Liverpool FC Forum

by **Red Macgregor** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:08 pm

Just a thought but do we think Rafa can pull of the big value buy, say in the £20m, or is his skill in the lower value?

by **Owzat** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:17 pm

All his cheaper buys have either come and gone or are fringe/younger players

Xabi Alonso £10.5m
Kuyt £10m
Crouch £7m
Pennant £6.7m
Luis Garcia £6.5m
Morientes £6.3m
Bellamy £6m
Reina £6m
Agger £5.8m
Sissoko £5.6m

Arbeloa £2.6m
Paletta £2m
Josemi £2m
Kromkamp £2m (swapped for Josemi)
Nunez ? (swap deal for Owen)

I have mixed feelings about the signings of around £5m-£7m and since he's only bought two players of £10m+ it's hard to judge what he's like splashing the cash. I have a 'report' on the spendings and returns of Rafa, Houllier and Evans including how much a team Houllier left could be assembled for and how much Rafa's team is worth now. I am working on it still, not had much time or incentive to finalise it, plus of course getting accurate transfer fee information isn't always easy. Any suggested sites welcome, I tend to use two or three and see if they agree. (like the one I used for the above fees has no value listed for Kuyt or Crouch, or indeed Mascherano if we will ever know)

by **ivor_the_injun** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:48 pm

I think he's got a good eye for a player. The only criticism I'd have is his ability to spot talent that can translate to the Prem. Gonzalez is the most glaring example of a player that looked the part in Spain, but who was just an empty shirt at LFC.

Other than that, I think his hit to miss ratio on the signings front isn't too bad. Morientes is the most high profile clunker, but I don't think anybody expected him to be quite that underwhelming.

In the current squad, Paletta is the real standout in terms of a guy that just doesn't even give glimpses of being good enough. Only cost £2m though, so it's limited damage. It's tended to be the Josemis, Pellegrinos and Zendens that haven't done the business, and Josemi was the only one of those three that cost us any money.

by **Stu.Murph** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:09 pm

ivor_the_injun wrote:I think he's got a good eye for a player. The only criticism I'd have is his ability to spot talent that can translate to the Prem. Gonzalez is the most glaring example of a player that looked the part in Spain, but who was just an empty shirt at LFC.

Other than that, I think his hit to miss ratio on the signings front isn't too bad. Morientes is the most high profile clunker, but I don't think anybody expected him to be quite that underwhelming.

In the current squad, Paletta is the real standout in terms of a guy that just doesn't even give glimpses of being good enough. Only cost £2m though, so it's limited damage. It's tended to be the Josemis, Pellegrinos and Zendens that haven't done the business, and Josemi was the only one of those three that cost us any money.

And I think you're absoloutely nuts.

He has a glaring lack of ability to judge how good certain players are and its that reason we're where we are in the league.

The signings of Sissoko, Agger, Kuyt and Crouch are the ones that wind me up the most. None of them are excellent players, yet all of them are in our first 11.

Its not even about how much money has been spent. The only real class he's brought in is Reina, Alonso and Fowler. Fowler's now left. He's signed to many decent players, he needs to go out an sign class players.

by **puroresu** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:11 pm

Pennant was a dodgy buy for me. Too much.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:14 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:He has a glaring lack of ability to judge how good certain players are and its that reason we're where we are in the league.

The signings of Sissoko, Agger, Kuyt and Crouch are the ones that wind me up the most. None of them are excellent players, yet all of them are in our first 11.

For me, this is where I laugh, cry and laugh again.

......

cue "censored"......"censored"........."censored"

by **grayghost** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:16 pm

Never rearly heard off Alonso,Sissoko,Agerr,reina before Rafa signed them. They cost about 29mil together and must be worth at least 60 65mil now so he does have an eye for talent. Give him the money and he will find the gold.

by **flamingpoe** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:27 pm

The signings of Sissoko, Agger, Kuyt and Crouch are the ones that wind me up the most. None of them are excellent players, yet all of them are in our first 11.

really i disagree with you, sissoko is a very good buy he is gonna be one of the better cdm in the world soon, juventus and ac milan wanted to buy him, so ur just WRONG, agger has looked a quality buy and give a few years will be a very good replacement for carra, kuyt was the top scorer for the dutch eredivisie, the year beofre rafa bought him, crouch tho i do agree with you, so ur perspective isn't completely wrong

by **Ciggy** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:37 pm

His Valencia team was excellent but I am not sure who he bought and what players where there already. But there was quite a few excellent players in that team his buys who knows?
But here it comes down to 3 things.
1. Money who can we afford?
If we had Chelsea and Madrids money to splash around on who ever we wanted I am not a 100% sure if he is the type of manager to over pay for a player that he doesnt think he is worth it.

2. Are we attractive enough?
Us as fans think we are the best club in the world but to some players maybe they dont think we are.

3. Henry was saying in his interview today that he joined Barca because he loves the way they play football like he loved the way Arsenal play.
Rafa is a very defensive manager we are excellent at the back and in midfield but upfront there is no cutting edge there was not one game last season in the prem where we where brilliant for 90 mins not one.

And Rafa changes the way some players play Dirk Kuyt was brilliant in Holland playing as a CF sadly he hasnt been given the opportunity to do the same at Liverpool maybe once or twice but not every game instead he has been used as a workhorse my bet had he been used to do his job and not fanny about in midfield he would have scored around 20 goals last season.

if Torres does come he will be used as the target man and maybe Kuyt will benefit from him who knows?

Due to the constant rotation at Liverpool some players may be even put off coming.
Its ok for players and Rafa to say they know about it but its a different matter when they are in that situation and dummies being spat out left right and centre because of it either not starting games or being subbed.

by **Wilhelmsson** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:39 pm

Rafa hasn’t done badly in the transfer market, especially when he has had a limited transfer budget to work with in an age where most of Europe’s best players cost ½ or 2/3 of the combined transfer budget. Then you have the incompetence of Rick Parry who chooses to go on holiday at the most crucial time of the football calendar or he leaves is phone off and cannot be contacted.

The problem is when you have a transfer budget as minuet as Rafa has bee given, getting the right players to challenge the league is very difficult. You can of course use Wenger as an example of someone who can work with a small budget, when Wenger took over the transfer fees were smaller in price then when Benitez took charge of Liverpool and this is a factor which needs to be taken into account. If you haven’t got the financial footing, then no matter who you employ, challenging with the big spenders will always prove to be an up-hill struggle.

My criticism of Benitez is his policy of signing squad players rather than buying perhaps one or two very accomplished players who will make a difference to the side. He has bought a lot of players such as Zenden when I felt he should perhaps chased someone who would cost perhaps 2/3 of the budget, but would make a vast difference to the team.

This has to stop IMO; we cannot afford to be wasting money on the likes of Yossi Benayoun when our first team in places needs a radical overhaul of new and improved talent in certain positions.

by **grayghost** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:41 pm

Hopefully the attractive part will change if we can get some players in.

by **Stu.Murph** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:41 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:He has a glaring lack of ability to judge how good certain players are and its that reason we're where we are in the league.

The signings of Sissoko, Agger, Kuyt and Crouch are the ones that wind me up the most. None of them are excellent players, yet all of them are in our first 11.

For me, this is where I laugh, cry and laugh again.

......

cue "censored"......"censored"........."censored"

Says it all.

by **grayghost** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:43 pm

by **Stu.Murph** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:43 pm

flamingpoe wrote:
The signings of Sissoko, Agger, Kuyt and Crouch are the ones that wind me up the most. None of them are excellent players, yet all of them are in our first 11.
really i disagree with you, sissoko is a very good buy he is gonna be one of the better cdm in the world soon, juventus and ac milan wanted to buy him, so ur just WRONG, agger has looked a quality buy and give a few years will be a very good replacement for carra, kuyt was the top scorer for the dutch eredivisie, the year beofre rafa bought him, crouch tho i do agree with you, so ur perspective isn't completely wrong

cdm?

One of the best in the world that can't pass a ball?

:laugh:

Love it!

by **dawson99** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:46 pm

Agger Crouch Kuyt Sissoko all good buys but othing supremely outstanding there.
would torres be a world class buy?

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