Liverpool FC Forum

by **taff** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:11 pm

remember the zonal marking debate, the media saying how confused we look in defence and hints that Rafa doesnt know what he's doing or this is the premiership not Spain etc. Well didnt we become one of the meanest defences in the league last season.

Now its rotation as the argument with people getting upset with the start to the season, too many players etc. While Im not delighted with the start the pragmatic part of me will take it. We say In Rafa we trust and I will. I have faith in him to turn the team into a better version of valencia. Mean defence with wave after wave of attacking football with plenty of possibilities and options for sure

We could have had the same season, maybe a cup, second in the league, good progress etc etc. We have gambled and gone up to the next level, this guy knows what he is doing and its small stages of progress, whatever happens this season we have the best manager in the league and I cant wait to see what we play like in the second half of the season

by **sworth26** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:32 pm

Couldn't agree more!

by **CousinIT** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:37 pm

I disagree. We had a great defence last year granted. But look at the goals we DID concede. Either from corners or free kicks because of zonal marking. Not many teams carved us open but almost every side we faced got chances from set peices and just because the statisics say we didn't concede to many doesn't hide the fact that we did give chances away from set peices and that is down to the zonal marking.

by **crazyhorse** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:50 pm

Granted but man marking has distinct disadvantages as well.

No defensive system is going to be 100% watertight, we may conceed a few goals from set pieces but the defence excels in other areas.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:29 pm

CousinIT wrote:I disagree. We had a great defence last year granted. But look at the goals we DID concede. Either from corners or free kicks because of zonal marking. Not many teams carved us open but almost every side we faced got chances from set peices and just because the statisics say we didn't concede to many doesn't hide the fact that we did give chances away from set peices and that is down to the zonal marking.

Well 29 clean sheets says different mate.

I bet we conceded less goals from set pieces than any other side in the Premiership, with the possible exception of Sh*tski.

by **taff** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:39 am

29 clean sheets aint a bad argument.

In an interview recently Rafa said his Valencia team were a better team so I figure he is still working on perfecting this, but rest assured he means team(squad) first. We are in it for the long haul

by **Espionage** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:55 am

Great article on Liverpoolfc.tv, I generally like most of Paul Tomkins articles: http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG153461060913-1429.htm

I am sick to death of hearing about how big a problem we have with it, and how we always look shakey........... our record doesnt lie!
If we are not conceding then i dont see the problem

I cant wait until Tomkins does one of these for the whole "squad rotation problem" :blues:

by **Ciggy** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:34 am

This is not about the zonal marking, but the problem I feel we have now is that our team looks alien infact it doesnt look like our team atall.
That game against PSV we had Finnan, Carra and Warnock who has hardly had a decent run in the squad either due to injury.
You find yourself looking at them and thinking is this Liverpool?

I still cant get over the fact Bellamy, or Pennant play for us.
Not that they arnt good players but its just I suppose you get attatched to certain individuals like Hamann.

All the deadwood has now gone apart from Diao :glare:

We have an awful lot of players maybe to many?
But when players have a really good performance and then get dropped the next game you have to think that they will get p.issed off at sometime in the season.

And think why try my best when I will be dropped the next game if you understand where Im coming from.

Against PSV we should have played Gerrard, and Alonso then made the changes in the second half, we would have come away with a win that I am sure of.

And I think if Rafa had of known how poor PSV was then I am sure he would have done things different.

by **The_Rock** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:26 am

Ciggy wrote:And think why try my best when I will be dropped the next game if you understand where Im coming from.

Couldn't have put it better myself...Thats the main problem now....

Players give 100% because they know if they play well, they will still be in the team...

But now, with this massive rotation policy..... why would the players give 100% if they knew they will be dropped the next game ? In the long-run, do u think the players will be "on the toes" if they accept that being dropped is part and parcel of rafa's team...?

I like rafa for most of the stuff he does, but this rotation policy simply will not work if he drops gerrard for zendan or if he drops our best mobile strikers (ie...... either kujt/bellamy).

When we went on a match winning streak (last season), we did it with a settled squad.... Why then are we going back to the rotation policy ?

If it works in spain, doesn't mean it has to work here....example MORIENTES.

by **NiftyNeil** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:08 am

As Espionage has already said, there is a cracking article on zonal marking by Paul Tomkins on the .tv website today.
It always winds me up when commentators mention our zonal marking system if we concede from a set piece.
Nobody ever mentions the man marking system when other teams concede. It's always a fault of an individual, and not the system. :angry:

by **sworth26** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:30 am

I'm still not convinced that the team will be rotated as much as is currently. We've an incredibly tough month coming up and I think coupled with the fact that we are still tentatively introducing new players into action, is a more likely explaination for the regular alterations to the starting 11.

I think Rafa is slightly unsure as to who plays best with who for certain types of games etc...

by **Espionage** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:20 am

NiftyNeil wrote:As Espionage has already said, there is a cracking article on zonal marking by Paul Tomkins on the .tv website today.
It always winds me up when commentators mention our zonal marking system if we concede from a set piece.
Nobody ever mentions the man marking system when other teams concede. It's always a fault of an individual, and not the system.

Another example of Rafa not being afraid to be the one taking the blame, he could have just left things how they are. But no, he decides to make a controvertial choice striving to improve our team.
Nobody cares if you get scored on while playing a man to man defense and its always a fault of a player, if you dont think its a fault of a player in zonal marking then you dont know very much about zonal marking.

by **Espionage** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:22 am

sworth26 wrote:I'm still not convinced that the team will be rotated as much as is currently. We've an incredibly tough month coming up and I think coupled with the fact that we are still tentatively introducing new players into action, is a more likely explaination for the regular alterations to the starting 11.

I think Rafa is slightly unsure as to who plays best with who for certain types of games etc...

Sorry i opened up a can of worms with my statement earlier, lets keep this discussion in the "chopping and changing...." thread.
:upside:

by **gato_busta** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:53 am

The_Rock wrote:
Ciggy wrote:And think why try my best when I will be dropped the next game if you understand where Im coming from.

Couldn't have put it better myself...Thats the main problem now....

Players give 100% because they know if they play well, they will still be in the team...

But now, with this massive rotation policy..... why would the players give 100% if they knew they will be dropped the next game ? In the long-run, do u think the players will be "on the toes" if they accept that being dropped is part and parcel of rafa's team...?

I like rafa for most of the stuff he does, but this rotation policy simply will not work if he drops gerrard for zendan or if he drops our best mobile strikers (ie...... either kujt/bellamy).

When we went on a match winning streak (last season), we did it with a settled squad.... Why then are we going back to the rotation policy ?

If it works in spain, doesn't mean it has to work here....example MORIENTES.

Rafa will always use the players he thinks will be useful in different matches. Why should they give 100% always? To play in the big games. Its not the same to be selected to play against chelsea, manure, arsenal or the later games in the champions league than playing against mid to low table teams. The players should know that so they will be competing to take part in the good games and to play as many games as possible.

by **MASTER** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:12 am

Will people on here actually use the club website.
have a look at the paul tomkins column for this past week and he says the stats show lfc conceded just 4 goals from free kick crosses and corners combined the least in the premiership last season and no one scored direct from a free kick or corner last season.

so clive tyldesly should have a look at the facts.

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Zonal marking - Argument rotation

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