Liverpool FC Forum

by **Simari** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:24 pm

If there was a club willing to part with a consisent creative forward who could hold down a first team spot - in exchange for Garcia + Cash, I would for one go along with that deal.

Sabre, we can agree to disagree on this one, but my view remains that he is not good enough to fill the creative forward role for an entire league season.

By the way, it's rather easy to get League totals on goals / assists for Ronaldinho, Rooney, Tevez, Kaka. You will see that he does lag behind the first 3 - while being way more inconsistent that them. Kaka on the other hand had a miserable 06/07 season and it is well reflected in his stats and AC Milan's league position.

Let me know if you want the totals posted.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:24 pm

I would love Tevez but I think he has been priced out of our reach

Saint I know what your saying and agree with you too.

On the note of signing a a top class player, its my opinon that we've gotta do a Chelsea and blow big (excuse the expression

) on a top class player. I think thats what this Liverpool team needs at least two big signings that can and will impact on the side. There is no point in scraping the barrell anymore with people like Zenden and whoever.

Those Yanks need to get there wallets out or maybe their waiting for a better exchange rate with their greenies

by **bigmick** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:26 pm

I agree with just about all of that sabes. I just get the feeling with Xabi that as he is lacking a touch of confidence, like all players he sticks rigidly to what he does best, where he feels most comfortable. For Xabi this is recieving the ball off the full-backs and central defenders and "moving" the ball rather than passing it. Yes there has been a case that there has been less targets for him to hit (and Cisse for all the fact he was garbage offered you a big space in behind with his pace, unlike Gonzales Cisse was genuinely quick) but even so Xabi's head doesn't come up as often or as quickly as it did when he first came.
Why? well as I've said before, teams have got better at negating him. Give him space and he'll pass you off the park. I went to Fulham away a coupel fo years ago and he came on as sub when the team were 2-0 down at half-time (why was he sub? rotation of course) and completely transformed the game, Liverpool won 4-2. Give him space and he'll pass you into oblivion. So you get the centre forward to snap back in when Alonso recieves it and hey presto, you significantly reduce his effectiveness. To combat this and become the player he was for us, Xabi must set himself up to recieve the ball in different areas of the pitch. Really, he must.

by **Simari** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:28 pm

Ciggy wrote:Whats the bet Owen comes back?

I would not be surprised Ciggy.

Newcastle have Viduka, Martins, Ameobi and Owen in their striker department. I would be very surprised if Viduka signed on to take a back-seat role in that unit.

Which leaves the question about Owen and Martins. Unless Martins is headed out to another club, there doesn't seem to room for all 3 of them (that's not even talking about Ameobi!).

by **Redman in wales** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:32 pm

stmichael wrote:I'd be happy spending £20M on a quality striker Tevez, Torres, depending on what is available and buy 2 wingers for £10M, Malouda/Quaresma/Alves if there is any other cash available we could buy a back up defender. Not doing the usual quantity not quality like past seasons.

i'd be very happy with that too. the worry is that even that may not happen.

Of course its all speculation and paper talk, but all the noises at this point in time are that eto'o is staying (though we were never gonna get him anyway), utd are after tevez and we're after forlan, then Malouda could go to chelsea, alves to madrid etc... thats what the worry is.

by **bigmick** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:34 pm

stmichael wrote:Xabi's game is best when he's behind play, he can see the whole game and build the game for us, being dynamic isn't theoretically more attacking. Xabi is the brains of the team who knits the side very well together, the centre backs don't need to distribute the ball as much and more players can run instead of focusing on trying to make play as Xabi heads the distribution, so in an essence, he frees more players up. Tactically he plays deep, but thats good IMO, he gives balance and plays the "guardiola" role very well.

I don't think it's any coincidence Bigmick that he was seen as a much more attacking player in his first season as he had pace to aim for in Baros and Cisse.

I'm not for a minute suggesting Saint Mike that Xabi turns himself into a rampaging box to box engine player, far from it. You are totally correct when you point out that he is best at coming from behind the play, but he has to mix it up a bit in terms of where he goes. Over the last eighteen months or so, a good coach with a video could plot where and when Xabi is going to recieve the ball, and what he is going to do with it. It is my opinion that this is precisely what has happened, and given the fact that Alonso lacks any extra gears to get himself out of any congestion, he is going to have to reinvent the way he plays a little. He can do it, but if he contunues to play as he has been the last couple of seasons, there will not be much if any improvement in his contribution in my view.

People talk about the "unseen" stuff that he does. Well I like to think I can see most things in a game of football and for sure he is positionally very astute when defending and shields the back four very well. He is a better player though than having this as the main attribute to his game, at his best he is an imposing sight. Lately he is just another holding midfielder and he is capable of being much much better than that.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:35 pm

The main problem I have with Gerrard playing second striker is that to play that role well you need to play with your back to goal well( something Gerrard isn't good at)and play subtle 3 yard passes rather than Gerrard forte which is 30yards. When I think of Daglish at his peak, back to goal @rse sticking out, before rolling the ball into someones stride or a quick turn and smashing it into the net, its not something Gerrard could do.

Gerrard is much better coming onto the ball, playing one two's, crossing it, or passing it long. We really need a specialist for the role, Tevez would be ideal.

by **Sabre** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:40 pm

To combat this and become the player he was for us, Xabi must set himself up to recieve the ball in different areas of the pitch. Really, he must.

I've read that before from you -- we always are repeating the same points in a football forum, all of us :laugh:

Maybe he must, but I'm not sure he can. Gerrard can be comfortable upper in the pitch. Stop a ball with the chest backwards to the goal, and turn quickly and run, if another oppo player faces him, he can dribble past him.

Alonso when the striker challenges, he can do a turn, and leave the striker, but if another oppo player comes, he'll be unconfortable, because he hasn't that Gerrard's quality. That's why I think precisely he's a holding midfielder, he needs to play on front of the Defence, where there are spaces. Upper in the pitch, he struggles. And nothing will change that because he's not quick.

The only point I disagree with you is that marking Alonso properly is as easy as commanding their foward to press him. The most of times I've seen ALonso well covered has been with a combination of a forward and a midfielder of opposition both pressing him up in the pitch all the match. And that brings a hole somewhere else. Alonso upper in the pitch? not good enough for that, he needs spaces, because he lacks some features that Gerrard has, for instance.

I think that this season we've seen a combination of some heavy markings to ALonso, and some games in which, admittedly, he seemed to have the focus somewhere else. Maybe the offers, and all that.

But Alonso won't be able to be comfortable where there is a lot of oppo men, I'm afraid, and that's why it's handy to have a Mascherano, as the more situations we have foreseen, the better.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:54 pm

Think of all the great League sides , Stjohn, Dalglish, Beardsley,Bergkamp,York, Rooney and there is only Chelsea that havn't had a great second striker. (they did have Zola)

I don't honestly think Garcia is ever going to compete with those. Tevez might?

by **puroresu** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:00 pm

s@int wrote:Think of all the great League sides , Stjohn, Dalglish, Beardsley,Bergkamp,York, Rooney and there is only Chelsea that havn't had a great second striker. (they did have Zola)

I also don't honestly think Garcia is ever going to compete with those. Tevez might?

I dont think Garcia can perform that role at the required standard week in week out. A player in that role has to be very consistent and Garcia hasnt really shown he is capable of performing week in week out.

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:18 pm

I have it from an insider (can't reveal I'm afraid) that Rafa and Parry have had a major falling out over Michael Owen. Parry wants him back and Rafa doesn't.

by **Kopboyau** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:22 pm

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:I have it from an insider (can't reveal I'm afraid) that Rafa and Parry have had a major falling out over Michael Owen. Parry wants him back and Rafa doesn't.

Well if he doesn't want Owen back he needs to sign SOMEONE and quick smart before the prices go up

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:26 pm

If he doesn't want MO back he must have someone lined up My guess would be someone from Spain (most of his signings have come from there) and once La Liga is finished we will hear from the club.

by **Simari** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:40 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
In my opinion, we need a Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldinho type player who will CONSISTENTLY link up play more often than breaking down the link between midfield and attack - LG does not fit this the bill over the course of an entire League season

I think your right there to an extent, but we shouldnt get rid of him just for the sake of it. I'd like Tevez signed for the primary position that we're talking about here, but Garcia would make a a very good back up in that position. He does give the ball away alot, but like football managers told me in my younger days (I'm not that old ) you'd rather lose position up the field rather than infront of your own goal. I know goals can be scored by good sides from deep positions, but I think thats one of the things you have to accept with 'Lil Luis'. The amount of times I've burst a blood vessel watching him, or have ended up pulling my hair are numerous, but at the moment he is one of only a few who can score and assist goals from the midfield, so until we can improve on him he still has a vital part to play IMO.

Fair point, Bamaga Man.

If we can afford to have someone in the primary position, with both Luis and Leiva as backups, that would work. Luis is versatile enough to play anywhere across the attacking midfield line and so would be a good quality backup.

I like LG. Just that we need to mindful of the consistency we have to achieve in the League in order to challenge for the title - and that includes consistently being creative :grinning:

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:08 pm

Ydde wrote:No realistic targets comes to mind unfortunately, any ideas anyone?

theres a chance real betis might get relegated so maybe we can snatch daniel odonkor.
jose mari from villareal is someone i admire.
i do wonder why benitez didnt buy aimar when he was available for just 5million.
daniel carvalho from spartak moscow is actually pretty good. i remember how he tormented us in the super cup.
helder postiga? ricardo quaresma? simao? alexis sanchez? matias fernandez?

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