Liverpool FC Forum

by **taff** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:47 pm

Totally agree with Bigmicks comments about the lower leagues, every decade last century the same comment was the game is different now

Having seen Earnshaw for Cardiff I dont rate his footballing ability all that much and he does look odd but he does one thing not many other players in the league do and thats score lots of goals and he is totally natural at it

The weird thing is I dont think he is good enough but if he joined in Jan I would put money on at least ten plus goals by the end of the season especially if he gets on a run he is that type of player but dont expect much else just goals and a weird celebration

by **Redrider** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:32 pm

bigmick wrote:Who was that clown we bought from Oxford? Aldor, aalldro, Aldridge that's his name, knew I'd remember it. Useless. Didn't score that many did he? I said at the time, it's all very well scoring goals in the lower divisions but at Liverpool? replacement for Ian Rush? you must be joking. Thank god we found some mugs to take him off our hands, Real Sociadad as i remember. Useless there too, fans hated him. Alright he was top scorer in La liga but so what? Just could never get it out of my head that he'd played in the lower leagues. I remember his last game at Anfield when he threw his boots into the crowd. Must have been 'cos the fans all hated him. Total failure.

Heh, Bigmick, Is the Aldridge comment a wind up ?
His goal scoring record looks ok to me :
John Aldridge

Liverpool FC
1987-1989

POSITION
Forward

DATE OF BIRTH
Tuesday, 26th July 1960

PLACE OF BIRTH
Liverpool, England

DEBUT
Saturday, 21st February 1987 as a sub in a 2-2 draw at Aston Villa (Aged: 26)

CLUB CAREER
69 League apps (+14 as sub), 50 goals

SEASONAL RECORD: 1986/87-1989/90

Transferred on 27/1/1987 for £750, 000

Liverpool: 1986-1987 Played 10 Scored 2 goals (Division 1)
1987-1988 Played 36 Scored 26 goals (Division 1)
1988-1989 Played 35 Scored 21 goals (Division 1)
1989-1990 Played 2 Scored 1 goal (Division

Aldridge was a 20 goals a season man. Threw his boots in the Kop because he was a lad from the Kop, brought up in Woolton. Worked his way up the leagues the hard way, real pro', totally unpretentious and was living his dream to play for the Reds.
I don't think he deserves your harsh comments, infact I think you owe him an apology !!

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:45 pm

oh my god redrider do you not know how sarcasm works??

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:49 pm

Hey Red, you must be on what we call a reverse wind-up right? Aldo was probably my favourite liverpool goalscorer, even over Rushie, Robbie and Owen. Not saying he was necessarily the best, just my favourite. What a player. Sorry Aldo

While I'm on the case and just for the record, Ray Houghton was a fabulous player too.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:51 pm

jim_morrison_supported_liverpool wrote:oh my god redrider do you not know how sarcasm works??

by **gabbyh** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:30 pm

For me, if a player consistantly scores for Crystal Palace and West Brom in the top flight, it begs this question. What would they be able to do at a team like Liverpool? If they are nurtured right?
In my salad days when I was green and crispy, and Liverpool consistantly won trophies, the team was a mix of world class players and tryers.
In this day and age, footballers are prima donnas, if you have too many, the team doesn't gel, if you don't have enough, the team doesn't win much. Today's managers walk a tightrope, they earn their wages. Nannying the Diva's (not the divers!), the ones with no confidence at all but a lot of skill, the ones with a lot of confidence but not the skill (don't want to wreck them either, they can be the backbone of a team).
For goodness sake, when I hear talk of 'he doesn't have the class to play for Liverpool'. Did Tommy Smith have class? Did Alan Kennedy? Did John Toshack? Did Terry McDermott? Phil Neal?
They had skills that Liverpool as a TEAM, utilised.
Both Tommy Smith and Alan Kennedy scored a goal in a European Cup Final. John Toshack on his own was not a top class striker, but with Kevin Keegan (from Scunthorpe), he made a lethal strike force. Terry McDermott had a gift for running deep from midfield onto a pass and either scoring, or causing such mayhem in the box, that another player would score. Phil Neal? A steady Eddie. I suppose all these players had the gift of being tactically aware.
Am I soooo wrong here?

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:33 pm

Gabby that is one top post. You've put it better than me and I've had about six goes! Love the salad days line aswell. Don't be surprised if that crops up in one of mine in the future, (I'll leave it for a few weeks though so everyone thinks it's all my own work).

by **crazyhorse** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:40 pm

Great post.

In a nutshell!

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:05 pm

Ok fine. Well you have your team of Biscan's, Earnshaws and Savages.

And i'll take Gerrard, Alonso and Owen.

Lets put it this way, the game is far more technical and fitness based than its EVER been. The players these days are simply 5 times what they were 20 years ago. The great players are incredible. I've played against divison 2 players and i can tell you they're bloody good footballers. I can't begin to imagine how good Stevie and Xabi are now, the gap is ALOT bigger than people make out.

Especially when you have managers like Wenger and Benitez getting the best out of them tacitcally.

The fact is it doesn't matter how good tacitcally a team is, if anoter team has better players they can steam roll them just as that Man Utd treble side done in the 98 season unfortunately.

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:23 pm

I played against some good players myself Stu, though probably not as recently as you (I reckon you're quite a bit younger than me). Taking it as a given that you've also played at a good standard you will know that if a player drops down a couple of levels to say get fit, he stands out like a sore thumb, different class. On this we wouldn't have an argument.
Where we differ, is that I believe in the most part that players are a product of their environment. Playing with and against good players improves people immeasureably. I think Gabby's point about so-called 'class' players is a fair one, every team needs a heart, a pulse and an ambition that blokes who have played away at Scunthorpe on a wet wednesday night can provide. Teams also need class and ability, which is why not every bloke who has done the Scunthorpe experience can make the step up. My point is merely that SOME can. Also remember that in Earnshaw and Johnson we are talking about Premiership footballers, albeit only recent converts.
You've only got to look at International football to see my theory borne out. Some can make the step-up, some can't. Some look terrible at first then get it, some never get it. Everyones got to make a debut though, just like everyone who makes it at a big club needed someone to take a chance on them at some stage.
One last thing. I know the games moved on. Its quicker, more tactical etc. Tell you what though mate, the good Liverpool sides of the past would've held their own in this or any other Premiership. On that I reckon we must agree surely?

by **JBG** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:45 pm

I think Gabby and Mick are correct, although saying that I'm not saying we should sign Earnshaw!

All great teams need a few of mentally strong work horses to keep everything together. Obviously these guys need to be of a certain ability, but attitude and hard work is what they really put into the team.

If it was purely a matter of technique then Real Madrid would never lose a game.

by **115-1073096938** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:24 am

I played against some good players myself Stu, though probably not as recently as you (I reckon you're quite a bit younger than me). Taking it as a given that you've also played at a good standard you will know that if a player drops down a couple of levels to say get fit, he stands out like a sore thumb, different class. On this we wouldn't have an argument.

Where we differ, is that I believe in the most part that players are a product of their environment. Playing with and against good players improves people immeasureably. I think Gabby's point about so-called 'class' players is a fair one, every team needs a heart, a pulse and an ambition that blokes who have played away at Scunthorpe on a wet wednesday night can provide. Teams also need class and ability, which is why not every bloke who has done the Scunthorpe experience can make the step up. My point is merely that SOME can. Also remember that in Earnshaw and Johnson we are talking about Premiership footballers, albeit only recent converts.

You've only got to look at International football to see my theory borne out. Some can make the step-up, some can't. Some look terrible at first then get it, some never get it. Everyones got to make a debut though, just like everyone who makes it at a big club needed someone to take a chance on them at some stage.

One last thing. I know the games moved on. Its quicker, more tactical etc. Tell you what though mate, the good Liverpool sides of the past would've held their own in this or any other Premiership. On that I reckon we must agree surely?

Firstly i agree. When a player drops a few levels to get fit they stupidly stand out. But what i will say is they stand out at EVERYTHING!!! People seem to think Kewell is lazy. Well ok, for a top class player he is quite. But if you put him in say the third division i bet he works harder than almost EVERY player in that league.

Secondly i agree that players are a product of there enviroment aswell. Of this i have no arguement, i said a while ago i didn't believe in "natural ability" and this is one reason. why.

Where i disagree is you talking about work and ability. To me they are the same thing. Technical, mental and physical ability. Its a mix of players you need which perform certain roles. However they need to be able to perform a number of rolls. IE Butt can only really hold a midfield, Gerrard can hold a midfield and attack, Alonso is the same. He can hold and attack. Owen was a hell of a player as he could not only score goals but he could link up and had superb intelligence.

As for taking a chance i disagree. If you have the ability then you are good enough. I don't believe players suddenly become good. Owen at 18 was probably better than Baros will EVER be, you have to have a degree of ability there in the first place to step up. Earnshaw for me could become a better player, but never anything special.

As for your last point... i'd like to think so, but i'm not so sure.

by **adayinthelife** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:37 am

John Barnes' Granny wrote:All great teams need a few of mentally strong work horses to keep everything together. Obviously these guys need to be of a certain ability, but attitude and hard work is what they really put into the team.

I agree and Carragher is a good example as he is not blessed with natural ability but makes up for it with his determination and attitude.

by **adayinthelife** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:39 am

stu_the_red wrote:People seem to think Kewell is lazy. Well ok, for a top class player he is quite. But if you put him in say the third division i bet he works harder than almost EVERY player in that league.

That is a ridiculous statement. :laugh:

by **115-1073096938** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:43 am

I agree and Carragher is a good example as he is not blessed with natural ability but makes up for it with his determination and attitude.

Put Carragher in the third division and he'd ****** on 90% of every player in that league on every attribute.

Same goes for Kewell.

Its not a ridiculous statement at all. A question, have you ever played the game to a good standard?

Average division 2 players in our country are as skillfull if not more so than me if thats there weakness. If its there strength they'd make me look stupid.

Its comment like these that get my back up.

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