new stadium. We see it time after time with other clubs who have moved. I believe the new regime has indeed already identified the issue, hell they could hardly fail not to...but in the midst of all the construction debate and whether or not there will be a revised Kop Grandstand incorporated into the final plans or not, as the case maybe. It is vital, that within those submissions there is provision for the kind of acoustically generated 'atmosphere' Anfield is reknowned for. That is an engineering isssue. And if its allowed to stay just within the guidelines of (EU Emissions) As I understand it to be. I see no reason why that should not continue to be exploited. Its definately a factor anyhow.

As for Referee's who officiate at Anfield, and a few other major stadia throughout Europe. There is almost certainly scope for discussion over the level at which they can be 'swayed' by the home support. On the continent things have been addressed quite differently than here in the UK over the years. The other night i actually witnessed a Spanish Ref (Senor Gonzales) proceed to allow the game to flow - including several tasty challenges that otherwise could easily have been frowned upon on another night. That too is a step in the right direction.

Now if only some of these downtrodden 'articles' who also fall under a certain European legislature btw, could 'up' their own levels similarly to match the occasion....*no names* necessary at this point.

by **Santa** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:16 am

DCFC wrote:Manc forum is ripped

You just gotta love him!!

I loved that reply from "DJS" :laugh:

Priceless...I just can't stop laughing :laugh:

...so how good is Rafa? he predicted the finalist back in Feb, way before the last-16 games are played

http://home.skysports.com/list.as....+repeat

by **Bad Bob** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:23 am

Sabre wrote:Remember Drogba in Anfield. The Ref conceded many fouls in favour of Carraguer, as Drogba's contact wasn't legal. The Ref was Spaniard, and Anfield was happy with the decissions. Drogba in Spain would struggle more than other more skillful strikers, as his contact routine and movements would be very punnished (Ask Kovacevic, or Zigic, the masters of fouls against them).

It definitely cuts both ways though, mate, since Gonzalez wasn't letting Crouch get away with much either. In fact, Crouch often gets called for a lot of non-fouls when playing for us in Europe or when playing for England. He just looks like he's fouling every time he challenges for a header and the continental refs are quick to give the defender that call. I just hope that doesn't hurt us too much in the final.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri May 04, 2007 4:32 am

While referees,despite all rumours to the contrary, only human, they will obviously be influenced by crowds, managers , players and media to a greater or lesser extent. I think the main reason that most successful clubs such as Chelsea and the Mancs arn't winning CL's is the demands placed upon them in domestic competitions. Its noticable that Liverpool a far less successful club domestically have had much greater success in Europe because, apart from Houlliers triple winners its been the main/only focus of our season from an early stage.

The other factor which I feel is equally important is many of our rivals become bad team bullies. Arsenal, Chelsea and the Mancs know that they can make mistakes against teams and get away with it in our league, as the poor technical ability of their opponents prevents them from capitalising much of the time. In Europe there is no such luxury, get your tactics wrong or make an error in defence and its likely to be fatal. How many times do we see Arsenal and the Mancs go a goal or a couple of goals down and still win in the prem. Do that in Europe and your in trouble (unless your names Liverpool

) the opposition more often than not shut up shop and are tactically and technically good enough to close out the game.

Liverpool on the other hand rarely seem to recover when behind in league games so know the value of restricting errors to a minimum. While this may not prove as successful in the prem it pays dividends in Europe. I think we have only been a goal down on aggregate twice in three years in Europe, Benfica (when we went out) and Chelsea (Not including MILAN as that was a one off game, and Olympiacos which was a group game)

The Arsenal side of a couple of years ago, and this years Mancs are light years infront of us in terms of creative ability. Henry, Pires, Bergkamp, Scholes, Ronaldo, Rooney etc but because of this maybe they became too reliant on their star players to pull them through. Its noticable how a much poorer Arsenal side last season reached the final of the CL whereas the "great" Arsenal side struggled to progress in previous years.

by **Sabre** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:02 am

Bad Bob wrote:
Sabre wrote:Remember Drogba in Anfield. The Ref conceded many fouls in favour of Carraguer, as Drogba's contact wasn't legal. The Ref was Spaniard, and Anfield was happy with the decissions. Drogba in Spain would struggle more than other more skillful strikers, as his contact routine and movements would be very punnished (Ask Kovacevic, or Zigic, the masters of fouls against them).

It definitely cuts both ways though, mate, since Gonzalez wasn't letting Crouch get away with much either. In fact, Crouch often gets called for a lot of non-fouls when playing for us in Europe or when playing for England. He just looks like he's fouling every time he challenges for a header and the continental refs are quick to give the defender that call. I just hope that doesn't hurt us too much in the final.

I agree this, but I think Drogba was a bit more punished as he was more dirty in the contacts. And I agree Crouch is punnished often too much in Europe and with England.

Red37 though, points out correctly that he saw Mejuto Gonzalez allowing the game flowed. I do think Gonzalez tried to adapt to the English game, but some of his bias could be seen especially in the boxes -- Spanish refs are paniqued to see things in boxes. In the middle of the pitch though, he allowed contact.

I remember a tasty challenge to the Mikel by Gerrard, and then a sequence of quite hard challenges that were all allowed, with the Alonso challenge to end the sequence. At that point I knew he put the bar for the yellow quite high.

As for the point of S@int about bullying the weak teams, there must be some truth in it, because I got FRUSTRATED yesteryear when Chelsea got away with the 3 points so easily often. But I think it's up to us to prepare the season properly, start stronger -prefferably without qualification rounds- and polish that mistakes that costs us points.

by **stmichael** » Fri May 04, 2007 1:43 pm

According to various papers, particularly the Daily Express is because we have picked and chosen our competitions and saved ourself for only one tournament. We have devalued the whole of football by doing this and the likes of Man U and Chelsea should be there instead because they have bothered to put up a fight in the league, FA & Carling Cup.

I just think it's because we know how to play in Europe and the rest of the Premier League are all bitter, jealous c#nts.

What have Arsenal been saving themselves for then?

Also, did they say this to them last season when they barely qualified for CL? I hate journalists. They are all sh#t. Even the good ones.

It is all one way really, Arsenal never did a tap in the league last year but when they got to the final it was the decent thing to get behind them because they are an English team, even though they have lots of foreigners in their team. At least Liverpool still have an English heartbeat, Arsenal are just a team who happen to have their ground in London.

Even the likes of Bolton do my head in - last year Sam Allardyce rested most of his first team for an FA Cup game which they predictably lost. Bolton haven't won anything for years yet would still rather finish 5th/6th in the league than win the FA Cup. Reading got knocked out of the FA Cup by the Mancs yet Steve Coppell publicly stated that he wasn't bothered in the slightest as he is keeping them in the top flight, he will get told what a fantastic manager he is by all the press.

Liverpool were out of the title race in September/October and lost twice to Arsenal in January, we qualified for next seasons' CL a few weeks ago yet the press think we should risk our players being injured or tired by playing Portsmouth ahead of the Chelsea game. I don't think many journo's like Liverpool do you?

by **redtrader74** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:48 pm

Good Points, St.mike, Journalists are rubbish. They do not REPORT anything anymore, they just give opinions, thats why i rarely buy a paper.

It is simple, the scum and Chelski did rest players last Saturday, (ok not as many as us), but they did. The scum rest players throughout the season, especially in the cups, and even in the league.

Had they won on Tues/wed this would not be an issue, but since they did not it had to be because they were TIRED, not because Milan and LFC were better prepared, better tactically and had more desire. They write the excuses for salex all the time, (maureen got the benefit of this as he is same boat.)

Its funny, when we lose we are told its because Rafa doesn't play his best team all the time like Chelski, and when we win its because we rotated our squad!! Make your mind up you hacks.

by **dawson99** » Fri May 04, 2007 4:33 pm

Santa wrote:
DCFC wrote:Manc forum is ripped

You just gotta love him!!

I loved that reply from "DJS" Priceless...I just can't stop laughing

...so how good is Rafa? he predicted the finalist back in Feb, way before the last-16 games are played

http://home.skysports.com/list.as....+repeat

this deserves its own thread :bowdown

by **The Manhattan Project** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:05 am

We succeed in Europe because this trophy...

...belongs to us.

And such, like a magnetic pull, it is attracted to us.

I see us winning it for a sixth time, probably within the next three seasons.

It's simply inevitable.

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