Liverpool FC Forum

by **dawson99** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:39 pm

thats not a biased opinion ga :censored:

coming from the republic

by **Gaunt** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:47 pm

Actually i was trying to keep it historically based and neutral. I don't condone the activities of the modern day IRA as i think they are criminals. As i said the old IRA is completely different.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:25 pm

i watched simon schama`s history of britain a while back about ireland and the potato famine and to be honest it was f@cking outrageous and one of the darkest chapters in british history. basically there was no need for anyone to starve (which i didn`t know) because although the potato crop had failed britain was sitting on an absolute bumper crop of corn.
it was mentioned in the higher escheleons of the british government that the corn should be sent to ireland forthwith but at the time corn was a big commodity and releasing all this corn onto the `open market` would make its price plummet. surprise surprise some of the most powerful men in british politics at the time were also powerful landowners who grew corn on their farms but even in those days the decision not to send the corn didnt go down well with a lot of influential people who backgrounds where in the church and university`s. it was the early days of the stock market and schama said from that day on the markets have always placed profit before humanity. this was back in the days when only landowners could vote in general elections too (5% of the co :censored:

ry ran 100% of empire) so the british public had no say in the matter if they agreed with it or not. then again kids were starving under their noses on the streets of london in those days so i suppose its a bit much to expect those types of powerful people to care about people who lived a couple of hundred miles away.
episodes like this didnt exactly endear our government to the irish people.

by **Gareth G** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:01 pm

Isn't the famine why there's a big Irish connection in Liverpool, a lot of them moved there, right? OR am I totally off?

by **dawson99** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:05 pm

well im from london, the only connection i got with any form of IRA new or old is mates getting killed a few years back and a lot of :censored:

toput up with so sorry if im not as simpathetic about something that happened many many years ago

by **JBG** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:29 pm

I'm just moving this to General Chat as there is no football discussion left in it.

Celtic fans sing Irish rebel songs harking back to the old days of the War of Independence. This IRA was a populist based movement engaged in a guerilla war to liberate Ireland from the British Empire.

The IRA which was involved in the Troubles in Northern Ireland and latterly the bombing campaign on the British mainland are known as the Provisional IRA or the Provos. The vast majority of Celtic fans do not sing about the Provos.

To an ear uneducated in Irish history it is easy not to see the difference and conclude that when Celtic fans are singing about the IRA they are condoning the terrorism that went on in Northern Ireland and the British mainland. However, the vast majority of them are not.

Its a complicated subject, not helped by by comparing Irish republicanism to Nazism, as Nazism is in a category all of its own. However, it is interesting that both (and indeed Islamic terrorism) were born out of kneejerk reactions to trend in history.

by **dawson99** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:31 pm

good that this was moved but to say that celtic only sing songs about the original IRA is just naieive. people sing songs that will hurt other teams. the posh and beckahm jokes were a bit harsh. theres chants about michael shields and heysel. Chants about harding and the munich air disaster.

ALL teams do this. im not saying people here do, but liverpool 'fans' do. im not saying its right, its just something that hapens

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:03 pm

KOP-1892 wrote:Isn't the famine why there's a big Irish connection in Liverpool, a lot of them moved there, right? OR am I totally off?

yeah mate infact liverpools population doubled from 200,000 to 400,000 within a very short space of time. u.n.til the 1850`s the people of liverpool spoke with a lancashire accent, mix this with an irish accent and a touch of welsh and you get the distinctive scouse accent. it shows you the amo.u.n.t of people that must have settled here to actually change the local dialect. the name scouse even comes because of the irish immigrants, a lot of norweigans worked on the ships out of liverpool in those days and their version of irish stew was called lobskouse, because that many irish people settled around the docks the only thing that seemed to be eaten was this stew so the norweigans started calling the inhabitants of liverpools skousers and it st.u.c.k.
in those days though due to the political turmoil in italy and russia amongst other places the movement of populous in large numbers was quite common. its estimated over 6million irish, russians, italians and eastern europeans sailed from liverpool in the mid to late 1800`s to a new life mainly in the states.
when you consider the large irish influence in places like new york, boston and basically everywhere else in the english speaking world if the famine wouldnt have happened the world would be a very different place today. i dont suppose thats much comfort to the poor souls who starved to death or struggled to make a home in a strange cou.n.try.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:07 pm

that swearing thing is a right :censored:

pain in the :censored:

.

by **drummerphil** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:29 pm

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
KOP-1892 wrote:Isn't the famine why there's a big Irish connection in Liverpool, a lot of them moved there, right? OR am I totally off?

yeah mate infact liverpools population doubled from 200,000 to 400,000 within a very short space of time. u.n.til the 1850`s the people of liverpool spoke with a lancashire accent, mix this with an irish accent and a touch of welsh and you get the distinctive scouse accent. it shows you the amo.u.n.t of people that must have settled here to actually change the local dialect. the name scouse even comes because of the irish immigrants, a lot of norweigans worked on the ships out of liverpool in those days and their version of irish stew was called lobskouse, because that many irish people settled around the docks the only thing that seemed to be eaten was this stew so the norweigans started calling the inhabitants of liverpools skousers and it st.u.c.k.
in those days though due to the political turmoil in italy and russia amongst other places the movement of populous in large numbers was quite common. its estimated over 6million irish, russians, italians and eastern europeans sailed from liverpool in the mid to late 1800`s to a new life mainly in the states.
when you consider the large irish influence in places like new york, boston and basically everywhere else in the english speaking world if the famine wouldnt have happened the world would be a very different place today. i dont suppose thats much comfort to the poor souls who starved to death or struggled to make a home in a strange cou.n.try.

your quite the historian matey

by **Gareth G** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:37 pm

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
KOP-1892 wrote:Isn't the famine why there's a big Irish connection in Liverpool, a lot of them moved there, right? OR am I totally off?

yeah mate infact liverpools population doubled from 200,000 to 400,000 within a very short space of time. u.n.til the 1850`s the people of liverpool spoke with a lancashire accent, mix this with an irish accent and a touch of welsh and you get the distinctive scouse accent. it shows you the amo.u.n.t of people that must have settled here to actually change the local dialect. the name scouse even comes because of the irish immigrants, a lot of norweigans worked on the ships out of liverpool in those days and their version of irish stew was called lobskouse, because that many irish people settled around the docks the only thing that seemed to be eaten was this stew so the norweigans started calling the inhabitants of liverpools skousers and it st.u.c.k.
in those days though due to the political turmoil in italy and russia amongst other places the movement of populous in large numbers was quite common. its estimated over 6million irish, russians, italians and eastern europeans sailed from liverpool in the mid to late 1800`s to a new life mainly in the states.
when you consider the large irish influence in places like new york, boston and basically everywhere else in the english speaking world if the famine wouldnt have happened the world would be a very different place today. i dont suppose thats much comfort to the poor souls who starved to death or struggled to make a home in a strange cou.n.try.

Very interesting mate, I never knew any of those detail's. :;):

by **Tonforthetop** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:54 pm

JBG wrote:I'm just moving this to General Chat as there is no football discussion left in it.

Celtic fans sing Irish rebel songs harking back to the old days of the War of Independence. This IRA was a populist based movement engaged in a guerilla war to liberate Ireland from the British Empire.

The IRA which was involved in the Troubles in Northern Ireland and latterly the bombing campaign on the British mainland are known as the Provisional IRA or the Provos. The vast majority of Celtic fans do not sing about the Provos.

To an ear uneducated in Irish history it is easy not to see the difference and conclude that when Celtic fans are singing about the IRA they are condoning the terrorism that went on in Northern Ireland and the British mainland. However, the vast majority of them are not.

Its a complicated subject, not helped by by comparing Irish republicanism to Nazism, as Nazism is in a category all of its own. However, it is interesting that both (and indeed Islamic terrorism) were born out of kneejerk reactions to trend in history.

Yes, JBG it is a very complicated subject that has been twisted at every turn to gain maximum political gain. The irony is if you peel back the layers of religious bigotry you will find that thee are many common threads. ie St George is also a palastinian ST........... etc

Its a complicated subject, not helped by by comparing Irish republicanism to Nazism, as Nazism is in a category all of its own. However, it is interesting that both (and indeed Islamic terrorism) were born out of kneejerk reactions to trend in history.[quote]

by **Mikz** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:57 pm

dawson99 wrote:good that this was moved but to say that celtic only sing songs about the original IRA is just naieive. people sing songs that will hurt other teams. the posh and beckahm jokes were a bit harsh. theres chants about michael shields and heysel. Chants about harding and the munich air disaster.

ALL teams do this. im not saying people here do, but liverpool 'fans' do. im not saying its right, its just something that hapens

Absolutely spot on! And that will never change . I could say Rangers sing songs about the old uvf that fought in the Battle of the somme or whatever it was, but im not kidding myself here.

by **kazza 1** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:41 pm

Could someone please tell me how this thread went from Rangers being a bigger and better team than Liverpool, to being a thread about religon and Irish Politics?

As many of you know, I live in Northern Ireland and everytime there is an "old Firm Match" Rangers and Celtic fans come out of the woodwork and get the boat across to Scotland (they get the tickets from supporters clubs). They are meant to be going to see the match, but they seem to like it better if there is a roit at the end of it! They sing their stupid songs to each other, just get each others nose.......
If thats supporting you fav football team you can keep it!!!
The topic of religon has been talked about before on this forum and at the time I made a few posts on it, but we are trying to get on with things here. We all have had someone we know or know someone who has lost a loved one to the IRA, UDA etc. Let them rest in peace. As long as there are people out there willing to keep bringing up this cr@p, it will just keep going!
Sorry people, but this cr@p gets on my nerves! Let it drop and someone lock the thread before someone says something they don't mean............................

by **greenred** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:10 am

kazza 1 wrote:Sorry people, but this cr@p gets on my nerves! Let it drop and someone lock the thread before someone says something they don't mean............................

Friday night,people getting ch :censored:

ed out of pubs......should be anytime now...

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