Liverpool FC Forum

by **anfieldadorer** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:41 pm

stu_the_red wrote:
anfieldadorer wrote:MINUTES PER GOAL
1 Rossi (Man Utd) 47
2 Ashton (West Ham) 92

i know stu, sometimes stats look stupid

by **tubby** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:04 pm

He is good striker but i just feel the english game is way to much for him to deal with. In Spain and France where hes played its not as physical and more sikly and tricky so he was able to find spaces easily on the ground and in the air.

Having said that he played fine against Chelsea when he helped knock them out at Monaco a few years ago. Or perhaps hes just had his day and its time for him to go back to Spain. Either way i think Rafa will deal with the problem in he summer. Its not like he doesnt try for us and I do like the guy but he just not putting the chances away.

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:12 pm

He's Cisse from Indonesia I think!

Your IP address and MAC address looks like from S.E.A. Please dont "push" me too far. Here we talk about Liverpool and I do belived that you want Liverpool to be better team than other teams around the world . OK brother ...

by **Sabre** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:15 pm

He is good striker but i just feel the english game is way to much for him to deal with. In Spain and France where hes played its not as physical and more sikly and tricky so he was able to find spaces easily on the ground and in the air

You (lot) repeat this often. But then we won 1-2 in Betis (due to their innocence of being newbies) and 0-0 against them in Anfield. If that was true, Premiership teams should win with ease games against Spanish teams, but on the contrary, they are nice games to watch and quite balanced games.

Many things to comment about BM's post, but a trojan has entered the network and I must do some cleaning. I'll post later.

by **babu** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:36 pm

bigmick wrote:
Sabre wrote:In my opinion our strikers movements are not at their free will. The question would be, do you think that if Morientes gets out of the box often, is due to he wants to do that, or due to he's told to do that by Rafa? I think it's the latter, but I'd love to read what you lot think about it.

Broadly Sabes strikers will stay in the box all game if the opposition defends deep enough to allow them to do so. I don't think we have an issue with balls being pinged into the area with no strikers there to finish them off, it's just that the strikers are not in the right places/moving in the right areas to give themselves the maximum chance of getting on the end of anything.
There is always potentially going to be a problem for Morientes if he is paired upfront with Crouch/Fowler as neither he nor they have an ounce of pace between them. Given the opportunity, defending teams will empty the box (for less experienced fans, rush out after a free/kick corner has been cleared) as quickly as they can and defend as high up the pitch as is humanly possible aswell. These three do afford that potential and teams are fully willing and able to take the chance while it's there. If he is paired with Crouch in particular, teams actively seek the opportunity to ensure the big fella is as far away from the penalty area as they can before they have to deal with the second ball. It maybe because of this that Morientes appears not to spend as much time in the box as at his previous clubs.
I don't think it's a question of coaching, although compared to the Spanish or rench leaues a forward in England would be expected and encouraged to forage and close down more.

To answer Effes point about over analysis and football being a simple game I think you have to look a little deeper. Football is in essence a simple game but to give yourself a chance of success you have to perform certain key points correctly. In the case of a striker, if he stands around in the area all season and doesn't move one iota, sooner or later the ball will drop favourably to him and he will score. If like Cisse he has a shot every time he gets within 30 yards of the goal and blasts it as hard as he can, sooner or later he will score a goal.

Here's one though and apologies if it's a touch technical. Imagine you are a striker and a corner comes over. You are marked (the defender is goalside). The ball ricochets in your direction. How big is the area in which the ball has to fall to make you favourite to get there first and get a shot away? Half a square yard maybe? What if, as the ball is contested in the air you take a backward couple of steps away from the defender. Now when it ricochets how big is your area now? Maybe 2 square yards. Last one, say you backtrack three or four yards from the fella who is marking you as the ball is being contested in the air. As it ricochets you get your momentum moving forward on the burst. Now you're looking for the ball to bounce anywhere in front of you within three or four yards. Anywhere there and you're favourite to get it. Over analysis? maybe but the strikers who do it right, what I call getting themselves open in the box the most score the most goals.

I'll finish with an example. FA cup final, Arsenal 1-0 Liverpool. Corner, scramble, ball kept alive. Babbel (I think) heads the ball back in and a whole rafty of players go for the bouncing ball. They all take a swing at it but one gets there a fraction of a second before the throng, BAM! 1-1. Luck? Don't think so mate. Fox in the box, over analysis, call it what you like but good strikers do that. Whether or not the ball comes to them or not, when you watch the really good ones you know that they will score goals. You don't get that feeling with any of ours with the possible and notable exception of Fowler.

thanks bigmick

:buttrock

by **wee_boi888** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:44 pm

LiverpoolMadman wrote:
He's Cisse from Indonesia I think!

Your IP address and MAC address looks like from S.E.A. Please dont "push" me too far. Here we talk about Liverpool and I do belived that you want Liverpool to be better team than other teams around the world . OK brother ...

Yeah your right

From the land of kangaroo's actually. But don't go on spewing :censored:

. Back up your claims with something concise. Also i read elsewhere that you like tomato faced fergie. If you are a real Liverpool fan you'd realis how much of a mofo he is.

And also, whats location got to do with it? Im an Aussie, Im pretty sure you are an Indonesian. We got many poms ere, and a few core scousers as well. Liverpool fans are all around the globe, but we follow the club, we respect our manager and players, but it is important that you follow the club for its own culture and ethos. So don't get all defencive on me or saying to people not to push you or anything. You have your opinion yes, and its been said by you many a time. But unless you find any more valid reasons then stfu.

If you were to just have one good post I'm sure many other frum users will be pleasantly suprised.

Should you not post unless it is worth contributing something? I think yes, what about you?

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:50 pm

wee_boi888 wrote:
LiverpoolMadman wrote:
He's Cisse from Indonesia I think!

Your IP address and MAC address looks like from S.E.A. Please dont "push" me too far. Here we talk about Liverpool and I do belived that you want Liverpool to be better team than other teams around the world . OK brother ...

Yeah your right

From the land of kangaroo's actually. But don't go on spewing . Back up your claims with something concise. Also i read elsewhere that you like tomato faced fergie. If you are a real Liverpool fan you'd realis how much of a mofo he is.

And also, whats location got to do with it? Im an Aussie, Im pretty sure you are an Indonesian. We got many poms ere, and a few core scousers as well. Liverpool fans are all around the globe, but we follow the club, we respect our manager and players, but it is important that you follow the club for its own culture and ethos. So don't get all defencive on me or saying to people not to push you or anything. You have your opinion yes, and its been said by you many a time. But unless you find any more valid reasons then stfu.

If you were to just have one good post I'm sure many other frum users will be pleasantly suprised.

Should you not post unless it is worth contributing something? I think yes, what about you?

by **stoney** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:55 pm

wee_boi888 wrote:If you were to just have one good post I'm sure many other forum users will be pleasantly suprised.

I know I would.

by **bbw** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:40 pm

Effes wrote:I've been thinking along these lines;

Rafa is big on tactics, but how much of that quells the creativity up-front?

Also, can we afford to sell Nando AND Cisse in the Summer?
Say, at most, Nando £3M + Cisse £6M - gives us £9M to add to our funds to get two more strikers plus a right midfielder.

Unfortunately, like most things in life, this comes down to economics. Fiscally speaking, it is wise for Rafa to play Cisse as an upturn in his form will amount to a rise in his market value over the Summer.

Importantly too, if Cisse is chosen to play in the World Cup and his performance is good, then his market value rises further. These are harsh realities, I know, but this is how it is.

I think Cisse will unquestionably go in the Summer. I don't think he is settled and I think both parties will be happy with this. But in the meantime, he will be treated with an eye on his market value.

by **Ace Ventura** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:52 pm

One thing that none of these Cisse supporters have taken into account is the impact he has made as a sub.
He is one of the quickest players in the premiership if not Europe, but i cant remember one game where he has come on and made a big impact. He may be forced to play on the right at times when he comes on but he still should be busting a gut to make an impact...but he doesnt he comes on with a sulk on his face and in know way hides the fact that he's p!ssed off.
If i was manager or a fellow player that would f'ck me right off.

by **115-1139928290** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:00 pm

Anyone notice how we have so many spanish supporters these days;where are the frenchies who were here on the days of houllier

by **dawson99** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:03 pm

allo allo

i ave alwayz, ow u say? beeen a strong follower of ze liverpool team, zey are, ow you say, tres bien :blues:

it always happens, but i like the spanish, always liked the footballers, and have backed them non stop to win the world cup. the mori thing annoys me so much as i know hes a good player, we all know it, but he hasnt shown it

by **bbw** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:07 pm

dawson99 wrote:allo allo
i ave alwayz, ow u say? beeen a strong follower of ze liverpool team, zey are, ow you say, tres bien

it always happens, but i like the spanish, always liked the footballers, and have backed them non stop to win the world cup. the mori thing annoys me so much as i know hes a good player, we all know it, but he hasnt shown it

Lol.

Re: Nando. It could be that he responds poorly to pressure. Some players are at their best when under pressure, but others collapse under the weight. Maybe he needs to be relieved of the need to score goals in order to score goals, if you catch my drift. It is obvious that he really wants to do well for the club.

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:07 pm

Yeah your right

From the land of kangaroo's actually. But don't go on spewing . Back up your claims with something concise. Also i read elsewhere that you like tomato faced fergie. If you are a real Liverpool fan you'd realis how much of a mofo he is.

And also, whats location got to do with it? Im an Aussie, Im pretty sure you are an Indonesian. We got many poms ere, and a few core scousers as well. Liverpool fans are all around the globe, but we follow the club, we respect our manager and players, but it is important that you follow the club for its own culture and ethos. So don't get all defencive on me or saying to people not to push you or anything. You have your opinion yes, and its been said by you many a time. But unless you find any more valid reasons then stfu.

If you were to just have one good post I'm sure many other frum users will be pleasantly suprised.

Should you not post unless it is worth contributing something? I think yes, what about you?

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:14 pm

it always happens, but i like the spanish, always liked the footballers, and have backed them non stop to win the world cup. the mori thing annoys me so much as i know hes a good player, we all know it, but he hasnt shown it

I like Mori too , remember he score vs chelsea. But why he's not playing like he used to ( RM and Monaco ) ? If he's NOT scoring , RAFA should change his plan to let others played as a striker .

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