Liverpool FC Forum

by **AB's Red Army** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:54 am

I've been impressed by various members over the last couple of days in regard to debating in multiple threads in the LFC general discussion.

We all have our different opinions and views on certain matters, but it's just refreshing to see the majority get their point across without having to be in a slug fest with someone.

I myself have been guilty of it in the past, but I think it's important that we as senior members of the forum continue to debate properly and set an example.

We have far too many intelligent individuals on here to go down the road of bickering back and forth.

Although the match thread is heated as always, the discussions taken place after the match on Saturday have been quite pleasant to my surprise.

I also credit the new moderators who have done a splendid job.

by **112-1077774096** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:19 am

f*ck off AB

seriously i agree mate, personally i have been avoiding spats as i have also been guilty of it in the past. sadly there are still posters who have to resort to it at every opportunity in the belief that is still funny or just to try and antagonise people, no need for it in a football forum, its not funny, its playground stuff and it brings nothing to the discussion, calling someone names because they disagree with you is just infantile really, its better to enter a reasoned debate

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:25 am

I tried

but was the victim of an unprevoked attack.

by **AB's Red Army** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:42 am

Well said PeeWee.

Saint, you're a bender for sending me a pointless PM.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:48 am

AB's Red Army wrote:Well said PeeWee.

Saint, you're a bender for sending me a pointless PM.

See second pm for details

by **Sabre** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:31 am

I have to agree with AB.

Also I liked the bit of threads renamed to a more accurate description of what's being discussed inside, and early lock of pointless threads. I
Well done mods.

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:13 am

The forum is currently the healthiest it has been in ages in my opinion. It is being brillinatly moderated by the new lads, and despite the rotation thing polarising opinion into broadly two camps, people are being pretty sensible about it.

My suspicion is that the likes of Sabre, AB, Lando and the rest of the pro-camp have chained their beliefs to whatever feels secure on deck and won't be leaving the ship no matter what happens. Fair enough I say and good luck to them, FWIW I have admired Sabre and Lando over the years for sticking to their guns under extreme pressure on occasions, I wouldn't have expected anything less. AB has been away for a while and although he has managed to curtail his dissent with the refs, I get the distinct imptression that he still has plenty of fire in his belly and good luck to him also. I detect more than a hint of "anti-Mickyness" in one or two of his recent posts and after years without a flame war on the boards, I am strapping on the jet boosters (whatever the feck they are, don't know where that came from TBH) for maybe my first. Fair enough, if you believe rotation is actually the right way to go, there has been no more consistent, no louder and no more boring critic of it than myself over the last three seasons so it's only natural you'd go for one of the front runners of the "anti" brigade. Bring it on I say and lets see who's right.

For my part I've consistently said that no team will ever win the English Premier League while employing rotation "Rafa style". My colours are firmly chained to the mast that's it's not the best way to extract the most points out of a group of players, and I'm there to be shot at if the team can prove me wrong.

It doesn't mean though that people have to hate each other, and so far the debate has been pretty sensible I reckon. It's definately going to run and run because rafa is going to rotate come what may, I just hope that he keeps it too a minimum and gives us a chance at the title. That's what it's all about at the end of the day. If like AB, you think we are a bit short of a title winning team then obviously finishing third with a better points total than last season would be a step closer and therefore an achievement. Under these circumstances you are less likely to criticise rotation. If like me you think we have a good enough team/squad to win the title, then you are going to be less impressed with a finish which does not constitute a genuine and sustained title challenge.

I wonder what would make the "pro" camp reconsider. Sabre has already come out and said that if we don't launch a proper title challenge with this group of players he would consider the methods visa-vis team selection have let us down a bit and that's fair enough. It will all pan out as the season goes on. It wouldn't just be a title win that would convince me that I am wrong, if Rafa gets within genuine title challenge territory (ie within four points of the eventual champions) while employing rotation on the scale and to the personel which he currently is, it'd be humble pie for me. We'll see very soon.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:30 am

To be honest Mick do you really think there is any point in being anti-rotational ? Rafa isn't going to change, at least not in my opinion. At best, I think all you can hope for is better players so its effects are less controversial and perhaps a little easier to accept.

I believe in rotation but not so strongly that I don't have doubts, especially when we have a bad result. I just feel you are wasting your breath mate, because even if you are right which you quite possibly are...... Rafa isn't going to change.

So my question is would you rather have Rafa and rotation or another manager who believes in a best 11 most weeks ?

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:16 am

s@int wrote:So my question is would you rather have Rafa and rotation or another manager who believes in a best 11 most weeks ?

Sh!t after all these years debating the subject, somebody has finally stumped me good and proper Saint. I'd rather have Rafa and his rotation I think because I think he's done an excellent job of building a really competitive team.

My feeling is though that this season something will give. If he continues rotating at his present rate, the same as he has for three years (and before anybody jumps in here I'm not talking about the Birmingham selection which was broadly sensible) either we will be successful (unlikely in my opinion, in the league anyway) or we won't and I think he will either leave or be forced out at the end of the season.

If on the other hand he reduces the number, frequency and magnitude in terms of player and opposition quality of his rotations, I think we can win the league. Unlike many, I actually think this is a distict possibility. I'm not saying for one second that he will call a press conference saying that he has decided to ditch rotation on the scale he has practised it in the past, but I do believe that come the time of reckoning he may well resort to a fairly settled eleven, which is all I ask at the end of the day. I would for instance be absolutely staggered, amazed, gobsmacked if Torres didn't start the next four of five league games unless he gets seriously injured. Even if Spain play an impromtu friendly in outer Mongolia, followed by an exhibition match at the MCG on the Wednesday, Torres will start for Liverpool in the league for the forseeable I'm sure of it. I'm even going to take a punt and say that this will be the case even if the opposition decide to be extremely unsporting about the whole thing and defend deep, cheeky feckers.

Why? because Rafa is a bit stubborn but he is not stupid. Also, despite what some think, he does hear the criticism as well and is not immune to it. Torres to start for the forseeable in the Prem, mark my words.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:35 am

First of all, it's a great point AB and it makes my new job much easier. Long may it continue!

Now to Mick's question...

bigmick wrote:I wonder what would make the "pro" camp reconsider. Sabre has already come out and said that if we don't launch a proper title challenge with this group of players he would consider the methods visa-vis team selection have let us down a bit and that's fair enough. It will all pan out as the season goes on. It wouldn't just be a title win that would convince me that I am wrong, if Rafa gets within genuine title challenge territory (ie within four points of the eventual champions) while employing rotation on the scale and to the personel which he currently is, it'd be humble pie for me. We'll see very soon.

As someone who generally supports rotation, I must say the last two league matches have brought conflicting emotions. I still support the selections made at Portsmouth because I honestly believe the internationals take a heavy toll on fitness and on our ability to prepare. That's the kind of game where we have to rotate heavily and hope for a rub of the green, IMO.

But, to not play our best striker--whatever his shortcomings or form in midweek--at home against Brum when we need to rebuild momentum for tactical reasons? Naw, that's not on for me. There is no way we need to be setting out or stall as a response to Birmingham City. Start Torres and get them worried. If they are sitting deep and he's not having an impact we can change the approach and personnel as the game goes. But to leave him on the bench because a lesser light is coming to defend is a mistake in my book.

So, if Rafa continues to rotate because his fitness analyses and training regimes dictate he should, I'll support it. If he continues to leave top players on the bench as a tactic--I'll be critical.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:58 am

Funnily enough Bob I support rotation and take the exact opposite view to you on the two games. I thought he should have played a much stronger team against Portsmouth (Gerrard and Torres), and I was quite happy for him to rest Torres for tactical reasons ,even though with hindsight he may have got it wrong.

Maybe BigMick is slowly converting me

My view is that Rafa rested players against Portsmouth with a view to the midweek game against Porto, not because they were tired after international duty. As I want the league and I am not really to concerned about the CL at this stage, I would have preferred him to rest players midweek CL rather than in the league.

Rafa made a tactical decision not to play Torres against Birmingham, which I can understand, even though it was possibly wrong in hindsight.

by **Sabre** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:39 pm

I wonder what would make the "pro" camp reconsider. Sabre has already come out and said that if we don't launch a proper title challenge with this group of players he would consider the methods visa-vis team selection have let us down a bit and that's fair enough. It will all pan out as the season goes on. It wouldn't just be a title win that would convince me that I am wrong, if Rafa gets within genuine title challenge territory (ie within four points of the eventual champions) while employing rotation on the scale and to the personel which he currently is, it'd be humble pie for me. We'll see very soon.

Certainly it will take more than a little storm to chain me on the mast, let alone jump desperately leaving the vessel.

When the euphoria made some posters creating a thread "We're on top" and they were ready to show it to their Chelsea mates, Rafa was saying that winning the league was going to be difficult. And it's going to be difficult because of factors he has mentioned like the international breaks, which have come together with an European night and some injuries.

So we have windy weather in the voyage now, and we got some draws. That's what happened, a little storm, so the proper thing to do is not to jump desperately to the sea, it's not safe, the proper thing to do is to handle the rudder firmly and haul down the sails not do damage them. Soon enough we'll have wind behind and be at full speed.

It's fair I consider a failure of the rotation policy if we don't compete for the league this year. As I thought one of the main problems we had was squad depth, and, despite we haven't signed the men I would have signed to strenghten it, we have a very very strong team.

So if the people dare to jump from the vessel so soon to the ocean and wilderness of the old non rotation vessel, and say the rotation doesn't work so soon, I have to put some risk over the table aswell and say rotation will lead us to be close to the league or win it, and you can quote me on that at the end of the season.

The boards are healthier now. We even have football in general chat. But rotation wasn't the culprit of the problems we had before

, it's the posters trying and achieving to behave better what is making the forum better.

by **woof woof !** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:51 pm

Sabre wrote:The boards are healthier now. We even have football in general chat.

Personally I'm disappointed that a thread about how wonderful the new mods are has descended into yet more talk about Rafa and rotation (already being fully explored in the correct section).

Get back to telling the mods how great we are or this thread gets locked.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:57 pm

woof woof ! wrote:Get back to telling the mods how great we are or this thread gets locked.

We're not worthy

Great site lads

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:59 pm

Get back to telling the mods how great we are or this thread gets locked.

No f.ucking way, you've had enough plaudits over the last week or so, you dont need more for the sake of it.

BTW Lock this thread please Big Mick has yet again brought up rotation, furry muff, but not in general chat.

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