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Postby burjennio » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:48 pm

I just think that there are so many accounts of spiritual sightings by genuine people


But the thing is where as many people would see something unusual and attribute it to a gust of wind or fatigue, some genuine people see something unusual and attribute it to being the ghost of their uncle Johnny who was eaten by wild dogs 40 yrs ago to that very second.

Imagination is a wonderful thing and 1 of the key things that makes being Human so different from any other creature

Alcohol and hallucanogenic drugs can be wonderful things too
but none of them ever convinced me that the dead were channeling me (long term anyway)
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Postby neil » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:55 pm

burjennio wrote:
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Quote (burjennio @ July 23 2007,14:10)
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Although I find the evidence of life after death overwhelming..



And when are you ging to share all this evidence with the rest of mankind?


LOL....   

What I mean is that there are so many accounts of paranormal activity around the country that to just shut off and say 'I don't believe in that...'
I find a lil narrow minded to say the least...and I know 'each to their own'....
but I cannot understand how people cannot believe in spirits, when there are so many positive accounts on the subject...and they can't all be lying.

I have had personal experience of the paranormal...so perhaps people need to see for themselves before they will accept it.
So I believe in spirits and a spirit world....
the Bible describes it as 'the world of the dead'...and this is enough 'evidence' for me...'though you may not believe this.

The disciples once mistook Jesus for a spirit..and He said 'they don't have flesh and bone like I have', can't remember the quote...So He was saying ' yeah, there are spirits'.
The Bible says there is life after death and this is what I believe....but to also have had personal experience of the spirits or 'ghosts' still on this earth is overwhelming enough for me....

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REST IN PEACE DRUMMERPHIL, YNWA


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Quote (burjennio @ July 23 2007,14:10)
Quote 
Although I find the evidence of life after death overwhelming..



And when are you ging to share all this evidence with the rest of mankind?


LOL....   

What I mean is that there are so many accounts of paranormal activity around the country that to just shut off and say 'I don't believe in that...'
I find a lil narrow minded to say the least...and I know 'each to their own'....
but I cannot understand how people cannot believe in spirits, when there are so many positive accounts on the subject...and they can't all be lying.

I have had personal experience of the paranormal...so perhaps people need to see for themselves before they will accept it.
So I believe in spirits and a spirit world....
the Bible describes it as 'the world of the dead'...and this is enough 'evidence' for me...'though you may not believe this.

The disciples once mistook Jesus for a spirit..and He said 'they don't have flesh and bone like I have', can't remember the quote...So He was saying ' yeah, there are spirits'.
The Bible says there is life after death and this is what I believe....but to also have had personal experience of the spirits or 'ghosts' still on this earth is overwhelming enough for me....

--------------
 

REST IN PEACE DRUMMERPHIL, YNWA


underneath are the everlasting arms
deuteronomy 33:27



You mention the Bible as evidence of life after death when the Bible is an instrument of faith not a historically accurate document, and although I accept and respect that you are probably a Christian, you cannot mistake it for something it is not.

The truth of the matter is that under scientifically controlled conditions no one has ever coming close to proving in ghosts, psychic ability, telekenisis or any of the other :censored: that charlatans, crooks and people just looking for attention tend to get an unnecessary amount of public access to soften the brains of the general public, usually for a cash profit.

Show me proof and I'll believe but intill then, you're avin a laugh ain't ya?

what about the ghost wasp  ???
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Postby Judge » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:12 pm

look. once your dead thats it
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Postby LFC2007 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:15 pm

I think some people are mistaking 'Paranormal' for 'Paranoia', you know who you are! :p
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Postby scouser 'til I die » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:42 pm

red37 wrote:Shanks, im going to offer here what appears at first glance to be a contradiction.

A lot (if not a definitive) amount of these 'tales' can easily be attributed to the Chemical/Biological cessation of the Brain's function and its immediate structures at the exact
moment of Death. There are copious articles on the subject of NDE's and the like...that account similar features of the procedure. (Scientifically, it is exactly that - an event). The 'mind' is an entirely different conceptual beast. Much of its purpose/existence is yet to be mapped, or categorized sufficiently enough as to offer any true authority on the subject. Science, not Religion will of course provide the answers in time. As is its aim....or will it?

But of course, there will remain a 'cult' appreciation of all things inexplicable as long as we, as Natural and supremely developed organisms (given the capability for exploration - derived from whichever source) hold within our remit, the desire and will to answer such questions that are layed out like fragmented pieces of some 'uber'- puzzle, that evolution would have you believe, simply have to be solved in order to move up to the next rung on the great progressive ladder.

The exact moment of Death can be explained (sufficiently enough for my curiosity) by the following:

WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO DIE

Any pain to be suffered comes first.  Instinctively you fight to survive. That is automatic. It is inconceivable to the conscious mind that any other reality could possibly exist beside the earth-world of matter bounded by time and space.  We are used to it.  We have been trained since birth to live and thrive in it.  We know ourselves to be ourselves by the external stimuli we receive.  Life tells us who we are and we accept its telling.  That, too, is automatic, and to be expected.

Your body goes limp.  Your heart stops.  No more air flows in or out.

You lose sight, feeling, and movement – although the ability to hear goes last.  Identity ceases. 

The "you" that you once were becomes only a memory.

There is no pain at the moment of death. Only peaceful silence. . . calm. . . quiet.

But you still exist.

It is easy not to breathe.  In fact, it is easier, more comfortable, and infinitely more natural not to breathe than to breathe.  The biggest surprise for most people in dying is to realize that dying does not end life.  Whether darkness or light comes next, or some kind of event, be it positive,
negative, or somewhere in-between, expected or unexpected, the biggest surprise of all is to realize you are still you.  You can still think, you can still remember, you can still see, hear, move, reason, wonder, feel, question, and tell jokes – if you wish.

You are still alive, very much alive.  Actually, you're more alive after death than at any time since you were last born.  Only the way of all this is different; different because you no longer wear a dense body to filter and amplify the various sensations you had once regarded as the only valid indicators of what constitutes life.  You had always been taught one has to wear a body to live.

If you expect to die when you die you will be disappointed.

The only thing dying does is help you release, slough off, and discard the "jacket" you once wore

(more commonly referred to as a body).

When you die you lose your body. That's all there is to it.

Nothing else is lost.

You are not your body.  It is just something you wear for a while, because living in the earth-plane is infinitely more meaningful and more involved if you are encased in its trappings and subject to its rules.


WHAT DEATH IS

There is a step-up of energy at the moment of death, an increase in speed as if you are suddenly vibrating faster than before. Using radio as an analogy, this speed-up is comparable to having lived all your life at a certain radio frequency when all of a sudden someone or something comes along and flips the dial. 

That flip shifts you to another, higher wavelength. The original frequency where you once existed is still there.  It did not change. Everything is still just the same as it was.  Only you changed, only you speeded up to allow entry into the next radio frequency on the dial.

As is true with all radios and radio stations, there can be bleed-overs or distortions of transmission signals due to interference patterns.  These can allow or force frequencies to coexist or commingle for indefinite periods of time.  Normally, most shifts up the dial are fast and efficient; but, occasionally, one can run into interference, perhaps from a strong emotion, a sense of duty, or a need to fulfill a vow, or keep a promise. 

This interference could allow coexistence of frequencies for a few seconds, days, or even years (perhaps explaining hauntings); but, sooner or later, eventually, every given vibrational frequency will seek out or be nudged to where it belongs.

You fit your particular spot on the dial by your speed of vibration.  You cannot coexist forever where you do not belong. Who can say how many spots there are on the dial or how many frequencies there are to inhabit.  No one knows.

You shift frequencies in dying.  You switch over to life on another wave-length.  You are still a spot on the dial but you move up or down a notch or two. You don't die when you die.  You shift your consciousness and speed of vibration.

That's all death is. . . a shift.



Now, for me, that provides enough crumbs of comfort for the purpose of the debate it undoubtedly generates. And there are several pertinant questions raised within the above, that only add yet more sustenance to the flames....but wouldn't it be great if that were the case?  Wouldn't it explain it all? 

Certainly, we do not have more than that 'conveniently explained hypothesis' to go on - just yet.  It is in the matter of 'Where' exactly the conscience is ultimately shifted TO, that intrigues my senses.  Remember, The greatest Fear of them all is the one which binds the sufferer to its perceived limitations. And the querant who demands the answers, as proof...usually has the greatest urge to suppress the volume of his/her questions in the first place.

So your theory is basically like that ghosts are in another dimension but in the same room like the film Silent Hill if anyones ever seen that. And the theory of death and going into like a different dimension, good stuff. Really intriguing and persuasive from my part I have to say, never looked upon existence quite like what you are describing Red but it does feel right somehow, I would love to learn more consequently :)
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Postby red37 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:47 pm

Still not volunteering for the chance to test it though!  :D

In a way it reminded me a bit of the scene in The Abyss where EM (forget her screen name)...or was it EH?  had to technically drown in order to transgress the distance underwater by breathing in the fluid in the chamber. Think it was Harris wasn't it?

Anyway, the general jist of the text referring to Death and the moment it occurs, did somehow flick some kind of switch in me. Like i say, Fear is the greatest enemy of all...in ANY walk of life.
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Postby LFC2007 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:00 pm

red37 wrote:WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO DIE

Any pain to be suffered comes first.  Instinctively you fight to survive. That is automatic. It is inconceivable to the conscious mind that any other reality could possibly exist beside the earth-world of matter bounded by time and space.  We are used to it.  We have been trained since birth to live and thrive in it.  We know ourselves to be ourselves by the external stimuli we receive.  Life tells us who we are and we accept its telling.  That, too, is automatic, and to be expected.

Your body goes limp.  Your heart stops.  No more air flows in or out.

You lose sight, feeling, and movement – although the ability to hear goes last.  Identity ceases. 

The "you" that you once were becomes only a memory.

There is no pain at the moment of death. Only peaceful silence. . . calm. . . quiet.

But you still exist.

It is easy not to breathe.  In fact, it is easier, more comfortable, and infinitely more natural not to breathe than to breathe.  The biggest surprise for most people in dying is to realize that dying does not end life.  Whether darkness or light comes next, or some kind of event, be it positive,
negative, or somewhere in-between, expected or unexpected, the biggest surprise of all is to realize you are still you.  You can still think, you can still remember, you can still see, hear, move, reason, wonder, feel, question, and tell jokes – if you wish.

You are still alive, very much alive.  Actually, you're more alive after death than at any time since you were last born.  Only the way of all this is different; different because you no longer wear a dense body to filter and amplify the various sensations you had once regarded as the only valid indicators of what constitutes life.  You had always been taught one has to wear a body to live.

If you expect to die when you die you will be disappointed.

The only thing dying does is help you release, slough off, and discard the "jacket" you once wore

(more commonly referred to as a body).

When you die you lose your body. That's all there is to it.

Nothing else is lost.

You are not your body.  It is just something you wear for a while, because living in the earth-plane is infinitely more meaningful and more involved if you are encased in its trappings and subject to its rules.

You sound like you've died before  :laugh:
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Postby scouser 'til I die » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:02 pm

Another thought that came into mind is that when u mention death as being "a change of frequency" so to speak, is there some kind of way to perhaps subjugate death in a way and perhaps prevent deaths altogether. Or is it an inevitability due to the body wanting us to change frequency and therefore it shuts down. Which would explain the variety at which us humans die E.G. heart failure or Lung Cancer (different parts of the body fails is what I am trying to clarify)
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Postby red37 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:19 pm

scouser 'til I die wrote:Another thought that came into mind is that when u mention death as being "a change of frequency" so to speak, is there some kind of way to perhaps subjugate death in a way and perhaps prevent deaths altogether. Or is it an inevitability due to the body wanting us to change frequency and therefore it shuts down. Which would explain the variety at which us humans die E.G. heart failure or Lung Cancer (different parts of the body fails is what I am trying to clarify)

Perhaps mate.

Although the chances are that those conditions (along with pretty much all the rest, out there) you have mentioned being simply nothing else than genetically 'programmed' defects, inherent in the unfortunate persons DNA, is substantially high. If not totally definitive.  Basically, the 'body' becomes useless as a vehicle to support the functional requirements of the biological systems necessary to uphold life, once it endures this Death, and all these components that previously performed their individual tasks in harmonious tandem, as a whole to sustain that prior state, cease to exist. Quite what 'trigger' it is that starts the chain reaction underway, is another subject entirely. If indeed the notion that some kind of 'domino' effect, or by necessity to dramatically alter any 'vibrational' state takes place in such circumstances might be credible. Who knows?
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Postby LFC2007 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:26 pm

scouser 'til I die wrote:Another thought that came into mind is that when u mention death as being "a change of frequency" so to speak, is there some kind of way to perhaps subjugate death in a way and perhaps prevent deaths altogether. Or is it an inevitability due to the body wanting us to change frequency and therefore it shuts down. Which would explain the variety at which us humans die E.G. heart failure or Lung Cancer (different parts of the body fails is what I am trying to clarify)

I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous now, different parts of the body failing and changing frequency! Subjugate death?! You'll need a bloody good doctor for that!
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Postby LFC2007 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:31 pm

red37 wrote:Although the chances are that those conditions (along with pretty much all the rest, out there) you have mentioned being simply nothing else than genetically 'programmed' defects, inherent in the unfortunate persons DNA, is substantially high. If not totally definitive. 

So you're saying that the causes of death are genetically pre-determined? The cause of Lung cancer is not necessarily genetic - or 'all the rest' as you put it, what about the 40 ciggies the person smoked a day? Did a supreme power foresee this and genetically predispose your body to these conditions?
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Postby scouser 'til I die » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:34 pm

One other thought :) There have been a lot of evidence suggesting that new borns and ghosts have a vague connection, some people believe that babies can see ghosts highlighting some of the ghosts behaviour.  I know someones parents who told me that my mate would constantly stare at a empty corner and point and make gestures, as though communicating to someone. Ghosts perhaps?

Again referring to the "frequency switching" theory, perhaps they and we also have been changed from one frequency to another from a past life and when at birth, we are not yet fully present in this "frequency" (again referring back to your theory of the dial not quite on a certain frequency) therefore explaining that babies maybe are able see and hear and possibly communicate in this other dimension so to speak.

Does open the mind up from normal thinking this :D

Plus I have been watching many videos on youtube so I am in the "mood" of this type of discussion.... c'mon people the season hasn't started yet might as well use this forum to good use :laugh: --> this one wets the appetite *gulps" :help

Oh and lastly what are your views on poltergeists?
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Postby neil » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:36 pm

If a ghost bee stings someone it dies again ??? what do we make of that? would it be in ghost bee pergatory persay?
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Postby LFC2007 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:36 pm

scouser 'til I die wrote: I know someones parents who told me that my mate would constantly stare at a empty corner and point and make gestures, as though communicating to someone. Ghots perhaps?

And you're under!  :laugh:
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Postby woof woof ! » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:37 pm

scouser 'til I die wrote:I know someones parents who told me that my mate would constantly stare at a empty corner and point and make gestures, as though communicating to someone.

:laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

We used to call them nutters and just locked the f'uckers up for their own safety .  :laugh:
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