Liverpool FC Forum

kunilson wrote:oh!

just remembered the story of a mate's mate(usually how this sorta thing goes)....it was his stag night, and they got him lashed. then decided to strip him and leave him unconscious in a graveyard.

the story goes that he got so freaked out when he woke up by something that it is the reason he is mental now....he never got married in the end, seems his wife to be was as good as his friends were.

don't know if that counts as paranormal

No. Its just feckin awful. 

red37 wrote:Shanks, im going to offer here what appears at first glance to be a contradiction.

A lot (if not a definitive) amount of these 'tales' can easily be attributed to the Chemical/Biological cessation of the Brain's function and its immediate structures at the exact
moment of Death. There are copious articles on the subject of NDE's and the like...that account similar features of the procedure. (Scientifically, it is exactly that - an event). The 'mind' is an entirely different conceptual beast. Much of its purpose/existence is yet to be mapped, or categorized sufficiently enough as to offer any true authority on the subject. Science, not Religion will of course provide the answers in time. As is its aim....or will it?

But of course, there will remain a 'cult' appreciation of all things inexplicable as long as we, as Natural and supremely developed organisms (given the capability for exploration - derived from whichever source) hold within our remit, the desire and will to answer such questions that are layed out like fragmented pieces of some 'uber'- puzzle, that evolution would have you believe, simply have to be solved in order to move up to the next rung on the great progressive ladder.

The exact moment of Death can be explained (sufficiently enough for my curiosity) by the following:

WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO DIE

Any pain to be suffered comes first.  Instinctively you fight to survive. That is automatic. It is inconceivable to the conscious mind that any other reality could possibly exist beside the earth-world of matter bounded by time and space.  We are used to it.  We have been trained since birth to live and thrive in it.  We know ourselves to be ourselves by the external stimuli we receive.  Life tells us who we are and we accept its telling.  That, too, is automatic, and to be expected.

Your body goes limp.  Your heart stops.  No more air flows in or out.

You lose sight, feeling, and movement – although the ability to hear goes last.  Identity ceases. 

The "you" that you once were becomes only a memory.

There is no pain at the moment of death. Only peaceful silence. . . calm. . . quiet.

But you still exist.

It is easy not to breathe.  In fact, it is easier, more comfortable, and infinitely more natural not to breathe than to breathe.  The biggest surprise for most people in dying is to realize that dying does not end life.  Whether darkness or light comes next, or some kind of event, be it positive,
negative, or somewhere in-between, expected or unexpected, the biggest surprise of all is to realize you are still you.  You can still think, you can still remember, you can still see, hear, move, reason, wonder, feel, question, and tell jokes – if you wish.

You are still alive, very much alive.  Actually, you're more alive after death than at any time since you were last born.  Only the way of all this is different; different because you no longer wear a dense body to filter and amplify the various sensations you had once regarded as the only valid indicators of what constitutes life.  You had always been taught one has to wear a body to live.

If you expect to die when you die you will be disappointed.

The only thing dying does is help you release, slough off, and discard the "jacket" you once wore

(more commonly referred to as a body).

When you die you lose your body. That's all there is to it.

Nothing else is lost.

You are not your body.  It is just something you wear for a while, because living in the earth-plane is infinitely more meaningful and more involved if you are encased in its trappings and subject to its rules.


WHAT DEATH IS

There is a step-up of energy at the moment of death, an increase in speed as if you are suddenly vibrating faster than before. Using radio as an analogy, this speed-up is comparable to having lived all your life at a certain radio frequency when all of a sudden someone or something comes along and flips the dial. 

That flip shifts you to another, higher wavelength. The original frequency where you once existed is still there.  It did not change. Everything is still just the same as it was.  Only you changed, only you speeded up to allow entry into the next radio frequency on the dial.

As is true with all radios and radio stations, there can be bleed-overs or distortions of transmission signals due to interference patterns.  These can allow or force frequencies to coexist or commingle for indefinite periods of time.  Normally, most shifts up the dial are fast and efficient; but, occasionally, one can run into interference, perhaps from a strong emotion, a sense of duty, or a need to fulfill a vow, or keep a promise. 

This interference could allow coexistence of frequencies for a few seconds, days, or even years (perhaps explaining hauntings); but, sooner or later, eventually, every given vibrational frequency will seek out or be nudged to where it belongs.

You fit your particular spot on the dial by your speed of vibration.  You cannot coexist forever where you do not belong. Who can say how many spots there are on the dial or how many frequencies there are to inhabit.  No one knows.

You shift frequencies in dying.  You switch over to life on another wave-length.  You are still a spot on the dial but you move up or down a notch or two. You don't die when you die.  You shift your consciousness and speed of vibration.

That's all death is. . . a shift.



Now, for me, that provides enough crumbs of comfort for the purpose of the debate it undoubtedly generates. And there are several pertinant questions raised within the above, that only add yet more sustenance to the flames....but wouldn't it be great if that were the case?  Wouldn't it explain it all? 

Certainly, we do not have more than that 'conveniently explained hypothesis' to go on - just yet.  It is in the matter of 'Where' exactly the conscience is ultimately shifted TO, that intrigues my senses.  Remember, The greatest Fear of them all is the one which binds the sufferer to its perceived limitations. And the querant who demands the answers, as proof...usually has the greatest urge to suppress the volume of his/her questions in the first place.

Love it Red hit a chord with me ( maybe cus its happend to me ).  personal belief or collective? Have you read much Crowley? You havent stated but do you belive in a higher force or god? Sorry but i like reading your posts ( when ur not being provoked by a t|t who must be lost anyway cus this is a thread about PARANORMAL THINGS ) after a few Js. Ive really enjoyed reading  the last two days posts although it would have been a lot quicker without all the 2007 , if you dont belive why come to the thread.

LFC2007 wrote:

red37 wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:Interesting, I may be curt but your posts are inherently full of jibberish, are typically arrogant and take all of an hour for you to compose.

Say's the fella with an average post count of almost 21 per day in less than 3 month!  The majority of which descend into some form of insulting, pompous wankery by one means or another, almost without exception.  Not forgetting a fully functioning stopwatch btw. 

I'll have to remind the kids next time, that LFC2007 is on standby and nothing can be excused for the sake of having the last word!  No matter how spurious its origin.   

And maybe if I had been off work for 18 months I may just start believing in casper the friendly ghost! 

Who gives a feck about post count! A post is a post, I tend to make worthwhile contributions in the football section more often than not as oppose to playing guess the song, which seems to be your show.



T!t

LFC2007 wrote:I made a few light hearted jokes, then gave my opinions. If that post you cite p!ssed you off then fair enough, it was a post clearly not aimed at you.

Rush Job wrote:The universe has intent inbuilt in its workings, love it. Do you agree with " Do as thou will be the whole of the law", have you read Crowleys Book of the law, what you make of it?

red37 wrote:Ok, RJ you asked two questions of me in the post further up the page. One of which i'll quickly answer here:

Yes ive studied Aleister Crowley's teachings, i will offer no opinion on the man himself - for reasons which i'll keep council on, other than to say he was an interesting subject to me when i first became involved with these things. He has had a fair amount of 'bad press' during his lifetime, some of it warranted perhaps...like i say, his works are instrumental to any follower of occultism and provide a great deal of substance...however, light reading it most certainly is not. great Tarot deck though - 'Thoth' is stunning.

The second question, about my beliefs. Well, ive taken the liberty to answer it in a suitably round about and long winded manner, which not only will take a while to read...but is likely to leave no shred of doubt as to the complexity involved in my affording it as much sincerity as possible. Time immemorial that particular question above all others will ravage even the quietest of minds...until the day enlightenment is fulfilled.

First i want to lay a couple of common misconceptions to bed.


Psychic 'Powers'

Psychic activity is not the realm of the sideshow freak, or the charlatan after a few bob - at least it shouldn't be by way of universal law. It is a natural state of mind where the conventional boundaries of understanding/perception are breached to reveal/interpret what lies beyond those limitations. People are cautiously apprehensive of these abilities as though they came 'from satan himself'. 'The work of the devil'..two such ignorant and foolish statements i have had the alacrity to hear over the years. All of us are born with the opportunity to nurture this 'super-sense' - sometimes referred to as the 6th. Yet, through the human conditioning throughout our lives, the ability becomes redundant/dormant.

Nothing special, sinister or 'fantastic' about it. It is a wholly natural 'phenomena'.

You either hone it or lose it. (albeit not completely). Modern society and the stresses and strains of everyday life facilitate the latter and it is easy to forget this capability exists at all to the point where, when it is demonstrated (unfortunately this has now become restricted to the aforementioned pantomime acts) there is alarm and incredulity on the part of the so-called non believer, to the point where ignorance takes the place of any intuitive response. Many texts are freely available for those who would choose to challenge their own beliefs, yet there are equally as many who would prefer to fall into line with the masses through this so called fear of the 'unknown' and shy away from a quite naturally occurring state of mind. Which in any case, is nothing other than their own intuition they are in communication with. Who's afraid of that?

The Occult.

Many people have this all consuming FEAR or apprehension of the term 'Occult' and its derivations, dismissing out of hand the mere fact that it relates to the 'unknown or hidden knowledge' - which basically is all it is. As opposed to some prevalent 'evil' manifest in nigh on every instance where a 'soul' decides (or is predisposed) to traverse a different path to the widely held conventional wisdom. This is perfectly understandable, as it is the inner workings of the 'minds will' and its thirst for enlightenment we are discussing here, as yet Science has still to penetrate deep enough into its chasms in order to make light of its principles in order to translate their meaning clearly enough into the comfortably accepted, materialistic domain.  Despite this, many Religions in fact adhere to their own 'versions' of mysticism/divination and it is surprising to note how widespread their influence is. You ask me to offer an opinion on 'GOD' well, He/She...it, is a component of a spiritual perception. My awareness of a 'super-conscience' that is able to be aligned with and tapped by the will of the mind is also harmonious to that idea.  Even if i equate it to being one and the same with our own.  If you ask me whether this deity is an objective 'being' living beyond a cloud someplace...well im not at liberty to answer that with any certainty. The possibility might exist....you cannot dismiss anything until proof is evident - therein lies a discipline of an 'un-reality' in action. That term doesn't however indicate that something cannot occur, or not be in place ready to be realised.

However, the universe is a gargantuan recycling engine, reinventing/reshaping its mass/matter over and over and over again. One day i believe the universe will expand/implode entropic-ally and ultimately cease to exist. However, thermodynamics isnt entirely relevant here nor do i wish to tread down that complex path. As a brief mention,  for chaos or order to actually be present at any point (which they will be regardless) there has to have been initial Change, creativity, stasis/motion in the first place for that understanding of where the 'universe' is now at to have occurred at all.  But who in their right mind knows for sure...who can say with conviction that we are existing in this that or the other dimension - within this 'supposed' void?  Whether or not we are alone along that journey..Or how exactly it came into being, other than presently understood theories. Thats a paradoxical minefield of far greater things that deserve separate debate. Save to say that indeed there is 'something' tangible - has to be! we wouldn't be here in it otherwise, regardless of the facts of the universe' eventual destiny.

Reality - Unreality.

You take, for example this analogy.

A tree, a solitary tree in the centre of a giant forest - for the sake of our purpose the forest has a circumference of a mile. Felled without any sensory knowledge of its fate to you the reader of this. You neither saw it happen, nor heard it happen. (clearly you couldn't taste, touch or smell it happen either) Unless you were within easy reach of the event. Now the forest is quite obviously huge and the tree being felled was completely out of range from being detected by one or more of your 'physical' senses. Right?  The only substantiated knowledge you are armed with of it transpiring is after the event, as im telling you it did indeed hit the deck. I could be lying to you of course...but that isnt a consequence considered relative to the illustration used here.
We have established (through trust) that the tree was felled. One of thousands in this forest. Nobody saw it...nobody has evidence whatsoever of it happening...but it is quite feasible to presume it might indeed have happened. Nobody is any the wiser...

Again, it could well have NOT occurred easily enough. But the state of un-reality here is, it is possible that it did. It is equally entirely reasonable for somebody to have 'sensed' the event using psychic awareness.Quite different to the scenario that one of the outer trees around the forests edge got the chop, or in fact somebody actually saw this original tree fall to the ground.  That would almost surely had been witnessed...as a reality. Not the greatest of comparisons to offer...but it can ally its points to the perception of a reality/un-reality fairly well for the logic assumed within a debate about the paranormal. (very loose term) That has as much over-use as misinterpretation unfortunately allows.

I use the following concepts when describing "States of Reality": (which contrary to belief i do in fact hold a grip of!) This is an important part of this post and is fairly user-friendly to follow. If i were to pigeon-hole the subject into neat compartments, i personally would sum it up this way. Others can find their own methods.


MUNDANE/EVERYDAY - Provides information to the physical senses and is governed by the laws of nature and Physics. The world around us and how we perceive it.

ETHEREALITY -  a stage of reality in which the laws of physics no longer apply as we know them. If you like, the 'spirit world' vibrate within the astral planes herein. The key point here is that our physical (mundane) senses have access to this realm through the use and extrapolation of our heightened psychic awareness, most likely by those who choose to nurture it. In any case it is the next highest plane of existence and within the comprehension of those sensitive enough to resonate harmoniously alongside it.

INTELLECT - Imagination is the greatest human power of them all. Quite a statement to make, but a true one. The mundane world is affected and influenced by its presence in all manner of ways. Amongst which, the ability to transmute matter and perform Magic etc are most likely to stem from this level of conscience. This is how change can be assumed within the lives of those that choose to adopt what they call 'The power of Positive thinking' - which to all intents and purposes is a form of applied 'magic', albeit a conservative realisation stood up against the otherwise sensationalistic preconceptions of the word.  What we use within our minds is not un-real at all because the ability to produce and manifest into cold reality, a thought in the everyday realm has to have been derived from somewhere...from matter residing within this level is where. You will all have heard the term 'Mind over Matter' well, this is where it gains origin. This particular realm of the universe - Intelligence/Imagination, call it whatever flavour you like. Has the greatest humanitarian potential of all.

How can thought affect physical matter?

Everything is constructed of 'matter' - simplified or complex. A thought impulse in the Brain is no different; regardless as to what reality it eventually manifests itself into - it still was borne/came from 'matter' somewhere deep within the intellectual plane.Let me put it this way. The changes made to mundane/physical matter by a single procession of focused thoughts, by nature of the minuscule properties of the latter, have to be undertaken subtly and repeatedly enough for them to yield results.  Not an easy feat when we are led to distraction at every opportunity.  In all areas of this work, tuning into these realms has lost the element of predictability, to be supplanted by the need to learn/understand them all over again. This is perhaps one of the reasons why Telekinesis is dismissed so easily; because the principle simply hasn't been tested within the right conditions long enough, perhaps even intensively enough to offer any meaningful evidence, as yet.  Still, nobody can definitively say it cannot exist.

Another analogy:  A rock lying in a flowing stream is worn down over many years by the erosive actions of the water running over its surface, that will shape or even split it in two.  Now the same effects can be achieved, although they may take many millenia instead of decades, if the rock had had water drip-drop onto it gradually,  for instance one hidden inside the mouth of a cave. Same action- vastly different timescales.  This suggests intensity of the 'will' or 'desire' if you like can have a direct bearing on the result.  You concentrate hard and long enough and you apply energy focused with sufficient intent and all matter has the capability to be interacted with through the power of mind. The two simply would not exist, in either a real or - un real state inside this universe, if that were not the case. The universe being the sum of all existence, therefore must support the theory that it has an 'intent' somewhere inbuilt into its workings. That will manifest itself into and out of evolving chaos and order rotationally....ad infinitum.

do you do tarot also