Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:28 pm

We all know the hardest part of football is putting the ball in the back of the net. Its also the most important part of the game, without scoring goals you can't win games.

In the past we ave been spoilt with the amazing talent that our forwards have been blessed with, until recent times we where never short of someone who could score us goals, and plenty of them.

St John, Toshack, Keegan, Dalglish, Rush, Aldridge, Fowler (in his day) and Owen. All of these made scoring look easy, all at some time appeared either at the top of the goal scoring table or close to it. But do our current strikers really compare with any on that list?

Now I know Rafa's approach is different to some of our past managers, he has said on a number of occassions he would rather have 4 or 5 players scoring 10 goals a season rather than 1 striker that scores 30, and I understand his logic. But what I see as being the missing link from Premiership Winners and also rans is a player that only needs a couple of chances a game to score a goal.

Michael Owen in particular was a master at this. The way the team was set up under Gerard Houllier meant that we made very few chances per game, but when they fell to the little fella he nomally put the ball in the net. To take an opposite view lets look at Peter Crouch. Now I am neither Crouchies biggest fan nor do I think he is garbage, but he frustrates me as he does appear to get into good positions, and have a lot of oppountunities but fails to score with most of them.

But lets not just pick on the big man. Although I do not have any real stats to back this up, if I was a betting man, I would say that this season we have had more attempts on goal than any other team in the top flight. The problem for me is we have not scored enough goals for our challenge to win the Premiership to become a reality. This could be classed as a good thing as "at least we are making chances". But for me it scares the hell out of me and makes me think that our strikers are not really doing their job.

We need a world class striker, which is why I am a little worried with the forthcoming purchase of Voronin. Admittadly I don't know too much about him, but from the information I have managed to find on tinternet, he doesn't look like a world beater.

What are your opinions of our current strike force? Do their positive points (they all have them) outweigh their rather lean return in front of goal.

Dirk Kuyt
I have not met a Liverpool fan yet that does not like him. His hard work all around the pitch is fantastic. His work rate in phenominal. He obviously gives 110% every game. But how many goals has he scored? When writing this post he has scored 10 goals in all competitions.

Craig Bellamy
He provides us with the option of playing counter attacking football as he is very quick. He niggles away and frustrates other teams (and more recently other team mates!). His goal tally this season = 8

Peter Crouch
Our highest goal scorer this year. He has netted 12 times in all competitions. Gives Liverpool the option of playing a different type of game if we are chasing a result with his hight, but is surprisingly poor with his head. Often gives away free kicks in the oppositions penalty box, but also know to score some amazing goals that his frame would make you think would make it impossible for him to score.

Robbie Fowler
Probably one of the most talented strikers in Premiership history but cannot get a game. Is he too old? Has he lost "it"? Was his signing just a clever peice of media work by Rafa? So far he has scored 5 goals this season.

Are we still missing the most important part of a winning team. A natural goal scorer?

Our defense is solid. Our midfield creates plenty of chances, although could still be improved.

Is it our forward line that is stoppping us from reaching our 19th League title?

by **EddieC** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:40 pm

I'm sure we've had a couple of threads on this before

To answer the question though, yes our lack of an out and out goalscorer has been holding us back. The problem is though, as goalscoring is the main talent that strikers are assessed on, anyone who's banging them in is gonna cost £20m+, money we haven't had. Now we have the money, I'd expect to see a 'fox in the box' type player coming in the summer, it's the one area of the pitch where buying cheap just won't do if you wanna compete.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:42 pm

I know this doesn't sit well with some Liverpool fans but I truly believe we lost our "true goalscorer" when Michael Owen left. Even after his injury when he lost a significant portion of his pace he still provided more goals than every other striker we have had since.

Obviously a Michael Owen return is a pipe dream but replacing what we lost must come from investing in quality, a proven goalscorer of exceptional ability.

by **stmichael** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:44 pm

I said recently that stats are often manipulated and used out of context, but in such cases as these they do serve some constructive purpose. I don't believe, based on what I already know, and what I've found, that this magical "20 goal a season" striker is absoultely essential in reaching your targets. However, a team that overpowers, and beats it's opposition comfortably, definitely is.

This might surprise a few people here, but our strikers are doing almost identically to Utd's. Yet man utd have scored about 20 goals more. Our top League scorer is Kuyt with 9. Theirs is Rooney with 10. Next for us is Bellamy with 7. They have Saha on 8. Crouch is on 6 for us, with solskjaer also on 6.

Infact, Drogba, ironically, is far and away the biggest source of goals for his team of any of the top clubs, yet Chelsea are having their least productive season for three years. Arsenal have 2 games in hand over us, yet have scored 6 goals more, despite only being in fourth place. Even Reading have outscored us so far. Scoring's definitely not something we do freely yet. Though just attributing that to the strikers is somewhat unfair.

Now it's difficult to use such stats to prove any one thing for certain... however, one thing that really should stand out, as it did for me, is the inconsistency of it all.

That's where the answer lies in my opinion.

Drogba has scored 17 goals.... chelsea are in second....henry and van persie have scored 20 between them, arsenal are in fourth, man utd have scored shitloads, but their top scoring striker has only the same amount as ours...

None of it means a thing..... except this - the top teams are the ones that do well overall.

Man utd, out of all the clubs mentioned, are the only ones who's displays week in week out are constantly overwhelming opponents. Put simply, their goals are coming from everywhere. Ronaldo has chipped in with an amazing 15 so far, taking the tally for Utd's midfielders to 30 goals. More than double our paltry tally of 13. Add to that the decent contributions of rooney, saha, and solskjaer, and that's why you're looking at the probable league winners for 2007.

If Ronaldo is still at utd next season, I don't expect him to equal his goal scoring feats of this. But when he goes off the boil, Rooney has all the talent to make an equally impressive contribution, and if he's not firing on full cylinders, then scholes or saha are always likely to make something happen.

Put simply, if you rely on one aspect of your team to provide, you're always likely to hit a bump in the road when they don't step up. We need all round quality. Something we still don't have. And especially we need quality out on either flank.

In my opinion, our strikers are good quality, but the attention placed on them missing a chance or two is far greater because, as you say, there are less likely contributors elsewhere. Garcia being injured is obviously a massive blow for us because you could always guarantee him getting double figures in the goalscoring stakes every season.

I bet man utd have won a fair few games by one goal instead of two because rooney or saha's missed a sitter.

Kuyt or Bellamy do that and it's a draw or a loss unfortunately.

That's the difference between champions and also rans.

Liverpool

Crouch - 13 (6 prem, 1 league cup, 6 european/other)
Kuyt - 10 (9 prem, 1 league cup)
Bellamy - 8 (7 prem, 1 european/other)
Fowler - 5 (1 prem, 2 league cup, 2 european/other)

Total Goals From Strikers = 36 (23 prem)

Arsenal

Henry - 12 (10 prem, 1 FA, 1 Euro/other)
Van Persie - 13 (11 prem, 2 Euro/other)
Baptista - 7 (0 prem, 6 league cup, 1 euro/other)
Adebeyor - 10 (6 prem, 2 FA, 2 LEague Cup)

Total = 42 (27 prem)

Manchester United

Rooney - 12 (10 prem, 2 FA)
Saha - 12 (8 Prem, 4 Euro Other)
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer - 9 (6 Prem, 1 fa, 1 LC, 1 euro/other)
Larson - 2 (1 league, 1 FA)

total = 35 (25 prem)

Chelsea

Kalou - 3 (2 prem, 1 league cup)
drogba - 26 (17prem, 2 fa, 2 league cup, 5 euro/other)
Shevchenko - 10 (3 prem, 2 FA, 3LEague cup, 2Euro/other)

Total = 39 (22 prem)

I still firmly believe though that one clinical finisher with a bit of pace added to the squad would make a huge difference. I like Villa but ultimately Rafa will make his choice. If you add a creative wide man who can cross and score some goals it would be a massive addition. Man U have got 16 goals this year from their first pick right winger we have got 1. Just my opinion!

by **Elchris** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:51 pm

i wish fowler was gettin more games...but itz too late now surely the last season for him at liverpool

we brought in veronin to replace him i think..so he's goona be a squad player gettin ocasional game and yes rite now we need a cylinical finisher i'm confident we'll get a world class striker in the summer..eto would be perfect and we need quality wingers...!!

by **kopite_1232002** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:55 pm

if u want to win the premiership u need to have a striker who is goin to score you 20+ goals a seasson

man utd had rudd, now ronaldo is bangin them in
arsenal , henry
chelski , drogba
blackburn, Shearer

but i cant see rafa bringin in a striker in the summer,

by **Elchris** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:57 pm

i think our striker played more games then the other stikers from diff team

by **stmichael** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:59 pm

kopite_1232002 wrote:if u want to win the premiership u need to have a striker who is goin to score you 20+ goals a seasson

tell me exactly which striker scored 20+ goals for chelsea in the last two seasons? lampard's been their top scorer 3 years in a row and he's a midfielder.

by **azriahmad** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:23 pm

Kuyt is capable of scoring 20+ goals a season, only if he does not have to drop deep trying to find the ball. If we have real wingers who can actually beat people and put in decent crosses, leave Kuyt to what he doies best and Kuyt will deliver and do the business, as he had done at his previous clubs. Kuyt can do the lot and he works so very hard for the team.

Bellamy and Crouch will never give that kind of return.

by **puroresu** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:26 pm

Henry would have had more than that if he wasnt injured.

by **A.B.** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:28 pm

What StMick ''said'' earlier is true.

Utd got rid of one of the biggest poachers in football in the last decade or so, and they're having one of the best seasons in years.

You don't necessarily need a 20 goal a season striker. Chelsea did without one for two years, but they had players scoring from the back four to the front men. They weren't depending on one primary source to get them the goals. If Fat Frank wasn't scoring then Duff or Robben were and so on. At times they play like any one of them could score and that has happened in the last two seasons.

Utd are doing the same thing. I believe that only Gary Neville hasn't scored a goal in the Premiership in Utd's starting XI. That's quite remarkable. Even when they don't have Ronaldo or Rooney in the squad, someone else picks up where they left off and scores that important goal.

Chelsea this season for the first time will have a striker that has scored 20 goals plus in all competitions. Yet they're struggling but that's down to the fact that Lampard and Drogba have been their top two goalscorers and they're depending too much on them.

Benitez is trying to do the same thing but not enough of our midfielders and defenders are scoring compared to Utd and Chelsea [previous seasons].

by **puroresu** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:31 pm

A.B. wrote:What StMick ''said'' earlier is true.

Utd got rid of one of the biggest poachers in football in the last decade or so, and they're having one of the best seasons in years.

You don't necessarily need a 20 goal a season striker. Chelsea did without one for two years, but they had players scoring from the back four to the front men. They weren't depending on one primary source to get them the goals. If Fat Frank wasn't scoring then Duff or Robben were and so on. At times they play like any one of them could score and that has happened in the last two seasons.

Utd are doing the same thing. I believe that only Gary Neville hasn't scored a goal in the Premiership in Utd's starting XI. That's quite remarkable. Even when they don't have Ronaldo or Rooney in the squad, someone else picks up where they left off and scores that important goal.

Chelsea this season for the first time will have a striker that has scored 20 goals plus in all competitions. Yet they're struggling but that's down to the fact that Lampard and Drogba have been their top two goalscorers and they're depending too much on them.

Benitez is trying to do the same thing but not enough our midfielders and defenders are scoring compared to Utd and Chelsea [previous seasons].

Utd have always had goals from everywhere though. Rudd was never the only one scoring. Scholes used to chip in with 10+, Beckham and Giggs would score goals.

by **A.B.** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:36 pm

puroresu wrote:
A.B. wrote:What StMick ''said'' earlier is true.

Utd got rid of one of the biggest poachers in football in the last decade or so, and they're having one of the best seasons in years.

You don't necessarily need a 20 goal a season striker. Chelsea did without one for two years, but they had players scoring from the back four to the front men. They weren't depending on one primary source to get them the goals. If Fat Frank wasn't scoring then Duff or Robben were and so on. At times they play like any one of them could score and that has happened in the last two seasons.

Utd are doing the same thing. I believe that only Gary Neville hasn't scored a goal in the Premiership in Utd's starting XI. That's quite remarkable. Even when they don't have Ronaldo or Rooney in the squad, someone else picks up where they left off and scores that important goal.

Chelsea this season for the first time will have a striker that has scored 20 goals plus in all competitions. Yet they're struggling but that's down to the fact that Lampard and Drogba have been their top two goalscorers and they're depending too much on them.

Benitez is trying to do the same thing but not enough our midfielders and defenders are scoring compared to Utd and Chelsea [previous seasons].

Utd have always had goals from everywhere though. Rudd was never the only one scoring. Scholes used to chip in with 10+, Beckham and Giggs would score goals.

Not in the last three or four years mate.

Ronaldo is having the best season of his career. Scholes is scoring more than he has in recent years and Giggs looks like he's in his 20's. A lot more of their players have stepped up to the plate this year and taken off the burden from the strikers.

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:36 pm

I agree that we could do with a penalty box striker....(although i still think Kuyt can do that)

But its the wide areas that are stopping us ripping teams to shreds, our wide players are not in the same league as the likes of Robben, Ronaldo, Rosicky or Giggs, if our wide midfielders contributed more goals and were more positive the strikers would benefit so much.
I really think if we signed a top draw striker left winger and right winger we would be far more creative and give the opposition so many more problems.
Villa, Alves and someone like Vicente, who has had his injuries but seems to have lost his regular place to Silva.

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:40 pm

I understand what everyone is saying about the other big 3 scoring goals right through the team. But my big concern is the amount of chances we are creating without scoring goals.

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