Liverpool FC Forum

by **Scottbot** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:01 pm

No doubt we're all depressed. Like most of you i'm an unashamed 'slave to the game'. When we win the world is a better and brighter place no matter what might be going on in my own life. When we lose i can't read the papers, don't wanna talk football and try to convince myself it's 'only football' (it doesn't work!)

We have made a very gloomy start to this seaon. I wasn't expecting a title challenge or anything like that but was pretty convinced we would start the season with a bang. This was based on three factors: 1- Having to play all those quallies in pre-season meant we were gonna be sharp come the start of the league season. 2- We looked pretty useful in all those early games. 3- I figured the euphoria from Instanbul and the confidence it must have given the players would have a positive impact on the new season.

It hasn't happened and as you would expect these boards have been a pretty depressing place to hang around.

What would you do if you were the manager? How would you change things around? How would you go about changing the mentality, personnel & formation?

Mentality - It's pretty obvious to anyone that these players aren't aren't really playing for eachother right now. I don't believe we are currently working as hard as the likes of Bolton, Wigan or Charlton (you can include Chelsea.) Several established first team players are completely lost for form and should be facing up to a stint on the bench. It might not be Rafa's way but i would sit the whole squad down and present a few hard facts. These lads need a rocket up their :censored:

. I don't want to hear the manager saying 'maybe we were just a bit unlucky, i thought we controlled the game' after a 2-0 defeat - We were losing the game for 60 of the 90 minutes so i don't know at what stage we were controlling it. I think it's probably time the players took a bit of a roasting from the boss. If not in public than in private.

Personnel - Key players are not performing at the moment. Garcia has had a pretty torid in the EPL so far this season. I know he is a Rafa favourite (as well as one of mine) but sometimes a player needs to see that his place in the side is not set in stone (i get the impression it is) - I would give the lad some time on the bench.
Riise does not look the same player this season with rumours that he spent most of his summer partying with his European Cup medalion hung around his neck. I don't know what the problem is. Maybe his confidence suffered a little with the arrival of Zenden leaving 3 players competing for that left-wing spot? maybe he needs a run of games (he's been in and out this season) to win back some form. He would still be my first choice at the moment for that spot on the left. I would not rush back Kewell (regardless of how we're performing) coz he will only break down again.
Traore - Not going to bang on about him however Rafa's persistance in playing the lad leaves me utterly baffled. He is terrible. Young Warnock should play every week. If not i would play Riisse.
Alonso - Massive favourite with the fans and one of the first names on Rafa's teamsheet (along with Carra, Gerrard & Garcia.) Has become a bit of an untouchable after some of his performances last season but he's not really doing it for me so far this season. Best player on the park in Europe on Wednesday but looks unlikely to produce the same form at home right now. Just a thought but does his lack of pace (he might be slower than Jamie Rednapp) hamstring him sometimes?

Players i would like to see play:

Cisse - I've still to make up my mind on the lad but there are goals in him.

Pongo - Would like to see the lad play up front with Crouch (or Cisse.) He looks a lot stronger this season, he's a team player but also brings a bit of the unpredictable. Also the only one of our strikers i'd fancy to poach an ugly goal when the ball is bobbling about the box.

Warnock - The reason - See Djimi Traore

Sissoko - Never gives up, battles hard all game, covers a lot of ground. I would play him ahead of Alonso right now.

Formation - It's not all about formation althoug it's all fans ever talk about these days (Champ Manager has a lot to answer for on this front!) There are a few reasons why i would prefer 4-4-2.

1- Garcia is the most suitable man to play the 2nd striker role in a 4-5-1. He is a natural when it comes to finding space between the oppositions defence-midfield but he is currently way off colour. I'm not a fan of Gerrard playing as a deep striker.

2- Our winger playt sucks :censored:

3- I don't think Crouch has made a bad start to his Liverpool career and i would love to see him play with someone with pace and mobility alongside him. For me it has to be Cisse or Pongo (Crouch & Pongo could be really good i think.)

4- Gerrard should play in the engine room. Yes he's fantastic going forward. One of the most powerful and dynamic players i have ever seen BUT the lad is a Midfielder. Always will be. Stevie is one of the best tacklers (if not the best) in English football. By playing him so far up the pitch we pretty much lose that part of his game. Right now i would play him in the middle with Sissoko. I wouldn't want those two snapping at my heels. Even if we play 4-5-1 i would ask Garcia to play 2nd striker and Gerrard in the centre of the team.

Finally - I read this morning that we have failed to win in 15 straight games after playing in Europe. If we beat Anderlect next Wednesday i would send the kids/fringe players out in our final games against Chelsea/Betis.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:03 pm

Sensibley and effectively.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:12 pm

Scottbot wrote:Finally - I read this morning that we have failed to win in 15 straight games after playing in Europe.

Thats a f*cking shocking stat. We certainly don't travel well.

I'd play Alonso through his bad patch. It's the only way to regain form. Rest him for a couple of games to see if it's fatigue, but no more than that.
Riise seems to still be in cloud cookoo land. The CL win is rattling around his brain 5 months later.

I think in essence, Rafa's system of choice is a very good one. If only the strikers did their jobs we'd have won virtually every game this season.
Although a cliche, the "Form is temperary, class is permanant" adage certainly suits our current situation.

by **Paul C** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:20 pm

Start scoring more goals and stop being over caucious :angry:

by **King Dogleash** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:59 pm

Get in a english (or scottish) assistant to the mamager who can give Raf some insight to our game, its obvious in europe he knows the score but in the league he is missing the point i feel, somone like Thompson to set the scene on some of our opponents and the way they play, its like we are good enuff to beat anyone but dont know how!!

by **Scottbot** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:34 pm

King Dogleash wrote:Get in a english (or scottish) assistant to the mamager who can give Raf some insight to our game, its obvious in europe he knows the score but in the league he is missing the point i feel, somone like Thompson to set the scene on some of our opponents and the way they play, its like we are good enuff to beat anyone but dont know how!!

I don't think that is the answer. Sure there are differences between English football and the rest of Europe but it's still the same game. Rafa's track record tells you he is a very intelligent manager who knows football inside out. I think he can probably figure out the differences all by himself. I mean any fan will tell you things like; the game is faster here, there is less time on the ball, the game is more physical, you need a target man playing up front, keepers have more crosses to deal with, the refs blow there whistles less here etc.

This might have been a good shout last season but Rafa has a had a whole season to see how his rivals play. I don't think a Thompson type figure would make all the difference. After all he has Alex Miller (a Jock) on the scene already.

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:51 pm

Scottbot wrote:No doubt we're all depressed. Like most of you i'm an unashamed 'slave to the game'. When we win the world is a better and brighter place no matter what might be going on in my own life. When we lose i can't read the papers, don't wanna talk football and try to convince myself it's 'only football' (it doesn't work!)

We have made a very gloomy start to this seaon. I wasn't expecting a title challenge or anything like that but was pretty convinced we would start the season with a bang. This was based on three factors: 1- Having to play all those quallies in pre-season meant we were gonna be sharp come the start of the league season. 2- We looked pretty useful in all those early games. 3- I figured the euphoria from Instanbul and the confidence it must have given the players would have a positive impact on the new season.

It hasn't happened and as you would expect these boards have been a pretty depressing place to hang around.

What would you do if you were the manager? How would you change things around? How would you go about changing the mentality, personnel & formation?

Mentality - It's pretty obvious to anyone that these players aren't aren't really playing for eachother right now. I don't believe we are currently working as hard as the likes of Bolton, Wigan or Charlton (you can include Chelsea.) Several established first team players are completely lost for form and should be facing up to a stint on the bench. It might not be Rafa's way but i would sit the whole squad down and present a few hard facts. These lads need a rocket up their . I don't want to hear the manager saying 'maybe we were just a bit unlucky, i thought we controlled the game' after a 2-0 defeat - We were losing the game for 60 of the 90 minutes so i don't know at what stage we were controlling it. I think it's probably time the players took a bit of a roasting from the boss. If not in public than in private.

Personnel - Key players are not performing at the moment. Garcia has had a pretty torid in the EPL so far this season. I know he is a Rafa favourite (as well as one of mine) but sometimes a player needs to see that his place in the side is not set in stone (i get the impression it is) - I would give the lad some time on the bench.
Riise does not look the same player this season with rumours that he spent most of his summer partying with his European Cup medalion hung around his neck. I don't know what the problem is. Maybe his confidence suffered a little with the arrival of Zenden leaving 3 players competing for that left-wing spot? maybe he needs a run of games (he's been in and out this season) to win back some form. He would still be my first choice at the moment for that spot on the left. I would not rush back Kewell (regardless of how we're performing) coz he will only break down again.
Traore - Not going to bang on about him however Rafa's persistance in playing the lad leaves me utterly baffled. He is terrible. Young Warnock should play every week. If not i would play Riisse.
Alonso - Massive favourite with the fans and one of the first names on Rafa's teamsheet (along with Carra, Gerrard & Garcia.) Has become a bit of an untouchable after some of his performances last season but he's not really doing it for me so far this season. Best player on the park in Europe on Wednesday but looks unlikely to produce the same form at home right now. Just a thought but does his lack of pace (he might be slower than Jamie Rednapp) hamstring him sometimes?

Players i would like to see play:

Cisse - I've still to make up my mind on the lad but there are goals in him.

Pongo - Would like to see the lad play up front with Crouch (or Cisse.) He looks a lot stronger this season, he's a team player but also brings a bit of the unpredictable. Also the only one of our strikers i'd fancy to poach an ugly goal when the ball is bobbling about the box.

Warnock - The reason - See Djimi Traore

Sissoko - Never gives up, battles hard all game, covers a lot of ground. I would play him ahead of Alonso right now.

Formation - It's not all about formation althoug it's all fans ever talk about these days (Champ Manager has a lot to answer for on this front!) There are a few reasons why i would prefer 4-4-2.

1- Garcia is the most suitable man to play the 2nd striker role in a 4-5-1. He is a natural when it comes to finding space between the oppositions defence-midfield but he is currently way off colour. I'm not a fan of Gerrard playing as a deep striker.

2- Our winger playt sucks

3- I don't think Crouch has made a bad start to his Liverpool career and i would love to see him play with someone with pace and mobility alongside him. For me it has to be Cisse or Pongo (Crouch & Pongo could be really good i think.)

4- Gerrard should play in the engine room. Yes he's fantastic going forward. One of the most powerful and dynamic players i have ever seen BUT the lad is a Midfielder. Always will be. Stevie is one of the best tacklers (if not the best) in English football. By playing him so far up the pitch we pretty much lose that part of his game. Right now i would play him in the middle with Sissoko. I wouldn't want those two snapping at my heels. Even if we play 4-5-1 i would ask Garcia to play 2nd striker and Gerrard in the centre of the team.

Finally - I read this morning that we have failed to win in 15 straight games after playing in Europe. If we beat Anderlect next Wednesday i would send the kids/fringe players out in our final games against Chelsea/Betis.

Yeah it's a smashing post Scott and probably the best forward thinking assessment of where we need to go that I've read on here.
I agree with you on the workrate thing. We try and press the ball high up the pitch as this is one of Rafa's mantras but we are poor at it in my view. Too often players hunt the ball on their own and without enough gusto, allowing the opposition the luxury of reducing the tempo when in posession. It must be in packs and at a high intensity. There are too many of our players in midfield and forward positions who just go through the motions when not in posession. This is actually one of the reasons why we are much more effective on the road in Europe. We don't press the ball so high up in those games, and thankfully the opposition don't play it in long and get in amongst us. They choose to play infront of us all the time which is very accomodating of them. Chelsea soon saw the error of their ways after their toothless display in the CL, they simply went more direct on the Sunday and Drogba and the raiding midfielders caused us all sorts of problems.
Me? I'd press the ball less far up the pitch in the Prem for a start. If it's something we are working towards then fine keep practicing it but at the moment we are innefective at it and I'd drop the practice. I would play a more compact style with the gaps between the three banks tightened up. For the time being at least I would invite teams to defend higher up in the Prem and open them up with Cisse's pace. If they defend deeper I would knock it into Crouch and get Cisse, the attacking midfielder and the opposite wide man in and around him. I'd aim for 4 players in and around the penalty area each time the ball is played into it.
The idea about leaving Alonso out for the time being is an interesting one. Personally I wouldn't quite go with it but I would certainly concede that he is one of a number of players who are currently getting the runaround every week in the league.
Finally I's settle on a team and play it for a few weeks. Based on how we are currently going, FWIW this would be mine to give us the best chance of beating West Ham which is where all our focus should be right now.
Reina
Finnan Hyppia Carragher Warnock
Pongolle Gerrard Alonso Kewell
Crouch Cisse

Most of 'em pick themselves. I have long stood up for Traore but at the moment Warnock is a better bet as Djimi is playing terrible. It maybe that Warnock is a better full-back long-term as everybody assures me but I'm yet to be convinced. Josemi I wouldn't pay in bottle tops to be honest so Finnan gets the nod if fit, if not we might aswell find out how good raven is FWIW. Steven Wright wouldn't have been a bad stand-in but that's for another time. Pongolle seems to me the only player who can play on the right with the exception of Cisse who is needed down the middle, and Kewell gets the nod narrowly over Riise. Crouch and Cisse is the best pairing for me and I'd go with those two.
I'd sit the whole squad down and tell them that this is my team. the ones who are not in it had better work their balls off to get in, and those that are in had better work them off to stay.

by **parchpea** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:26 pm

I would pick the my team and just ask them to go out and play without fear, have a real go and ATTACK the opposition. Let them worry about us for a change because all this tactic and rotation stuff is getting us nowhere. Its almost like Rafa has been posessed by Houlliers ghost recently. He was all positive at first and now its clean sheets and all the drab kak all over again. For pitys sake lets go out and get our game on and play some football on the front foot. Im covinced we will win more than we lose and get more points on the board.

by **NiftyNeil** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:35 pm

I'd just pick a team, then stick to it. That's what Chelsea did last season, now they have built up a bit of momentum and they have the luxury of rotation without inconsistency.

by **andy_g** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:38 pm

i'll just go along with what the other guys are saying - it makes sense. pick your best team and stick with it. pick that best team according to the players you have and positions they're comfortable in. stop trying to play people out of position, if necessary change the formation. make sure the players know their job. and as mick said, make sure they know that they have to fight to keep in that first 11. do i get the job?

by **Bullseye** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:49 pm

Hi Guys, i went to the game at Fulham on Saturday, i travelled over from Norway.
I think that this was the best game i have seen awayfrom Anfield for many a long time, we were great in the first half and should have scored at least one goal.
Also i thought that Sissoko was fantastic in midfield,what a player!!
I hope we win 9.0 tommorow just like we did in the 90's

by **stoney** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:22 pm

Bullseye wrote:Hi Guys, i went to the game at Fulham on Saturday, i travelled over from Norway.
I think that this was the best game i have seen awayfrom Anfield for many a long time, we were great in the first half and should have scored at least one goal.
Also i thought that Sissoko was fantastic in midfield,what a player!!
I hope we win 9.0 tommorow just like we did in the 90's

You sure you were at the right game :alien:

by **Red squirrel** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:38 pm

I would start by getting in a top class winger on the right. Every time Garcia plays there he goes missing for the entire match.Even the left side is a problem cos we've no real natural crosser of the ball and thats the main reason we've been light weight in the goals department. I know this is an obvious statement as everyone knows how blaitent it is but this is the main reason we dont kill off games at the right time in a match. Leave Cisse up front and the goals will follow, i truley believe that!

by **RUSHIE#9** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:35 pm

Reading the Echo tonight and the excellent Chris Bascobe reported that Rafa was in a complete rage with the attitude of his squad and called an emergency summit on Sunday (their rest day i presume) at Melwood so they could sit through the 45 minute horror show of the 1st half at fulham. IMO this has to be taken as a positive step for us 'cos it DOES show that in private Rafa is not happy no matter what he says in public with the way the lads are performing (or maybe that should read not performing).

I think that at this point in time it couldn't hurt to throw in one or two of the younger players in the league 'cos the so called senior squad players aren't living up to their side of the bargain and performing in the so called low key league games. I certainly think that it is time for Traore to be well and truly bombed out of the team - he's had enough chances yet he still doesn't look like he's got anything to offer that a crappy pub team would want in their side. Warnock i think deserves a return to the team and i think we may see that on Saturday.
Depending on the fitness of Finnan come Saturday and how he performs on Tuesday at palace i'd definately think about bringing Raven into the fold as Rafa himself has said how highly Hugie McAuley and Paco Herrera rate him in the reserves at the moment.
My opinion for that bloody awful right wing position at the moment like a lot of you would be to give Sinama a run in the side there, lets face it he can't be any worse than the other players used out there.

I know it's nothing ground breaking but as springfields very own KENT BROCKMAN would say "that's my two cents."
:laugh:

by **LFC #1** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:38 am

stoney wrote:
Bullseye wrote:Hi Guys, i went to the game at Fulham on Saturday, i travelled over from Norway.
I think that this was the best game i have seen awayfrom Anfield for many a long time, we were great in the first half and should have scored at least one goal.
Also i thought that Sissoko was fantastic in midfield,what a player!!
I hope we win 9.0 tommorow just like we did in the 90's

You sure you were at the right game

I thought the same when i read that.

Sissoko probably had his worst game yet in a red shirt, and we were dire in the first half. Only in the second half did we start to play soem decent football.

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