Liverpool FC Forum

by **Lionheart** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:07 am

I know I'll get slammed and flamed for this but I think there is no alternative but for Rafa to go. He can't be enjoying himself and he must be begging for the quiet life in Spain or Italy (in comparrison to England).

Rafa just can't seem to come to terms with the English game. He's fine for the Europe matches but be it the pace or intensity of the English game, he just can't seem to manage it. I don't believe it's a lack of playing personnel as the Liverpool lineup is something another coach would drool over.

While the away game scenario is becoming quite comical if it wasn't so depressing and humiliating. Heaven knows how the players, and Rafa, must be feeling.

Don't get me wrong, I think Rafa is a brilliant tactician but not at the English game.

I think we need an English coach or at least someone with a proven English record.

by **Scottbot** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:14 am

Lionheart, you're posts are usually pretty measured and makes some sense but this is simply nonsensical. If winning the European Cup and then the Fa Cup plus a League Cup final appearance and our best league points total in god knows how long doens't buy you a bit of time then i don't know what does. It's a ridiculous thread. If you were Moores or Parry you'd actually sack the manager?

by **Scottbot** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:16 am

Lionheart wrote:While the away game scenario is becoming quite comical if it wasn't so depressing and humiliating.

Away losses to Chelsea, Everton, bolton and the mancs isn't comical, it sucks but it's hardly comical.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:17 am

consider yourself slammed Lionheart! He did pretty good in the league and cup last season didnt he ?
A couple of his new players havent started to shine, and a few of his star players have struggled and now Rafa should go? No mate, just see where we are come May.

ps get your earmuffs ready just in case your mate Lando sees this thread!

by **Scottbot** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:18 am

Lionheart wrote:Rafa just can't seem to come to terms with the English game.

So what was going on last season? did you hold the same opinion then, or did you think that Rafa had quite clearly come to terms with the english game at that time?

by **Kop man Jon** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:22 am

I stand in the Kop for every game i can make and have to say that being at the game often portrays a different game than the one we read and see on tv. (there and too many if's and buts / action replays etc compared to the real thing, actually standing there and living the moment).
What i am trying to waffle out is that i can often get very frustrated with several players and in my view Agger has been head and shoulders above everyone else which begs the question why cant the other (more complete and experienced) players be performing at aggers standards. (agger has won a player of the month award which the rest have yet to get anywhere near to achieving).
So i wont slate your comments as i share your frustrations, but from reading what rafa says, he continuosly encourages his players in public, but i feel 7 ot 8 (no joke) are badley letting him down.

Plus i'd also like to say that if we can give the new boys time (and seeing as its been donkeys since we've lifted the title thus i think wee should give these players a year to settle into rafas revolution) then there will be no better attacking and defensive force in the prem.

by **Lionheart** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:46 am

First of all, I'm not putting forward my opinions just to stir up trouble nor to get into any spats with anyone. I'm just getting something off my chest. Undoubtedly, some won't agree...some might. Frankly, I don't care either way. :;):

Yes, it's comical when you look at our chances for a match and the deciding factor becomes if the game is being played at home or away. It's equally as 'comical' (maybe ironical would be a better word) when opposing teams see us a 'beatable' if we are playing away from our home. If that's not comical then it's tragic...

And it sure as hell isn't the players. There are many squads with a far 'lesser' squad who are winning games that we stumble and fall over. It's part of the manager's responsibility to get these players into the right frame of mind so they are willing to give 100% or more. I remember some of the LFC player ready to give their lives for the manager (tongue in cheek...)

I don't give a toss about LAST season, except to say it's great to win these things but that is now history. We can bask in the glory or we can go on to create more glory. A team is only as good as it's last match. I'm more interested in THIS year. Last year's results give me a warm glow when I'm chatting with my Man. Utd & Chelsea mates and I can brag about how great Liverpool are. Then I walk out into the sunlight of TODAY and it isn't too warm.

What have we won this year?? What are we likely to win this year?? Yes, we might still be in the loop but it sure as hell doesn't seem too likely.

Don't worry, I'm still firmly planted in my seat on the Liverpool bandwaggon. Just as I've been for the past 40 years...and THAT sure as hell, won't change.

I can still have my grizzle, whinge, whine & cry, if I want to. :grinning:

(Lando's just a big pussy. Besides it takes two to argue). :laugh:

by **Rafa D** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:46 am

Biting my lip...

by **Espionage** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:56 am

Thought that this was thread was going to be loaded with sarcasm.....

I believe that we have one of the undistputed top 5 coaches in the world at the moment. Maybe he might be better suited to Spain as he knows it better but I think that we should be kissing his :censored:

trying to get him to stay for as long as possible and enjoy every minute of it. I garuntee that when we finally do lose Rafa it will be to a weaker Manager. I just hope that his stay is a long one.

by **jonnymac1979** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:10 am

Lionheart, I really don't agree with you mate that Rafa should go. Not one bit. He's got my ultimate 100% backing, something I couldn't say about his predecessor.

When that Houllier clown left the club back in 2004, I honestly admit I knew nothing about Benitez (...done some MAJOR reading up on him since...), but yes, I knew how strong Valencia were. That season they won the UEFA Cup, I distinctly remember looking at the draw back in December 2003. I worked for Ladbrokes at the time you see and obviously you get to see where value lies, and Valencia were priced at 6/1 to win the competition which was a fucking steal. They were clearly the strongest team in the competition at that point, and as a distant follower of Spanish football, I saw how they could grind teams down into submission. Plus they had absolutely murdered us in the European Cup previously to that. Rafa did all that.

Nothing has changed in my opinion. Sure, we've had a pretty poor start to the season after all the hype, but I have absolute confidence that Rafa can pull us out of this slump.

To talk of him leaving is wide of the mark, he deserves (and not mentioning the fact he has EARNT) the backing of every single fan of Liverpool Football Club. Also the fact that at this moment in time, every club in the world would take Rafa, and we have him. Who would replace him? Alan fucking Curbishley? Benitez comfortably sits in the bracket with the likes of Scolari, Hiddink, Mourinho, Lippi and Capello. The fucking top bracket. The cream. Why would you give that up?

Interesting to see how this thread develops, but I'd wager you won't find many agreeing with you on this. Can't believe I'm participating in a "Rafa Out" thread a year and a bit after Istanbul, and six months after Cardiff....

Bottom line: I have to disagree with you wholeheartedly on this....

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:50 am

While you don't give a toss about last season, it does show that Rafa can handle the English game (which was your main complaint).

The point I would be raising if I was worried about Rafa's abilities would be about his man management, motivational skills,and the players attitude to league games. Maybe they arnt raising themselves enough for the league as we seem to do OK in the cups.

I remember Houllier blaming the foreign players for raising their game for the cups, but not the league.

As I have no worries about Rafa's abilities, I have to blame the players.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:54 am

I'm not goin g to launch into the tirade I would normally, as Lionheart has made it quite clear he doesn't like me to.

I will be diplomatic:

I totally, wholeheartedly and absolutely disagree 5,000%.

Rafa is the best manager in the World, and his record proves that.

We are 2 points off 3rd place at the begining of December, we are through to the knockout stages of the Champions' League, and we're still in every competition we have entered.

1 Big ears, 1 FA Cup, our record points haul, our record-breaking runs, the Super Cup and Charity Sheild earn Rafa the right to time.

And I honestly cannot see any other logical step.

by **el_stinger** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:05 am

Lionheart wrote:I know I'll get slammed and flamed for this but I think there is no alternative but for Rafa to go. He can't be enjoying himself and he must be begging for the quiet life in Spain or Italy (in comparrison to England).

Rafa just can't seem to come to terms with the English game. He's fine for the Europe matches but be it the pace or intensity of the English game, he just can't seem to manage it. I don't believe it's a lack of playing personnel as the Liverpool lineup is something another coach would drool over.

While the away game scenario is becoming quite comical if it wasn't so depressing and humiliating. Heaven knows how the players, and Rafa, must be feeling.

Don't get me wrong, I think Rafa is a brilliant tactician but not at the English game.

I think we need an English coach or at least someone with a proven English record.

A typical response from a typical Australian Bandwagon Supporter!!

I bet you went for Sydney last year, and now your a West Coast fan this year!

:no

Think before you post mate, your an absolute embarrassment!

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:11 am

el_stinger wrote:
Lionheart wrote:I know I'll get slammed and flamed for this but I think there is no alternative but for Rafa to go. He can't be enjoying himself and he must be begging for the quiet life in Spain or Italy (in comparrison to England).

Rafa just can't seem to come to terms with the English game. He's fine for the Europe matches but be it the pace or intensity of the English game, he just can't seem to manage it. I don't believe it's a lack of playing personnel as the Liverpool lineup is something another coach would drool over.

While the away game scenario is becoming quite comical if it wasn't so depressing and humiliating. Heaven knows how the players, and Rafa, must be feeling.

Don't get me wrong, I think Rafa is a brilliant tactician but not at the English game.

I think we need an English coach or at least someone with a proven English record.

A typical response from a typical Australian Bandwagon Supporter!!

I bet you went for Sydney last year, and now your a West Coast fan this year!

Think before you post mate, your an absolute embarrassment!

i dont think there is any reason for that mate, he is just giving an opinion, he is not ranting or being abusive, and he also gives his reasons. maybe you an also give a reason why you disagree, or do you just disagree because he is australian?

by **Lionheart** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:21 am

JMac, firstly thank you for the level respect offered rather than giving me a verbal blast. That is appreciated more than you know. I am pleased to sit down and have a 'discussion' rather than defend myslef in a yelling match. How human, how fresh and original.

I knew when I started this topic that it wasn't going to sit comfortably with many of the fans on here and that's ok, we can agree to disagree if it comes down to it. Ego's generally don't allow this to happen though.

JMac you raise some very poignant and valid points. No doubt nearly any team in the world would be happy to take on Rafa and they would be lucky to have him, but would he do any better with any other team? I would contend that as long as it wasn't an English team thjat he would.

There is no game anywhere in the world as hard and as fast as the English game. Sometimes watching it, leaves you exhausted. Rafa is a thoroughly patient, reflective person (from what I can see and not knowing the guy I must go on what I can summise) and would run rings around even the best tactical coaches in the world but the English game doesn't allow that slow, reflective consideration...in some ways reactions must be spontaneous, and this is where Rafa seems to struggle.

Maybe it's just that I don't have your unwavering trust Jonny and I am fearful that we are going to be underdone in the title again. I want to see us take the Premiership more than I want the FA Cup, League Cup or even the Champion's League. These are all great but not as satisfying...a bit like Chinese food. It's tastes great going down but half an hour later you're hungry again. It just doesn't satisfy.

The flip side of the coin is that I don't want to see any harm come to Rafa's reputation. He's seems to be a nice guy, modest, not inflated by his self importance (unlike the moaning Maureen, The Cranky Scotsman or the arrogant frenchman), willing to reflect the glory onto his players etc. (this probably doesn't hold much water in terms of winning titles, etc.) and I would hate to see his reputation take a nose dive then finish up in some backwater team trying to reestablish him reputation.

Sack?? No... he needs to leave with pride intact.

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