Liverpool FC Forum

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:26 am

Why do you defend Cisse to the hilt?

Im NOT defend Cisse , If Cisse played more games ( starting 1st 11 ) , played as striker ( NOT alone striker but played with other striker (4-4-2 not 4-5-1) ) but cant produce a goal, then its fair that he would be the first player to go . I will VOTE him out from the team.

BUT now , its a different player and that's MORI. He played more games than PC and Cisse as a Striker but yet he still cant scored enough GOALS .

Yes, some of you might said that he involve in assist, involve in a setting up the GOALS but remember we bought him as a Striker NOT as midfield. As a Striker, 1st task is to score GOALS , NO GOALS NO GOOD as Striker.

2nd thing, MOri is the second oldest than among our strikers. If he is the youngest among our strikers ( or younger than Cisse and PC ) and performance what like what we saw in the last few games. I would say that we should keep MORI because he's young but he almost 30 and Im dare to said that he played worst than school children.

In short, If he NOT perfomancing as a Striker ( Scoring GOALS ). GET RID of HIM before he become "white elephant".

by **red_guy** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:58 am

LiverpoolMadman wrote:
Why do you defend Cisse to the hilt?

Im NOT defend Cisse , If Cisse played more games ( starting 1st 11 ) , played as striker ( NOT alone striker but played with other striker (4-4-2 not 4-5-1) ) but cant produce a goal, then its fair that he would be the first player to go . I will VOTE him out from the team.

BUT now , its a different player and that's MORI. He played more games than PC and Cisse as a Striker but yet he still cant scored enough GOALS .

Yes, some of you might said that he involve in assist, involve in a setting up the GOALS but remember we bought him as a Striker NOT as midfield. As a Striker, 1st task is to score GOALS , NO GOALS NO GOOD as Striker.

2nd thing, MOri is the second oldest than among our strikers. If he is the youngest among our strikers ( or younger than Cisse and PC ) and performance what like what we saw in the last few games. I would say that we should keep MORI because he's young but he almost 30 and Im dare to said that he played worst than school children.

In short, If he NOT perfomancing as a Striker ( Scoring GOALS ). GET RID of HIM before he become "white elephant".

My God...what's with you?

Are you cisse's groupie or something?

Cisse = 1. Very poor touch
2. No Footballing brain
3. Lazy b@stard - should be running for
the ball instead of complaining most of the time.

At least , when not scoring he's ( nando) helping others to score or creating chances. Cisse? playing him as a striker is like playing with 10 men. :no

by **woof woof !** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:30 am

I was looking at some opta stats last night and although Moro keeps failing to score , in terms of shots on target, % wise he is our most accurate striker !

The mind boggles .

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:33 am

At least , when not scoring he's ( nando) helping others to score or creating chances. Cisse? playing him as a striker is like playing with 10 men.

red_guy my bro ,

Just like I said, If Cisse played more games ( starting 1st 11 ) , played as striker ( NOT alone striker but played with other striker (4-4-2 not 4-5-1) ) but cant produce a goal, then its fair that he would be the first player to go . I will VOTE him out from the team.

I really dont understand why some fans still cant see this. MORI CANT SCORE . "STRIKER is to score goals" , creating or helping other is JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Remember if you compare Cisse, PC , MORI and Folwer. Please look at the GOALs they score and the number of games they played as 1st 11.

I think if i NOT wrong every two games Cisse played for Liverpool this season , he score 1 goal.
Mori played every 5 games , he only manage to score 1 goal and as for PC every 6 games , he only score 1 goal.

The numbers show who to go and who to stay .

by **red_guy** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:47 am

LiverpoolMadman wrote:I think if i NOT wrong every two games Cisse played for Liverpool this season , he score 1 goal.

stats please, because i dont remember anything about cisse scoring 1 goal for every 2 games.

Well, if he really did that and 'contributed' a lot to the team, then why rafa prefers crouch and mori over cisse? Dont give me that bias c.rap...etc.

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:55 am

Well, if he really did that and 'contributed' a lot to the team, then why rafa prefers crouch and mori over cisse?

Maybe his attitude ( for some say ) but why he change ?

about cisse scoring 1 goal for every 2 games.

Check on Soccernet.com and do your own calculation.

by **bigmick** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:51 am

Sabre wrote:In my opinion our strikers movements are not at their free will. The question would be, do you think that if Morientes gets out of the box often, is due to he wants to do that, or due to he's told to do that by Rafa? I think it's the latter, but I'd love to read what you lot think about it.

Broadly Sabes strikers will stay in the box all game if the opposition defends deep enough to allow them to do so. I don't think we have an issue with balls being pinged into the area with no strikers there to finish them off, it's just that the strikers are not in the right places/moving in the right areas to give themselves the maximum chance of getting on the end of anything.
There is always potentially going to be a problem for Morientes if he is paired upfront with Crouch/Fowler as neither he nor they have an ounce of pace between them. Given the opportunity, defending teams will empty the box (for less experienced fans, rush out after a free/kick corner has been cleared) as quickly as they can and defend as high up the pitch as is humanly possible aswell. These three do afford that potential and teams are fully willing and able to take the chance while it's there. If he is paired with Crouch in particular, teams actively seek the opportunity to ensure the big fella is as far away from the penalty area as they can before they have to deal with the second ball. It maybe because of this that Morientes appears not to spend as much time in the box as at his previous clubs.
I don't think it's a question of coaching, although compared to the Spanish or rench leaues a forward in England would be expected and encouraged to forage and close down more.

To answer Effes point about over analysis and football being a simple game I think you have to look a little deeper. Football is in essence a simple game but to give yourself a chance of success you have to perform certain key points correctly. In the case of a striker, if he stands around in the area all season and doesn't move one iota, sooner or later the ball will drop favourably to him and he will score. If like Cisse he has a shot every time he gets within 30 yards of the goal and blasts it as hard as he can, sooner or later he will score a goal.

Here's one though and apologies if it's a touch technical. Imagine you are a striker and a corner comes over. You are marked (the defender is goalside). The ball ricochets in your direction. How big is the area in which the ball has to fall to make you favourite to get there first and get a shot away? Half a square yard maybe? What if, as the ball is contested in the air you take a backward couple of steps away from the defender. Now when it ricochets how big is your area now? Maybe 2 square yards. Last one, say you backtrack three or four yards from the fella who is marking you as the ball is being contested in the air. As it ricochets you get your momentum moving forward on the burst. Now you're looking for the ball to bounce anywhere in front of you within three or four yards. Anywhere there and you're favourite to get it. Over analysis? maybe but the strikers who do it right, what I call getting themselves open in the box the most score the most goals.

I'll finish with an example. FA cup final, Arsenal 1-0 Liverpool. Corner, scramble, ball kept alive. Babbel (I think) heads the ball back in and a whole rafty of players go for the bouncing ball. They all take a swing at it but one gets there a fraction of a second before the throng, BAM! 1-1. Luck? Don't think so mate. Fox in the box, over analysis, call it what you like but good strikers do that. Whether or not the ball comes to them or not, when you watch the really good ones you know that they will score goals. You don't get that feeling with any of ours with the possible and notable exception of Fowler.

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:28 am

Liverpool Madman... Are you Djibril Cisse, from Wales?

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:47 am

Liverpool Madman... Are you Djibril Cisse, from Wales?

No, I NOT.

by **Dimshen** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:58 am

Watching nando against arsenal only confirmed how dissapointing he has been since arriving at anfield, so poor, so infuriating, bottom line has to be...we need a decent striker, the top three teams have them and we have inept PC, irratic Cisse and dissapointin moro. It will cost us 2nd place to utd, which i find devestating

by **wee_boi888** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:26 pm

He's Cisse from Indonesia I think!

by **ynwa** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:33 pm

i would have nado then cisse. get rid of cisse he like all french players, when they cant get there own way they :censored:

the club up

by **Scottbot** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:55 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Fowler was never quick over 10-15 yards, he was pretty much exactly as he was last night. He used anticipation to gain yards in the box exactly how he did when he got that chance and brought a fantastic save from Lehman who was by far man of the match.

Watch an old video or two of Fowler in the mid-nineties and tell me he wasn't quicker Stu. He say's as much in his autobiography.

by **anfieldadorer** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:37 pm

not necessarily associated with nando's lack of goals but worth knowing

TOP SCORERS:
1 van Nistelrooy 19, 25 appearance
2 Henry 15
3 Bent 13
4 Lampard 13
5 Yakubu 13
6 Harewood 12
7 Rooney 10
8 Cole 9
9 Crespo 9
10 McBride 9
11 Mido 9
12 Camara 8
13 John 8
14 Keane 8
15 Beattie 7
16 Defoe 7
17 Drogba 7
18 Gerrard 7
19 Moore 7
20 Nolan 7
21 Owen 7
22 Pedersen 7
23 Roberts 7
24 Ronaldo 7
25 Vassell 7
26 Barton 6
27 Giannakopoulos 6
28 Helguson 6
29 Zamora 6
30 Baros 5
31 Bellamy 5
32 Cole 5
33 Dickov 5
34 Hasselbaink 5
35 Kuqi 5
36 Luis Garcia 5
37 Robben 5
38 Shearer 5
39 Cisse 4
40 Crouch 4
41 Davis 4
42 Horsfield 4
43 Jarosik 4
44 Jenas 4
45 Kanu 4
46 Murphy 4
47 Phillips 4
48 Pires 4
49 Sheringham 4
50 Taylor 4
51 Van Persie 4
52 Alonso 3
53 Ambrose 3
54 Benayoun 3
55 Bent 3
56 Bentley 3
57 Boa Morte 3
58 Cahill 3
59 Campbell 3
60 Diouf 3
61 Duff 3
62 Ellington 3
63 Ferdinand 3
64 Heskey 3
65 Karadas 3
66 King 3
67 Lawrence 3
68 LuaLua 3
69 Malbranque 3
70 McCulloch 3
71 Morientes 3 appearance:19 goals/apps= 0.16

SHOOTS/GOALS
1 van Nistelrooy (Man Utd) 52/17
2 Henry (Arsenal) 44/13
3 Bent (Charlton) 29/12
4 Harewood (West Ham) 25/10
5 Yakubu (Middlesbrough) 28/10
6 Rooney (Man Utd) 48/10
7 Crespo (Chelsea) 22/9
8 McBride (Fulham) 28/9
9 Cole (Man City) 30/9
10 Lampard (Chelsea) 55/9
11 Camara (Wigan Athletic) 21/8
12 Mido (Tottenham) 21/8
13 John (Fulham) 25/8
14 Moore (Aston Villa) 11/7
15 Owen (Newcastle) 13/7
16 Pedersen (Blackburn) 13/7
17 Drogba (Chelsea) 19/7
18 Nolan (Bolton) 20/7
19 Keane (Tottenham) 22/7
20 Vassell (Man City) 23/7
21 Ronaldo (Man Utd) 24/7
22 Defoe (Tottenham) 32/7
23 Zamora (West Ham) 12/6
24 Giannakopoulos (Bolton) 15/6
25 Roberts (Wigan Athletic) 17/6
26 Beattie (Everton) 19/6
27 Hasselbaink (Middlesbrough) 15/5
28 Kuqi (Blackburn) 17/5
29 Luis Garcia (Liverpool) 21/5
30 Robben (Chelsea) 21/5
31 Cole (Chelsea) 23/5
32 Barton (Man City) 24/5
33 Gerrard (Liverpool) 33/5
34 Horsfield (West Brom) 4/4
35 Kanu (West Brom) 8/4
36 Davis (Aston Villa) 9/4
37 Helguson (Fulham) 11/4
38 Jenas (Tottenham) 12/4
39 Phillips (Aston Villa) 13/4
40 Bellamy (Blackburn) 16/4
41 Jarosik (Birmingham) 21/4
42 Van Persie (Arsenal) 21/4
43 Taylor (Portsmouth) 22/4
44 Baros (Aston Villa) 24/4
45 Crouch (Liverpool) 25/4
46 Shearer (Newcastle) 29/4
47 Karadas (Portsmouth) 1/3
48 Ferdinand (Man Utd) 3/3
49 Ridgewell (Aston Villa) 4/3
50 Diouf (Bolton) 6/3
51 Queudrue (Middlesbrough) 6/3
52 King (Tottenham) 7/3
53 Saha (Man Utd) 7/3
54 Boa Morte (Fulham) 8/3
55 Duff (Chelsea) 8/3
56 Sheringham (West Ham) 8/3
57 Campbell (West Brom) 9/3
58 Sinclair (Man City) 9/3
59 Murphy (Tottenham) 11/3
60 Dickov (Blackburn) 12/ 3
61 Malbranque (Fulham) 12/3
62 McCulloch (Wigan Athletic) 12/3
63 Pires (Arsenal) 12/3
64 Viduka (Middlesbrough) 12/3
65 Alonso (Liverpool) 13/3
66 Bentley (Blackburn) 13/3
67 O'Neil (Portsmouth) 15/3
68 Ambrose (Charlton) 16/3
69 Lawrence (Sunderland) 16/3
70 Heskey (Birmingham) 17/3
71 N'Zogbia (Newcastle) 17/3
72 Cisse (Liverpool) 20/3
73 Benayoun (West Ham) 23/ 3
70 Heskey (Birmingham) 17/3
71 N'Zogbia (Newcastle) 17/3
72 Cisse (Liverpool) 20/3
73 Benayoun (West Ham) 23/3
74 Cahill (Everton) 23/3
75 Reyes (Arsenal) 26/3
76 Morientes (Liverpool) 30/3

MINUTES PER GOAL
1 Rossi (Man Utd) 47
2 Ashton (West Ham) 92
3 van Nistelrooy (Man Utd) 114
4 Henry (Arsenal) 127
5 Owen (Newcastle) 129
6 Crespo (Chelsea) 130
7 Moore (Aston Villa) 137
8 Helguson (Fulham) 140
9 Yakubu (Middlesbrough) 151
10 Samaras (Man City) 156
11 John (Fulham) 158
12 Saha (Man Utd) 167
13 Bent (Charlton) 172
14 Drogba (Chelsea) 180
15 Keane (Tottenham) 182
16 Lampard (Chelsea) 183
17 Dickov (Blackburn) 184
18 Camara (Wigan Athletic) 186
19 Zamora (West Ham) 186
20 Hasselbaink (Middlesbrough) 192
21 Harewood (West Ham) 193
22 Mido (Tottenham) 197
23 Cole (Man City) 204
24 Ronaldo (Man Utd) 204
25 Bellamy (Blackburn) 206
26 Wright-Phillips (Man City) 209
27 Van Persie (Arsenal) 220
28 Defoe (Tottenham) 222
29 Beattie (Everton) 225
30 Sheringham (West Ham) 228
31 McBride (Fulham) 230
32 Rooney (Man Utd) 231
33 Geremi (Chelsea) 232
34 Horsfield (West Brom) 235
35 Thompson (Wigan Athletic) 235
36 Zenden (Liverpool) 237
37 Campo (Bolton) 242
38 Phillips (Aston Villa) 244
39 Murphy (Sunderland) 245
40 Kanu (West Brom) 253
41 Luis Garcia (Liverpool) 253
42 Mellor (Wigan Athletic) 256
43 Robben (Chelsea) 266
44 Giannakopoulos (Bolton) 269
45 Johansson (Wigan Athletic) 282
46 Adebayor (Arsenal) 290
47 Pedersen (Blackburn) 297
48 Gerrard (Liverpool) 299
49 Fowler (Liverpool) 302
50 Roberts (Wigan Athletic) 304
51 Borgetti (Bolton) 305
52 Bothroyd (Charlton) 305
53 Cisse (Liverpool) 307
54 Jarosik (Birmingham) 307
55 Kuqi (Blackburn) 308
56 Baros (Aston Villa) 309
57 Nolan (Bolton) 314
58 Cole (Chelsea) 315
59 Vassell (Man City) 325
60 Fadiga (Bolton) 330
61 N'Zogbia (Newcastle) 337
62 Ambrose (Charlton) 365
63 Campbell (West Brom) 369
64 Karadas (Portsmouth) 378
65 Crouch (Liverpool) 381
66 Ellington (West Brom) 381
67 Barton (Man City) 391
68 Pandiani (Birmingham) 392
69 Riera (Man City) 392
70 Pires (Arsenal) 395
71 Duff (Chelsea) 397
72 Dunn (Birmingham) 397
73 Mahon (Wigan Athletic) 397
74 Murphy (Tottenham) 405
75 Maccarone (Middlesbrough) 418
76 Bentley (Blackburn) 425
77 Shearer (Newcastle) 431
78 Sibierski (Man City) 436
79 Emre (Newcastle) 437
80 Viduka (Middlesbrough) 439
81 Reyes (Arsenal) 442
82 Bent (Charlton) 444
83 Elliott (Sunderland) 449
84 Morientes (Liverpool) 453

misc:
Assists: 2
Assist/appearance 2/19=0.1
Crosses: 6, crosses per appearance 6/19 = 0.3

by **115-1073096938** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:52 pm

anfieldadorer wrote:MINUTES PER GOAL
1 Rossi (Man Utd) 47
2 Ashton (West Ham) 92

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We have seen enough of moro

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