Liverpool FC Forum

by **woof woof !** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:11 pm

Thinkpad wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
Thinkpad wrote:What is the purpose of this thread?

It's called a forum "Thinkpad" , people air their thoughts and opinions regardless of whether you like them .
Maybe that thought hadn't occured to you .

Huh??

Does it mean hidding behind a nick, you can make racist and deregotory remarks. (Not saying he made any) Just an example in case you do not get it.

Huh ?

And your point is ?

Your introduce a hypothetical scenario to support your stance ?

Stu and many other (myself included ) don't rate Baro's ,and we're airing our thoughts . Is that simple enough for you "Dude " :kungfu:

by **115-1073096938** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:13 pm

<<< What is that please?

by **stmichael** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:15 pm

baros is not good enough end of. the guy works hard but he doesn't have what I'd call "a striker's instinct". he doesn't anticipate things around him well like owen used to.

by **woof woof !** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:26 pm

stu_the_red wrote: <<< What is that please?

Kop " Kung Fu " :buttrock

by **stmichael** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:37 pm

I have to admit that it is a strange situation that Milan holds a regular starting place in a team which Fifa in its recent ranking ranked second of the world behind Brazil and above Argentina. The guy has a phenomenal international scoring record but at the same time plays off-form for a Liverpool team struggling for 4th place. Why?

There were only few efforts here to explain and agreed, it’s difficult and always up to speculation. But it is clear that the one argument repeated here was “He’s just not good enough”.

Only a few of you will deny that Milan had a decent first half of the season. He delivered and had some really good games (C. Palace, Newcastle). Come Christmas and the situation changed: injury, long-term injuries to Alonso and Kewell, and –IMO the most important – the arrival of Morientes. It was clear that Benítez wanted his star to shine, with the other strikers’ only task to support him.

It’s a heavy blow in anybody’s professional career if you realize that performing well and showing commitment are not the only criteria for being favoured. I guess that was Milan’s experience and frustration. He probably had the feeling not to be needed anymore, he possibly overreacted (CC final) and lost confidence. Instead of building up the lad’s strength and trying to improve the flaws of his game, the only thing Benítez reached was a loss of confidence. It is easy to say the guy is just cr@p. But as he shows with another team that he is not, I would say that the coach has to take responsibility, and a great deal of it.

Benítez never rated Milan and after the arrival of Morientes there was no longer the need to hide that. And for many of the so-called supporters it was a very safe ride to follow the coach and abuse an unwanted player. It seems Milan is an ideal scapegoat now for all the frustration of a not all too good season.

by **woof woof !** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:52 pm

A well reasoned post St Mick BUT the bottom line is Baros has had countless opportunities to prove he is our "star striker " and has continually failed to take those opportunties . To suggest that Rafa has favoured Morientes over Baros and is responsible for the poor form from Baros is in my opinion a barrow load of boll'ox.
I'm not blindly following Rafa as our saviour ,he has however done a decent enough job considering it's his first season in the prem, he has fielded Baros at at almost every opportunity Baros just hasn't done the Biz.

by **Eazy-E** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:54 pm

Fact- Baros scored 11 in the first half of the season, got injured...was never the same. I think he just needs the goal to get back on track.
Fact- He only scored one from open play against Palace. But, how nervous would you be standing in front of the Kop, 90th minute and you have a chance to win the game

.
Fact- Scored a beautiful individual goal against Monaco.
Fact- Baros is the only striker who has proved his worth this season.

P.S Garcia ain't a striker

.

by **woof woof !** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:56 pm

Eazy-E wrote:P.S Garcia ain't a striker .

Don't tell Garcia that or we'd really be f'u'cked !

by **coolsobs** » Sun May 01, 2005 8:07 pm

fact of the matter is that baros is out of form at the moment out at the moment if u wait give him some time and if he scores 2 goals against chelsea everyone will be saying how we should try and keep him and not sell him in summer.

by **A.B.** » Sun May 01, 2005 8:15 pm

A well reasoned post St Mick BUT the bottom line is Baros has had countless opportunities to prove he is our "star striker " and has continually failed to take those opportunties . To suggest that Rafa has favoured Morientes over Baros and is responsible for the poor form from Baros is in my opinion a barrow load of boll'ox.
I'm not blindly following Rafa as our saviour ,he has however done a decent enough job considering it's his first season in the prem, he has fielded Baros at at almost every opportunity Baros just hasn't done the Biz

Nail on head.

by **XSD** » Sun May 01, 2005 8:21 pm

Eazy-E wrote:Fact- He only scored one from open play against Palace. But, how nervous would you be standing in front of the Kop, 90th minute and you have a chance to win the game .

I agree with this, no one here should be ruling out the importance of scoring penalties. It is obviously not as easy as it seems, how many did we miss last season? We've missed a couple this season too.

by **JC_81** » Sun May 01, 2005 8:22 pm

stmichael wrote:I have to admit that it is a strange situation that Milan holds a regular starting place in a team which Fifa in its recent ranking ranked second of the world behind Brazil and above Argentina. The guy has a phenomenal international scoring record but at the same time plays off-form for a Liverpool team struggling for 4th place. Why?

There were only few efforts here to explain and agreed, it’s difficult and always up to speculation. But it is clear that the one argument repeated here was “He’s just not good enough”.

Only a few of you will deny that Milan had a decent first half of the season. He delivered and had some really good games (C. Palace, Newcastle). Come Christmas and the situation changed: injury, long-term injuries to Alonso and Kewell, and –IMO the most important – the arrival of Morientes. It was clear that Benítez wanted his star to shine, with the other strikers’ only task to support him.

It’s a heavy blow in anybody’s professional career if you realize that performing well and showing commitment are not the only criteria for being favoured. I guess that was Milan’s experience and frustration. He probably had the feeling not to be needed anymore, he possibly overreacted (CC final) and lost confidence. Instead of building up the lad’s strength and trying to improve the flaws of his game, the only thing Benítez reached was a loss of confidence. It is easy to say the guy is just cr@p. But as he shows with another team that he is not, I would say that the coach has to take responsibility, and a great deal of it.

Benítez never rated Milan and after the arrival of Morientes there was no longer the need to hide that. And for many of the so-called supporters it was a very safe ride to follow the coach and abuse an unwanted player. It seems Milan is an ideal scapegoat now for all the frustration of a not all too good season.

Good post mate, some good points

However don't totally agree that rafa never rated baros and that buying morientes showed a lack of confidence in baros. I think rafa does rate baros as a player but has a problem with his attitude. Once the rumours started last summer that barcelona were interested in baros and he was quoted as saying that he would like to play for them some day, i think rafa probably started thinking that baros wasn't in his long term plans. Then the alleged tantrum about not starting in the CC final probably sealed his fate. I'm sure baros will be sold on in the summer. Its the best time for him to leave as his exploits in euro 2004 are still relatively fresh in the minds of potential buyers and we'll get a good fee for him.

As far as the signing of morientes goes, i agree that baros' form has dipped since then. Although it was blatantly obvious to everyone, including baros, that we needed to sign a forward at the time (cisse injury etc). I don't see why baros should have taken this as 'that means rafa doesn't rate me'. The main reason baros hasn't scored more is the service. No one that has played up front this season has had a great goals-games ratio. Yeah i know people will say that he missed those sitters against everton and juve but the fact is that people were ripping him to shreds on here even before that.

Since christmas baros has got a lot of abuse from fans when they should be supporting him. He has a tremendous workrate and runs himself into the ground every week (unlike owen before him) so the least he deserves is our support when things aren't happening for him

I will be sorry to see him go in the summer if it happens.

by **A.B.** » Sun May 01, 2005 8:36 pm

Baros does work hard on the pitch in every game, he causes the opposition loads of problems. He wins free-kicks,corners and throw-ins for us and that gives us a chance of scoring, however all of that means very little when at the end of the day we lose even though we had countless chances,(Baros included).

Every striker misses chances but thats not what frustrates me when Baros misses them, its the fact that when he plays for his country he puts those same kind of chances away. But when it comes down to the club, he bottles it and misses chances he needs to put away.

For instance before our draw against Juventus was made he said he wanted us to play Juventus, I can only guess that the reason for that is that he wanted to prove himself. When the opportunity was given to him to put the game away in the second leg and ease our worries he missed a great chance, a chance that should had been turned into a goal.

Had he been playing for Czech Republic he would had put that way, but why can't he do it for us? That's what bothers me. His work ethic is great but when it comes to scoring goals he doesn't do enough of it.

by **Red Indian** » Sun May 01, 2005 9:06 pm

[stmichael @ May 01 2005, 19:37]

Great comment, i think it was the same for Fowler when Owen broke into the team, he had a few injuries and was no longer No1, it effected his confidence and i don't think he ever regained it. I think the problem is that every time Baros plays now he feels he has to prove that he is better or good enough to stay in the team. Although, he is a professional and he plays for LFC, it is about time some of our players released that they are playing for a big team with high expectations.

by **woof woof !** » Sun May 01, 2005 9:06 pm

john craig wrote:Since christmas baros has got a lot of abuse from fans when they should be supporting him. He has a tremendous workrate and runs himself into the ground every week (unlike owen before him) so the least he deserves is our support when things aren't happening for him

Haveto disagree with a couple of those points .

"A lot of abuse from supporters " ?

Unless Baros spends his spare time in footy forums the only abuse he would have heard was a groan when he missed another sitter,I would hardly call that abuse.

"He runs himself into the ground (unlike Owen) "

:laugh:

, Maybe he should take a leaf out of Owens book and save some of his strength for actually putting the ball into the back of the net .

I guess what "abuse" Baros does receive in this and other forums is borne out of frustration. We've seen him display his goal scoring ability on a regular basis for his national team and occasionally he has shown flashes of that ability whilst wearing a LFC shirt but unfortunately occasionally isn't enough ! .

Right now he reminds me of someone who would be more at home playing for Aston Villa , i:e they once won the Euro Cup but now seem happy to continually under achieve.

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