Liverpool FC Forum

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:47 am

While Rodgers has been unable to implement his own philosophy at Liverpool, the evidence suggests to me that he is determind to try go back to it AGAIN. Our best football came in his second season when we ditched this approach but it seems Rodgers is still making efforts to eventually play
how he wants us to play. Millions and millions later we are still missing many the pieces to succesfully implement it in my opinion.

Zone 1: The sweeper keeper

It amazes me that we look certain to retain Mignolet when its clear he can't do what Rodgers really wants a GK to do. Unless we have 3 at the back or a Midfielder dropping really deep, Mignolet's confidence will be shot if he is asked to play sweeper again.

Baffles me that we sold Reina when he was perfect for this role. I know the circumstances were difficult and so on.

Zone 2: Powerful CB and good technically gifted one (libero)

Its clear we don't have these players. Perhaps Sakho is the powerful one but we don't have a technically gifted CB.
Strange that we sold Agger and brought in Lovren when it took us further away from what Rodgers wants.

Zone 3: Deep lying playmaker

We've tried Gerrard, Allen and Lucas all in this position with some success at times. Feel we need an upgrade in this area though.

Zone 4: Wingbacks

Again, lots of money spent but Manquillo, Moreno, Johnson and Enrique haven't succeeded in these roles. Probably why we are going for Clyne.

Zone 5: Box to box midfielders

Milner, Henderson, Allen and possibly Coutinho at times would be expected to play this role. A large amount of pressing is required.

Zone 6: The Inside forwards

Rodgers just loves them doesnt he? We have Coutinho, Ibe, Sterling, Milner, Lallana, Marokvic and even Sturridge capable of contributing.

Zone 7: The Linking Target man. Explains why we were previously linked with the likes of Costa and are now looking at Benteke. People keep incorrectly assuming that Rodgers wants movement up front but his insistence on finding a target man type suggest otherwise.

People can read this and think its a load of garbage but I think this is what Rodgers ultimately wants and many of our signings suggest it too. He is once again trying to edge closer to this.
It won't surprise me one bit if we start the season in a 4-3-3 and look something like this:

Mignolet
Skrtel Sakho
Clyne Moreno
Allen
Henderson Milner
Ibe Coutinho
Benteke

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:38 am

If that is how we are lining up next season I'll be asking someone to explain the rules of Golf to me because I'll be finding something else to do of a weekend.
A midfield of Allen, Henderson and Milner? How utterly average can you get?

by **UvS xR4GEx** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:03 pm

Mignolet

Clyne Skrtel Sakho Moreno

Henderson Milner

Kovacic

Ibe Coutinho

Sturridge

I feel he's going for something like that, but I feel Coutinho/Kovacic/lallana will be fighting for the same spot with another winger/striker coming in.

by **johnbarnes** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:28 pm

Tiki Taka is a myth imo. I'd guess that Barcelona don't even know what it is!
Good 'ol Fashion pass and move dressed up as Emperor's new clothing.
BR is waisting his time if he can get LFC to play like Barcelona.
The philosophy just does not suit us and the players don't even exist in the market to play that way...
...Oh sorry, they do and they're call BARCELONA! We'd only have to shed perhaps 400mil to assemble that squad in the LIVER-SHIRT.
FSG are you reading this?

FSG & BR sold Tiki-taka football to a fan base that has seen football sent from the heavens. A lot of us chose to believe this. I didn't and still don't.

by **red till i die!!** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:55 pm

As J.B said above its just pass and move with a fancy name. Barca are excellent at it because of the amount of attack minded players they have. They always push to create chances whereas we use it to just retain possession. How many times have you seen Barca, in 3 passes go from one box to the other while we will put 20 on it and barely be in the opposition half. They have the players to play that way and make it exciting but we don't.

This is one of the biggest reasons rodgers has failed in that he still hasn't installed the players to effectively play that system. Our focus is on average players because he believes you don't have to be a superstar to play it. The whole concept of pass and move is founded on the basics of the game and as long as you can pass a ball 5 - 20 yds you fit in. If played effectively it eliminates the need for big physical players because if played correctly you won't be on the end of any tackles. As long as you can make those short passes and know how to move in a triangular formation then you fit in.

I personally think its an ego thing with rodgers in that if we are going to be successful then its about him and his system not the players. You need to have players in your side who can take on a lad or 2 and open something up or finish it out. Look at the difference in having suarez but since he is gone its become regimental. No one is capable of doing it or they are not allowed to risk it so we just keep looking to lay it off hoping someone gets into a better position and willing to take the responsibility on.

To see the players we are now linked with I don't see the standard improving. I had a look on the LFC site and compared sterling to ings. Both played the same amount of games but sterlings stats far outweigh ings. Goals are the bottom line and yes ings had a few more but he also squandered far more chances than sterling did.
Milner is a solid player and definitely good enough to be a starter for us. Also bags of premier league ex-p so there can be no excuses for him not adapting and fitting in to our style or the supposed style. As long as he isn't shackled he should make a difference.
Then I see the benteke interest and wonder WTF we are at. If he is a target man then its hoof ball ala heskey. He isn't imo that good on the deck and won't be busting a nut defending either. Tactics Tim is spot on when he questioned whether a player like benteke who feeds off crossing the ball will get on at a club that have the fewest crosses in the league. Had we of taking the approach of switching to 4-4-2 this season we would have got more from balo and lambert but we wouldn't so I don't see it happening with benteke.

We need loads of players but for the sake of consistency it would be wise not to repeat last years mistakes and bring in to many in the one go. Ings, milner and origi is enough on the freebie and gambling side so we should pool what ever cash we have and buy 2 game changers. if we have the reported 30 + sales (potentially a further 60 mil) we should have enough to get them. Arsenal are reportedly going to sign bender for 18 million and he is a player that would suit us.
We really need to be aiming higher than what we are currently doing.

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:02 pm

red till i die!! » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:55 pm wrote:As J.B said above its just pass and move with a fancy name. Barca are excellent at it because of the amount of attack minded players they have. They always push to create chances whereas we use it to just retain possession. How many times have you seen Barca, in 3 passes go from one box to the other while we will put 20 on it and barely be in the opposition half. They have the players to play that way and make it exciting but we don't.

This is one of the biggest reasons rodgers has failed in that he still hasn't installed the players to effectively play that system. Our focus is on average players because he believes you don't have to be a superstar to play it. The whole concept of pass and move is founded on the basics of the game and as long as you can pass a ball 5 - 20 yds you fit in. If played effectively it eliminates the need for big physical players because if played correctly you won't be on the end of any tackles. As long as you can make those short passes and know how to move in a triangular formation then you fit in.

I personally think its an ego thing with rodgers in that if we are going to be successful then its about him and his system not the players. You need to have players in your side who can take on a lad or 2 and open something up or finish it out. Look at the difference in having suarez but since he is gone its become regimental. No one is capable of doing it or they are not allowed to risk it so we just keep looking to lay it off hoping someone gets into a better position and willing to take the responsibility on.

To see the players we are now linked with I don't see the standard improving. I had a look on the LFC site and compared sterling to ings. Both played the same amount of games but sterlings stats far outweigh ings. Goals are the bottom line and yes ings had a few more but he also squandered far more chances than sterling did.
Milner is a solid player and definitely good enough to be a starter for us. Also bags of premier league ex-p so there can be no excuses for him not adapting and fitting in to our style or the supposed style. As long as he isn't shackled he should make a difference.
Then I see the benteke interest and wonder WTF we are at. If he is a target man then its hoof ball ala heskey. He isn't imo that good on the deck and won't be busting a nut defending either. Tactics Tim is spot on when he questioned whether a player like benteke who feeds off crossing the ball will get on at a club that have the fewest crosses in the league. Had we of taking the approach of switching to 4-4-2 this season we would have got more from balo and lambert but we wouldn't so I don't see it happening with benteke.

We need loads of players but for the sake of consistency it would be wise not to repeat last years mistakes and bring in to many in the one go. Ings, milner and origi is enough on the freebie and gambling side so we should pool what ever cash we have and buy 2 game changers. if we have the reported 30 + sales (potentially a further 60 mil) we should have enough to get them. Arsenal are reportedly going to sign bender for 18 million and he is a player that would suit us.
We really need to be aiming higher than what we are currently doing.

Not saying I agree with everything you've wrote their mate but good post all the same :nod

by **johnbarnes** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:34 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:02 pm wrote:
red till i die!! » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:55 pm wrote:As J.B said above its just pass and move with a fancy name. Barca are excellent at it because of the amount of attack minded players they have. They always push to create chances whereas we use it to just retain possession. How many times have you seen Barca, in 3 passes go from one box to the other while we will put 20 on it and barely be in the opposition half. They have the players to play that way and make it exciting but we don't.

This is one of the biggest reasons rodgers has failed in that he still hasn't installed the players to effectively play that system. Our focus is on average players because he believes you don't have to be a superstar to play it. The whole concept of pass and move is founded on the basics of the game and as long as you can pass a ball 5 - 20 yds you fit in. If played effectively it eliminates the need for big physical players because if played correctly you won't be on the end of any tackles. As long as you can make those short passes and know how to move in a triangular formation then you fit in.

I personally think its an ego thing with rodgers in that if we are going to be successful then its about him and his system not the players. You need to have players in your side who can take on a lad or 2 and open something up or finish it out. Look at the difference in having suarez but since he is gone its become regimental. No one is capable of doing it or they are not allowed to risk it so we just keep looking to lay it off hoping someone gets into a better position and willing to take the responsibility on.

To see the players we are now linked with I don't see the standard improving. I had a look on the LFC site and compared sterling to ings. Both played the same amount of games but sterlings stats far outweigh ings. Goals are the bottom line and yes ings had a few more but he also squandered far more chances than sterling did.
Milner is a solid player and definitely good enough to be a starter for us. Also bags of premier league ex-p so there can be no excuses for him not adapting and fitting in to our style or the supposed style. As long as he isn't shackled he should make a difference.
Then I see the benteke interest and wonder WTF we are at. If he is a target man then its hoof ball ala heskey. He isn't imo that good on the deck and won't be busting a nut defending either. Tactics Tim is spot on when he questioned whether a player like benteke who feeds off crossing the ball will get on at a club that have the fewest crosses in the league. Had we of taking the approach of switching to 4-4-2 this season we would have got more from balo and lambert but we wouldn't so I don't see it happening with benteke.

We need loads of players but for the sake of consistency it would be wise not to repeat last years mistakes and bring in to many in the one go. Ings, milner and origi is enough on the freebie and gambling side so we should pool what ever cash we have and buy 2 game changers. if we have the reported 30 + sales (potentially a further 60 mil) we should have enough to get them. Arsenal are reportedly going to sign bender for 18 million and he is a player that would suit us.
We really need to be aiming higher than what we are currently doing.

Not saying I agree with everything you've wrote their mate but good post all the same

Ditto.
When you analyse the way teams play, there is usually an enforced style / approach throughout the generations. Anyone old enough to remember Barcelona in the 70's-90's would have seen the same style of football they play today. Gary Lineker wasn't a target man for them, they passed and moved the ball with one touch football aka Tiki Taka.

All the great teams have a style of play; Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Ac Milan, Ajax, LIVERPOOL all have a style of play that can be traced back 30+ years.
This is why we all got excited when BR took us within grasp of The Holy Grail, because it was breathe taking. A merciless footballing pedigree which can be traced back to the days of Shankly.

(NOTE: But this was a team BR did not build; he just added very little. In fact only one of his signing in Coutinho matched up.)

But within that breathe taking season, we had a few breathe taking players. It wasn't just Suarez, albeit he may have dragged the team forward. REMEMBER S.A.S.A.S.A.S. It really was fabulous. Now we are looking to replicate this (or are we) with a manager who really has never built a world class squad that can challenge at the top consistently.

BR has too much admiration for the way other teams play; especially Barcelona. LFC admires NO OTHER TEAM but ourselves; we respect other team. There is the difference.

Although this thread isn't the right place. I can't help but feel that the passion driven, merciless, breathe taking style of football LFC has always played can only be built by an individual that encompasses all these attributes. Someone who has built a squad that can compete at the top level...

...THE KOP, THE CLUB, FSG, LFC along with MYSELF NEED JURGEN KLOPP to build such a formidable team. IMO

by **eds** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:31 am

It's hard to even define what our best XI is at the moment because of the amount of average players we have.

If we lose Sterling and Skrtel we are looking at something like this:

Mig

RB? Lovren Sahko Moreno

Henderson Milner

Ibe AM? Coutinho

Sturridge

Bench: Toure, Ings, Markovic, Lallana, Lucas, GK?

Priority is to bring in a quality striker (not convinced that we are doing that), a quality RB (we will probably end up with another kid) and a quality midfielder (looks like we might end up with this Kovačić kid) to fill that last midfield role.

Looking at it on paper, it's a very average side and will most likely contain 3 new faces (RB, Milner and new midfielder) so I'm sure the excuses of the team not gelling will come out by the Rodgers cult as soon as things start going inevitably pear shaped.

If Sturridge spends as much time as he did on the doctor's table last season, we are f**ked.

by **leeroy74** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:38 pm

johnbarnes » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:34 pm wrote:When you analyse the way teams play, there is usually an enforced style / approach throughout the generations. Anyone old enough to remember Barcelona in the 70's-90's would have seen the same style of football they play today. Gary Lineker wasn't a target man for them, they passed and moved the ball with one touch football aka Tiki Taka.

All the great teams have a style of play; Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Ac Milan, Ajax, LIVERPOOL all have a style of play that can be traced back 30+ years.
This is why we all got excited when BR took us within grasp of The Holy Grail, because it was breathe taking. A merciless footballing pedigree which can be traced back to the days of Shankly.

(NOTE: But this was a team BR did not build; he just added very little. In fact only one of his signing in Coutinho matched up.)

But within that breathe taking season, we had a few breathe taking players. It wasn't just Suarez, albeit he may have dragged the team forward. REMEMBER S.A.S.A.S.A.S. It really was fabulous. Now we are looking to replicate this (or are we) with a manager who really has never built a world class squad that can challenge at the top consistently.

BR has too much admiration for the way other teams play; especially Barcelona. LFC admires NO OTHER TEAM but ourselves; we respect other team. There is the difference.

Although this thread isn't the right place. I can't help but feel that the passion driven, merciless, breathe taking style of football LFC has always played can only be built by an individual that encompasses all these attributes. Someone who has built a squad that can compete at the top level...

...THE KOP, THE CLUB, FSG, LFC along with MYSELF NEED JURGEN KLOPP to build such a formidable team. IMO[/color]

Don't even know where to start deciphering that load of tripe.

by **johnbarnes** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:19 pm

leeroy74 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:38 pm wrote:
johnbarnes » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:34 pm wrote:When you analyse the way teams play, there is usually an enforced style / approach throughout the generations. Anyone old enough to remember Barcelona in the 70's-90's would have seen the same style of football they play today. Gary Lineker wasn't a target man for them, they passed and moved the ball with one touch football aka Tiki Taka.

All the great teams have a style of play; Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Ac Milan, Ajax, LIVERPOOL all have a style of play that can be traced back 30+ years.
This is why we all got excited when BR took us within grasp of The Holy Grail, because it was breathe taking. A merciless footballing pedigree which can be traced back to the days of Shankly.

(NOTE: But this was a team BR did not build; he just added very little. In fact only one of his signing in Coutinho matched up.)

But within that breathe taking season, we had a few breathe taking players. It wasn't just Suarez, albeit he may have dragged the team forward. REMEMBER S.A.S.A.S.A.S. It really was fabulous. Now we are looking to replicate this (or are we) with a manager who really has never built a world class squad that can challenge at the top consistently.

BR has too much admiration for the way other teams play; especially Barcelona. LFC admires NO OTHER TEAM but ourselves; we respect other team. There is the difference.

Although this thread isn't the right place. I can't help but feel that the passion driven, merciless, breathe taking style of football LFC has always played can only be built by an individual that encompasses all these attributes. Someone who has built a squad that can compete at the top level...

...THE KOP, THE CLUB, FSG, LFC along with MYSELF NEED JURGEN KLOPP to build such a formidable team. IMO[/color]

Don't even know where to start deciphering that load of tripe.

That's funny.

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